View Full Version : 205 block rebuild question
bladerunner
19-05-2003, 22:16
One day i will pull my finger out and put my 3 door back on the road, but i suspect with nearly 60k on the original engine and some hard use in the past a rebuild is on the cards, at the moment the engine is quiet on start up but sounds a bit noisey at idle when its fully warmed up, i suspect its piston slap, so whats the best option with the original block ?, a straight rebore, or reliner with 4wd pistons, all advice gratefully received cheers.
depends if your just going for a freshen up or a power increase, anything over 330 bhp i wouldn't even entertain the thought of using the 205 block, no matter what anyone else says "my mate ran blah blah BHP on a 205 block" etc.
If rebuilding to around 330 bhp and it's a standard bottom end, then 1st get the deck face checked for straightness, and get the block crack tested, if all ok then rebore to +0.25mm oversize (make sure a deckplate is used when the boring is done) and a set of new 4x4 pistons http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
bladerunner
19-05-2003, 22:49
Thanks for the advice Wes, if the block will handle a genuine 330 i would be happy with that, i have heard the main brg housings need to be checked for alignement as well as the other areas you mentioned, when i eventually get around to doing it i did consider the relining option if the pistons were within tolerance, or is this a weaker option, i,m not seeking ultimate power, more driveability and reliability, my high speed kicks are all on bikes now,cheers.
for the cost of lining a block and the time and effort it takes to fit them, you'd be better off just getting a 200 block, for reliability sake, you know where you are then, if that makes sense !?! http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
bladerunner
19-05-2003, 23:02
Yes i know what you mean, i,m sure its been discussed before, but i,ve been offline for a while, so is the 200 block fitted to anything else in the Ford range, and whats a reasonable price for a good block.
IMA_Racing
20-05-2003, 00:14
I have always run liners in my engines...first 330bhp..current 450bhp plus.No problems if installed correctly.Remember the liners are a better metal than the original block...should cost around £120 to liner your block so very much cheaper than a £600 200 block http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/moon.gif
The 205 block has a flex rating of 380BHP.
My RS500 block has a flex rating of 780BHP like mine linered to .25...:D
Yes i know what you mean, i,m sure its been discussed before, but i,ve been offline for a while, so is the 200 block fitted to anything else in the Ford range, and whats a reasonable price for a good block.
The 200 block was fitted to the 4x4 sierra and escort cosworths. They are around £575 - £800 brand new, depending where you go (direct from Cosworth is cheapest). Second hand prices are around £200 - £300 i guess, but again you need to get the block checked over. Liners work well if done properly, just seems a waste of time to me when a good 200 block will do the job, less things to go wrong, more reliable http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
bladerunner
20-05-2003, 20:22
Thanks again for the advice, sounds like the liners are the easier, and cheaper option, about 20 years ago i had to get a v6 essex block linered, is the process the same now ?, or has technology improved, i work for a company that used to supply Cosworth so hopefully i can get some discount from them, so what should pistons cost me if i need a set ?.
can someone tell me whats involved in the lining process, was £120 for all four cyl then? does ur 420bhp saff run a lined200 block?
IMA_Racing
21-05-2003, 00:06
MrC my T4 powered 8 green injector 7.1-1 engine running 450BHP plus runs a RS500 block which is linered...i dont go anywhere without them..LOL....not many agree but fook em i am happy and i am ther builder/designer of my engine http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/laugh.gif
Derek_Burleigh
21-05-2003, 08:45
Beware!!!!
Linering is only any good if done corectly on the YB engine. If it's a cheap job then it isn't correct!!!
If you do not get it linered correctly (as BBR do it) then you risk a liner moving and fooking your whole engine.
Personally I would go for a new 200 cosworth block and start from there.
IMA_Racing
21-05-2003, 16:19
Derk.....please explain how the liner could possibly move.
Ask Tony to send you a pic of the blocks he has round the back of Turbosystems with slipped liners Phil, maybe then you'll see that it can happen http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
Stevenoz
21-05-2003, 16:51
Ok so i was considering a liner (on a cracked 205 block), cos im not loaded (hence liner) but i trust wes's opinion and as i cant afford to go round rebuilding engines 24/7 i'm gonna have to get a 200 block. The good news is that if i ever get a good job then i have a good startin point for a strong engine. http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/smile.gif
IMA_Racing
21-05-2003, 17:07
Wes....thats cause they were installed INCORRECTLY...I repeat all my Cossie engines run liners including current 450plus BHP one!! http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
They need to be stepped at the bottom to prevent slipping down...no way they can move up..LOL.
Think about F1 cars....WRC Cars.....run liners...Rover V8's etc etc etc etc...b0llox to the "but most are alloy block/head"..makes no odds speak to an ENGINEER...or even Mountune..although they use a very hi quality metal hence the £1000!!!Martin H's also runs liners BTW..!
Stevenoz
21-05-2003, 17:11
Wes, how do i get in touch with cosworth? is there a webshite i can visit? ta muchly. http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
Phil, please don't confuse multi million £ F1 engine building technology with what you have done to your engine, F1 engines are zero tolerance, use a few times and then throw away, don't think alot of cossie owners want to do that http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif And Martin H uses liners because he has too, his block is made out of aluminium, and would last 0.5 seconds on full boost without them.
Hey run liners if you want, i don't care, it's not my engine, it works for you, so thats all that matters http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
Steve, call Cosworth on 01604598300, ask for YB spares http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
FAST_FORD
21-05-2003, 22:17
Machine block for liners Ref: M437
For those customers who wish to have their own blocks linered we will gladly carry out this work. This allows blocks with cracked bores to be reclaimed. Customer's blocks will be inspected before machining to ensure success.
Price: £1,250.00 (Excluding: VAT at 17.5%, delivery and shipping)
thats from mountune!! cost ten times more than phils!
bladerunner
21-05-2003, 23:31
So Wes are you saying all 2.0 4x4 sierra,s have the 200 block ?, if so it must be unstressed in that application, and a good source for a used block, if i can find 1 in a scrapped car.
IMA_Racing
21-05-2003, 23:34
As i have put Gareth!!!...Its funny how all you people listen to your tuners..SPEAK to an engineer...i run 450 plus for fooks sake...i do realise you think i am stupid BUT i did do a lot of research into this..open your fooking horizons!!!!
Plus Gareth i am shocked by your responce seeing as you have made your own 8 injector inlet!..Perhaps we should talk to tuners and see the faults in your design!
To many wannabe tuners for my liking..i talk experience..when i say something dont work..like ARP stud/nut kits and copy gaskets..i talking from MY OWN EXPERIENCE...not from 2nd hand info!!!
Bladerunner, all 4x4 saph cossies and escort cossies were fitted with the 200 block from the factory.
bladerunner
21-05-2003, 23:53
OK cheers Wes, i thought it was to good to be true, i would have thought it obvious that the liner was positively located at the bottom, but i,m no expert, as for the best option ?, depends on the money really, if i can liner the block for £120, including boring,honing etc, and keeping the original engine number, it makes sense to me.
FAST_FORD
22-05-2003, 05:19
Plus Gareth i am shocked by your responce seeing as you have made your own 8 injector inlet!..Perhaps we should talk to tuners and see the faults in your design!
if you wanna! lol
FAST_FORD
22-05-2003, 05:21
and i didnt say i was against using liners! i think they are a good idea to be honest!
gareth (engineer)
IMA_Racing
22-05-2003, 09:37
Sorry mate!!!!!Just venting my fustrations on uneducated people about liners......i took your comment as though i had skimped..but for my application those where all that was needed....being stronger than the original block metal.
Don't know why you think i'm uneducated about liners Phil, there is a right way and a wrong way to fit them, i've seen the effects of wrongly fitted liners, i never said liners were bad full stop, just letting people know there is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.
And i'm not a wannabe tuner, i don't work on anybody elses cars but my own, i only offer advise from previous experince of work done on my own car, you aren't the only one to have built your own engine and learnt from the mistakes made http://www.turbosport.co.uk/images/smilies/grin.gif
dangerousdave
22-05-2003, 18:27
Exactly, how many engines (rebuilds) you up to now wes?? Oh and are you coming round on saturday for clares party???
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