View Full Version : How hard to fit a stage 3 head?
I'm thinking of buying a stage 3 head for my rst... Howver, I don't much fancy paying Powers loads of money to fit it etc. Bearing in mind I;m someone with virtually no mechanical skill or experience whatsoever, but am reasonably calable of following instructions, is it somehting I should be thinking of doing myself or am i just gonna wreck my lovely new head?
One of the most worrying bits is setting the cam correctly.. how hard is this to do? I've heard form a mate of mine that correctly dialling in a cam makes a massive difference to your engine... how do I go about making sure that it's spot on and obviously avoiding bouncing any valves etc???
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Mark.
Speaking from a lack of experience myself i reckon you could fit it yourself, get a vernier timing wheel if you aint got one and get the timing set on a RR. CVH`s are very picky about timing and it can make a huge difference even if its slightly out.
cam timing isn't for the faint hearted, you need a dial gauge to measure the full lift point of the cam, and a degree gauge to go on the crank so you can put the crank the correct position (marked in degrees) to time the cam at. You also need to know about TDC, BTDC, ATDC, BDC, BBDC, and ABDC. If your not mechanically minded, don't even think about timing the cam yourself, it can all end in tears soooo quickly! Fitting the head isn't a major problem for a DIY'er, doesn't matter what stage it is, they all go on the same way, but timing the cam is another matter.
HTH's http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
Thanks guys - I'm tempted to give it a go. http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/smile.gif
Wes - won't changing the head involve a certain amount of timing the cam anyway? Cos I'll have to remove it from the old head and stick it in the new one at in the correct position or would it just be a matter of slide it out and back in again??
Using the standard ford marks isn't really timing the cam in, this is simply making sure everything is alligned as ford intended i.e. crank at TDC, camshaft in overlap position on cylinder 1. Dialing the cam in is abit more involved http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
Fair enough... so I'd then have to get and get someone proper to set it properly, but in theory as long as I don't do anything too stupid I should be able to drive it round there rather than putting it on a trailer!?!? http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/laugh.gif
This is sounding more necouragin by the minute! http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/cool.gif
yeah as long as the vernier is in the middle position i.e. not advanced or retarded, it will be the same as the factory cam pulley, you'll be able to drive it like this to get it setup, but it may well drive like a bag of shite until then, depending on the cam chosen.
Cool, thanks Wes. http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/smile.gif
I've already got the cam in the standard head so that's a forgone conclusion! Got a vernier whell on there at the moemnt although i dunno how it's set cos I havent got the car at the moment.
One last question... IF it did go wrong, what am i likely to break... basically it'l lprobably just be the valves wouldn't it? maybe pistons with the valves hitting on them?
valves, valve guides, you can crack the head (in severe cases) damage pistons etc, can be an expensive "IF" http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
Hmmmmm..... best be well careful then....http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/clint.gif
thanks again Wes.
dangerousdave
19-05-2003, 17:29
Wes cant my bro time the engine??? Cos hes got the big gun and he did someone elses xr3i when they put a better head and cam on??
think that;s ignition timing dave.... assuming you mean a strobe gun? http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/smile.gif
I've got a plate from Powers from when my engine was built saying 10deg no vac which is apparently the setting .. or at least it was at the time with the ported head on it!!!
I think the ignition timing's ok but I really wanna get my cam dialled in - a mate of mine who races F1 side cars got andother 5bhp out of their fireblade engine just by dialling in the cam(s?) properly!
Cheers,
Mark.
dangerousdave
19-05-2003, 19:32
Well like i said he did some other blokes head and kent cam for him. Next time i see him ill have a word, see if he wants to do it in first place http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/smile.gif
Are you in any hurry to get it done??
He didn't dial that cam in David, he just fitted it, standard cam wheel was used (if i remember correctly).
Dave, thanks mate.. that'd be good.. i suspect he's probably seen enough of my car to last a lifetime though! Dunno if he'd have the dialling thingy though to be honest - i think it's really a very specialist bit of kit!
Not in any hurry mate.. the car's in bits being rebuilt down the road fomr me at the moment.. having all the rust etc cut out. http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/smile.gif
Cheers,
Mark.
dangerousdave
19-05-2003, 19:54
Do you not get a dial with the cam so that you can do it??
Mark where abouts are you getting the bodywork done and how much is it cos he needs to find a proper place to do his mk1 escort as the bloke who is...isn't 1 1/2 years later and its still bare metal and rust http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Do you not get a dial with the cam so that you can do it??
No, thats a degree wheel that goes on the crank, you still need a dial gauge and to know what your measuring to be able to use it http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
And if i was your bro i would have killed that fucking cock sucker if he'd had my car for 1.5 years and done nothing to it http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/mad.gif http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/mad.gif http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/mad.gif http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/wall.gif
DANTHEMANS2E
19-05-2003, 23:41
YOU CAN HAVE THE CAM TIMING UP TO 7 DEGREES ADVANCED THIS SHOULD BE OK IF YOU SET THE IGNITION TIMING(ADVANCED ALSO)MAKE SURE THE ENGINE DOESNT PINK YOU WILL HEAR IT IF IT DOES ITS LIKE HAVING BALL BEARINGS IN THE ENGINE
Dave - It's being done at WT autos in Sussex rd... basically chose them cos the guy there's a proper RS enthusiast.. he's got a few himself.. including a 10000 mile 3 door, and he was restoring his mrs S1 which is what caught my eye... and now he's got mine too... it's still taking a while though... probably been in there about 2 months so far cos they've been really busy with other stuff. (bodywork isn't their speciality). I probably wouldn't approach him just yet as they've kinda got their hands full with mine right now http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/wink.gif- I think they're starting to regret ever taking it on! I found a few other local places too of varying cost/quality! http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/smile.gif
And I gotta agree with Wes! http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/mad.gif
PS - cheers Dan.
Wes - will I need the degree wheel to remove/replace it in a new head?
Cheers,
Mark.
No Mark, it's is just used when dialing in the can on the vernier pulley, if you stick to the standard ford marking points it should be fine http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
Thanks again Wes.
I think I might just go for it when i get my car back!
Cheers,
MArk.
DANTHEMANS2E
20-05-2003, 18:47
JUST PUT IT AT THE NORMAL TIMING MARKS AND GET AN ALLOY PULLEY WITH THE DEGREE MARKINGS ON THE DIAL GAUGE ISNT ESSENTIAL
mark
get a stage 3 ported/big valve head from vulcan engines
get an adjustable vernier and set it to the standard marks from the ford timing wheel then get it all set up by a decent tuning company(M.A.D)
cheers nigel...
Don't vulkcan make the Power Engineering heads?
I've got the vernier and i don't think it should be too much of a problem.... unfortunately mad's abti far so i'll be cheading for P.E. or maybe BSW fpr the set up i reckon!
Cheers,
Mark.
mark
the head and cam are easy to fit using the standard settings
just get a tuner to set up the cam timing and tune it for you
M.A.D is only a few miles further down the m4 than p.e
Right heres a few pointers I picked up as I've just built my whole engine.
Make sure you get new head bolts and washers(ford standard) and obviously a new head gasket (ford standard).
Before taking anything apart put a spanner on the crank and put the mark on the notch of the pulley inline with the notch on the oil pump cover. This is Top Dead Centre and the pointer on the cam should also be approximately at the 12 o'clock position.
Now you can take the belt off and remove the dizzy, cam etc. Remmeber to keep the cam followers in the right order as they will have bedded into the specific cam lobe!!
You can either leave the manifolds on or take them off. If left on it can be quite heavy, especially if the turbo is still attached.
Using the order in the Haynes manual undo the head bolts and take the head off. If you need to tap it use a soft faced hammer.
Swap everything over in the head if you want or you can do it when its back on.
Make sure the block face is spotless, and make sure that the threads are clean. Cover the piston bores when cleaning out the threads so crap doesn't fall in.
Place gasket on and then the head, gently. Now comes the magical tightening procedure
1 - put oil on each of the threads of the head bolts and on either sides of the washers.
2 - Tighten all the bolts with you hand.
3 - Tighten to 20lbs/ft and leave for 20mins
4 - Tighten to 40lbs/ft and leave for 20mins
5 - Mark all the tops of the bolts with tipex at 12 o@clock position
6 - Now using a normal spanner/wrench tighten by quarter of a turn - leave for 30mins
7 - Tighten by another quarter of a turn and thats it.
Refit everything and make sure the crank pully is still at TDC. YOu can then put the belt back on with the cam pulley again back at 12 o'clock.
Rotate the engine by hand using the crank pulley, and look through the spark plug holes to make sure its OK. Use a straw or something down the hole so you can see the piston rise. You can watch the cam at the same time to make sure a valve isn't open when the piston rises.
This will be fine to get it started. Then you can get it set up properly.
Jobs a goodun'
Paul
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