mega jolt help please...

[angliaant]

right now i know im probably just being stupid here but can someone sort of explain to me in laymans terms what the megajolt system actually does (what sensors it uses etc)
roughly how much is it genna cost overall?
does it differ from megasqirt?
and would i be albe to make it work on a baby zetec?
so a proper map would need to be done by a pro on a rolling road or can you get it pretty good yourself at home?
also where would i get that lil red box thingy from?

sorry for being soo dumb, just i copied the info on their website to print it and a 65 pages i think i will get shouted at:D

[angliaant]

just had another look over the website... i must have still been half asleep before:D

i think i will end up going for the TPS system, assembeled
so if i was to buy the tps system, the rev limiter and the shift light from
http://www.autosportlabs.com/index.php?currency=GBP

what else wold i need to buy?
a throttle position sensor,
a crank position sensor
coil packs,
EDIS module
and what else?
roughly how much is this lil lot genna cost?
sorry for being stoopid

[angliaant]

reading another thread in this forum maybe i would be better off with megasquirt?

[steely dan]

depends what you want to do :) megajolt is ignition only, megasquirt is injection (with ignition if you get the latest one)

davewrc was selling a whole megajolt setup (i bought it, then swapped it back for some engine bits as i bought an engine with one on already) price really depends on how much you can get the second hand parts for. build the main megajolt unit yourself is about 70quid, and you could pick up the rest of the bits for around 30 (if you know a good scrappie) or whole setups ready to go are about 150 (kits appear on ebay every now and again)

if youve already got a zetec your half way there.. as there is a trigger wheel and vr mount done, and to be honest thats most of the work fitting it to the engine :D ... in all fairness i think they're benifit is in complete DIY, once you start paying for someone else to map it it probably wont work out as cheap. that is your local rolling road will be faster at mapping their prefered system so the extra time it takes for them to do a megajolt costs more... not saying this is true for all rolling roads but it makes sense if they map one system day in day out and dont do yours... that said there is no reason why you cant build a half decent map yourself, obviously it might not be 100% spot on, but as long as it runs and dosnt melt the engine you can twiddle till your hearts content :D

[dangerousdave]

Thats pretty cheap that site :thumb: think i paid around £110 for mine with import duty from brent who designed the ecu.

As for the bits hit your local scrappy, grab the edis 4 module, crank sensor and coil pack from a 1.1 fiesta with single point injection (only the late mk3's the 3.5 as they are often called) and get the small tps from a zetec, you may even have one of them and the crank sensor and coil pack with your engine! Also you need to get the loom from the fiesta too, it makes it easier to make a neat job of it and also means the cables that need to be shielded are shielded as they were from the factory :thumb:

As said though, if you want to run carbs get megajolt, if you want injection get megasquirt and edis :thumb:

Also a rolling road will be able to map it as its just simply putting in the ignition values, the software is also dead easy to use, if your friendly with a rr they might even give you a printout of the values you need to put in for some queens heads therefore meaning you dont even need the session on the rollers unless you want it perfectly mapped to your engine!

[steely dan]

from this fellas (http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123979) experience id say that really, you want to map it as much yourself and then go for a final tweek, although the megajolt is fairly simple to map, unless the rolling road is used to doing them it will never be a quick as their most common ecu, and so cost a bit more in time (megajolt is said to be a bit clunky with full TPS when you live map). but to be fair, there is a fairly comprehensive set of maps if you search enough so it should never need more than a tweek.

when i finally get mine on the road, it will have a map for a 244 cam, slightly pulled back (for safety), i'll probably go to the rolling road just to make sure the carbs are setup and jetted ok, which they should be pretty close, and they can look at the map to make sure its not complete poo, then i'll tweek it as i go along... then if i go to next years RR day at TnR and they say its a bag of cack i'll get it re-mapped, but id like to try as much myself otherwise i might aswell just fit an emerald and let someone else do it :D

[alladdin]

one thing that i would suggest be remembered.
its just an ignition curve..........

now i know you can map it for all of the dips/tweaks of a highly tuned cammy motor but the way i look at it is this.

people get a motor ( lets say a pinto/ x.flow for argument) , they fit a 270 cam, then a ported head from joe tuners, then a set of webers "jetted for tuned x/f" ,
now in all this time they usualy just leave the stock dizzy in .............. and a dizzy isnt really very clever, it advances the timing the faster the motor goes .......

so i say to myself " how hard can it be to emulate a dizzy curve with megajolt map" or any ign only map for that matter.:dunno:

??????????????? of course having a graph of the std dizzy would help .

out of interest, are any std ign curves from ford...zetec or vx xe etc etc ecu's available anywhere

[steely dan]

ive got a workshop manual for an escort that has the base maps in for a xflow dizzy... but they are for a standard engine so probably not that usefull for a tuned one.. there was a thread that linked to a brilliant page about modifying dizzies to the right curve, that had loads of pics on about where you want it etc... and yes in all fairness a megajolt in 2D (no TPS or MAP) has to be pretty simple to design a map thats better than a dizzy.. little more complicated when you add a TPS as your mapping a 10by10 graph so 100 point variable with throttle load against ignition advance, but again, logically it should be possible to map on a common sense basis.. just wont be 100% spot on without the knowledge of a pro.

if you do some digging there are methods you can use to live map as your driving.. obviously with a passenger tweekeing the map.. just need a bit of stright and flat private road, a marked distance and a stopwatch. more time consuming but essentially the same.

[dangerousdave]

Mapping blind is easy, its only if you spent a few hours on a dyno with it that you would get it perfect as when you tweak the values you will see the power rise or fall either side of the optimum values. Mapping under the full load plot is easy too, just add in a few more degrees of advance to make it more responsive at light throttle (i think without checking my map!) :thumb: Also the fastest mine ever felt was when i had something crazy like 45deg advance at the top at full throttle :D

[angliaant]

okay cool wicked thanksguys, after a very messy start i didnt know if anyone would understand this thread:D
so im almost definately running carbs:) that means megajolt:)
so im looking at about a hundred quid for all the new bits if i use a rev limiter and a shift light:cool:

so basically i should be able to home map it myself alright but if i want a tip top map i should get it cloes myself and then let the pros have a go, it all depends on how well i get it myself i reckon;)

and i really need to get my lump before i work out what else i need:cool:, i gotta hunt me a zetec:D

thanks again for all the advice peeps, i love this place, people can even understand my half asleep ramblings :D

thanks

[dangerousdave]

£100 sounds about right for the bits, plus money for some wire/crimps/solder that you will need and also the other bits from the fiesta/zetec.

Map it yourself by all means, but it will only ever be a base map as such unless you have access to a rolling road or datalogging equipment via a lambda sensor. Alladdin has a map for megasquirt for a 2l zetec, if you get a screen print of the ignition values that should provide you somthing along the lines of what you need unless you can find a mj map for a zetec (there should be a few about).

Ps thanks to that link you put up i have just spent some pocket money and got the hard cut limiter board in the post and also the diodes i need to make my rev counter work from the coils :)

[angliaant]

Ps thanks to that link you put up i have just spent some pocket money and got the hard cut limiter board in the post and also the diodes i need to make my rev counter work from the coils :)
no probs at all matey, thanks for your help, glad to be able to return a favor as it were:cool::cool:

thanks

[angliaant]

i printed off a load of stuff to read, it really doesnt look that complicated at all:cool::cool::cool::cool:

[alladdin]

its not, but, there are a lot of minefields to step over. your going about it correctly tho, i think too many people try to install megasquirt /megajolt without ever reading about it at all:doh:

[dangerousdave]

Megajolt is simple, when i did mine there wasnt really the info about that there is now, its all got a lot more professional with the bits being in stock rather than made to order like mine was with a 3 week wait :thumb: Get yourself a decent wiring diagram and its easy as pie, make the loom up so its separate to the main car loom that way you can take it and put it in any other car should you wish to in the future :thumb:

I have pics and good knowledge of it should you need any help when you get to that stage and get stuck :thumb:

[angliaant]

okay cool thanks

[Shanksy]

it should be easier on a Zetec, my pinto needs a trigger wheel fitted to the crank pulley, should arrive any day will let you know how i get on fitting it.

[dangerousdave]

Got my rev limiter board the other day and all fitted a treat, the instructions on the site are a bit vague/confusing so if anyone needs help with it let me know. Also upgraded to the latest mapping software and firmware, so soon to install the switchable maps feature, fingers crossed if its instant switching i can use it as launch control :)

[Shanksy]

got some bits as well, trigger wheel and sensor.

[/URL][URL="http://imageshack.us"]http://uploads.turbosport.co.uk/getrempic3.php?url=http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6546/dsc00126fn1.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=501&i=dsc00126fn1.jpg)
http://uploads.turbosport.co.uk/getrempic3.php?url=http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6546/dsc00126fn1.9308b8df66.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=501&i=dsc00126fn1.jpg)

[dangerousdave]

Just a quick one, if anyone reading this and is going to do it needs a trigger wheel welded to a steel pulley and the excess machined out then give me a shout as i just got myself a nice lathe and mine has (about 2 years later) finished up a treat :thumb:

[Shanksy]

you lucky Ba$**** . Unfortunately my pulley is cast :doh:
I can see a bit of dodgy engineering looming :cool:

[dangerousdave]

Is it cast iron or cast steel? If its steel then you should be able to weld it unless im getting a bit confused because its late and i have been on the lathe a lot this weekend :D

Failing that then i guess just bolt it into the pulley somehow, maybe through the 3 spokes and then space the trigger wheel out from it with spacers?

[Shanksy]

it dosen`t look weld`able and may turn into a large blob :D
I`ll just stick with the bolt it together method. I dont fancy it flying off at 6000rpm :clint:

[wildo105e]

Looks like a pinto pulley ? I succesfully bolted mine together. If it is from trigger wheels then the hole is slightly to big. I welded it up and redrilled to match the crank bolt. This locates it centrally. Then when you have the missing tooth in the right spot drill right through the lot to put some locating dowels (accurately) into the edge of the pulley around the crank area to stop it spinning. Job done make sure it is accurate though any variations from sensor to wheel may cause errors.

After all that you could buy a kit from weber for £100:confused:

[Shanksy]

funny thats what I thought of doing, you may be right about the bolt hole, but mine seemed okay , maybe check it again tomorrow, got an EIDS module today and made a bracket for the sensor :)

[Shanksy]

Well I temporary wired it and it actually ran :dance:
but what about those CVH plug leads, my pinto ones wont fit the coilpack.
Anyone any suggestions there.

[dangerousdave]

Good stuff :clap:

For leads you need ones from a ford that uses that coilpack, the zetecs have a seal bit at the top for where they go into the cam cover, fiesta 1.1 ones dont have this and look like the normal ones :thumb:

[Shanksy]

Ahh.... right, uncle fester 1.1 will check those out :D
I mounted the coil next to the washer bottle the leads all reach from there, its actually the plug caps that are enormous. The megajolt is connected and working also, fired a map into it, think it was from the Caterham guy, fookin great no pinking revs right up to the limiter no bother now :woohoo:

[steely dan]

the big plastic caps you get some some plug leads can be taken off, so they look a little more stock. there are just a couple of snap fit things you prize open with a screwdriver.

been messing about with the software over the weekend and its all very stright forward. have got a few maps, and some other stuff, which once ive made sense of i'll post up.. mine will have the default base map for starts till i get the carbs tuned, then a mild one till its run in, and then hopefully something more advanced with the rev limiter shifed accordingly :cool:

[dangerousdave]

Dan il send you mine if you want as the standard one in the ecu is miles off i seem to remember and you might do more harm than good!

Use mine (and retard it a few degrees all over if your worried) it should be fine, both mine and darth's ran lovely on it :thumb:

[steely dan]

cheers for the headsup on the base map :thumb: i havent actually re-set the ecu yet so it still has the old map on (previous owner setup) which was for a slightly less tuned engine, unfortunatly ive lost the map thats on there so dont know what its like till i go to the car. it should be ok to start it and drive me home, and then i can play properly... whatever is on there im sure its better than my old dizzy, which was well suspect :D

[dangerousdave]

If theres a map for a xflow (detuned) on it then thats better than the ecu's base map! When you get to it pull that map off and save it, then load up the latest firmware to enable the switchable maps and rev limiter board (you have to buy extra so the rev limiter works!) to work :thumb:

[steely dan]

im not sure it has the revlimiter bit enabled as im not sure which version it is. i think its a V2, but wont know till i look at the board itself. there is an add on module that has hard cut rev limiter and shift lights which i guess i might need.

not sure if i can trust the map thats on there tho, considering it was on the engine that threw a rod moments after it was fitted :doh:

[dangerousdave]

I dont think any of them work the rev limiter without the new add on board which has only been about since feb i think :thumb: Also the shift lights are separate to the rev limit board :thumb:

Like i say use my map if need be, i know it works fine on a mild engine :)

[DarthVader]

My understanding is that the revlimiter board only works on V4 board - correct ?

[dangerousdave]

Wrong :D

Works on all of them, although its easier to plumb in on the v4 as the holes for the wires are all in the board whereas on v2 & 3 you have to mess about a bit. I can get pics and give instructions on how i did mine (v3 all wires inside the box) to help as they are a bit vague on the site :thumb:

http://www.autosportlabs.net/Hard_rev_limiter_1.2.0#Installing_the_Hard_Rev_Limiter

[DarthVader]

Thanks Dave, did u wire yours as per diagram ?

[dangerousdave]

Sort of, i followed the instructions lower down for the v3 but changed them to suit. My stuff is in red

Most ambitious wire everything internally:

Jumper GND connection to MJLJ GND from the gnd hole on the new board to the pin of the molex connector, anywhere you can get it (should be the top pin on the far right if i remember right!)

Jumper +12V connection to MJLJ +12V (14 gauge wire); as above but for the 12v supply (the pin below the gnd)

Make sure you use a thicker gauge wire (14 gauge) for MJLJ +12V power, as the +12v supply will supply current to the coil in addition to powering the MJLJ electronics.

Jumper trigger input on the new boardto REV_LIMIT output on MJLJ board 2nd pin from the left on the top row is the rev limit out pin, see below for what to do!

Cut the REV_LIMIT trace on the MJLJ board running from the ULN2003 to the REV_LIMIT connector pin. sounds confusing but all you need to do is cut the pin going into the molex connector on its vertical to horizontal bend and unsolder the vertical bit from the board and solder the above jumper trigger input in its place

Connect the Rev limit COIL output on the new boardto REV_LIMIT pin on MJLJ connector. basically solder the wire onto the horizontal bit thats left after you cut and unsolder the pin of the molex plug

The REV_LIMIT pin on the outsidewill now be the new COIL power supply.. so just simply take the coil power wire from the 12v supply where its originally connected into and wire it to this pin (again 2nd from left on the top row) in the molex plug and use the special clip things for the end of the wire to fit into the plug as per the other wires when you built the loom, you should have some spare if you bought it built?


Hope that makes sense if it doesnt il get some pics tomorrow to help :thumb:

[DarthVader]

:thumb: Thanks M8 - Will come right with your info

[alladdin]

i found a lot of that with megasqirt, its not that the info isnt there or isnt correct, its just that the writer assumes your as familiar with the system as he is:dunno: or at least thats the view i took.......

[wildo105e]

I think the nature of MS attracts people with a deep understanding of electronics. Understanding and explaining are two different things:D