Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
your emerald ecu can control water pump, you wont need any extra sensors as it will do it using coolant temp, its just a couple of extra wires and a relay,
but i wouldnt bother for 10 years now i've used EWP that run continuously after the cwp controller packed up
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
looks sweet!, well done with that!:thumb:
be sure to get some fresh air into em tb's no doubt!:cool:
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Well I've ordered an evalution-designs water swirl pot to run in the top hose, that will then allow the air/steam to be recirculated back to the header tank via the 8mm hose. As for the EWP, I'd much rather get it running with the standard pump and a thermostat, than run without a stat. If this cures the problem, then I will investigate electric pumps for a later date. I had sod all room for at the front of the engine as it is x-(
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
But the beauty of the EWP is that it can be mounted wherever you need it within reason.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Like I said, sod all room, and I'd rather get to the bottom of the underlying problem first. Not ruling one out just yet, I even ran a wire in the loom for an electric water pump, just in case 8-)
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grahamb Like I said, sod all room, and I'd rather get to the bottom of the underlying problem first. Not ruling one out just yet, I even ran a wire in the loom for an electric water pump, just in case 8-)
Yep, I agree, try and find the underlying problem seems like the right way to approach it.
Maybe the Duratec is demonstrating for being put in a Fester.......
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
I'm at Bruntingthorpe on Friday with the Fiesta, for a cover shoot for Fast Ford magazine. So I'll put the radiator back together, and hopefully the swirl pot will have arrived by then. To be on the safe side, I'll leave the thermostat out, and I'll see how it runs.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
As you no doubt know Graham , the coolant system works better with a bit of "back pressure" in the water , so how about taking the centre out of a stat and just fitting the outer piece?
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Quote:
so how about taking the centre out of a stat and just fitting the outer piece?
sounds like good advise
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Looking at the thermostat whilst sat cross legged on the garage floor with bits of car all around me (like you do) theres no where on the stat to drill any holes in to. The stat sits very deep in the thermostat housing, and is sealed off with an O-ring. The actual area to drill in to would be impossible to get a 6mm drill in to. By all means, post me a pic of a modified Duratec stat, and I'll try to emulate the holes.
Also, on the end of the stat, there is a metal disk, that is pressed in to the inside of the cylinder head. As the stat opens, this disk moves with the stat, and opens a new channel inside the head. I'd rather leave it as is.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Quote:
Also, on the end of the stat, there is a metal disk, that is pressed in to the inside of the cylinder head. As the stat opens, this disk moves with the stat, and opens a new channel inside the head. I'd rather leave it as is.
arh yes it has a by pass stat, when the stat opens it opens one port and shuts another off, best left alone
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
I discovered that one of the two rear engine steady brackets broke at Shelsley Walsh. But then I'd literally only tack welded the steering rack mounted bracket together, which is why it failed. I had only planned to get the car mapped, not drive it with it fitted, but I forgot I'd just bodged it. :P
The new one is far better, though it is still just a temp measure. The torque limiter needs to be a lot lower down, and ideally, mounted on the rear of the gearbox. I intend to do this properly, but it'll do for Friday.
http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/pictures/20101012_2.jpg
http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/pictures/20101012_1.jpg
There is a small section of tube inside the box section, to prevent it from crushing when the bracket is bolted to the steering rack mount.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
No difference with the top swirl pot plumbed in.
Same as before, overheats on tickover, raise the revs and the temp drops, drive the car and the temps stabilise.
?????
Ran her up to about 110mph on the return straight, all seems to run OK. Bonnet bulged at the rear, but no harm done.
Fitted filters for the day, as following the photographers car, threw up tonnes of grit and stones off the Bruntingthorpe surface, and the engine would have been fooked if I hadn't.
Had a drag race against the 4x4 Fiesta Cosworth, Photographers 530D, my friends M3 (15yr old car with 320bhp) and my Subaru Legacy Diesel, and I came last but on my 2nd and 3rd laps wrung 120mph out the Legacy at the end of the 2mile straight, and it was struggling to reach that. Manufacturers claim of 126mph is wildly exagerrated.
Didn't use the fiesta in the thrash as she's still not fully mapped, and running with one driveshaft too long.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
The white bag inside the car is a cover over the photographers flash unit.
http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/pictures/20101015_2.jpg
This is how the engine is today with the swirl pot plumbed in (top of picture)
http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/pictures/20101015_1.jpg
My car will be on the cover of Fast Ford in next months magazine.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Slightly off topic and out of date. found this whilst having a sort out of my files. :)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...hilclimber.jpg
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Thats on my desktop background now. :thumb:
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
excellent. glad you liked it....it was the only car i bothered to seek out at ford fair......and have a good perv over ;) if you want the hi res image ill happily mail it to you.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Yes please. Ok to use it on my website?
Youtube video from the photoshoot at Brunters. You can see the water temp drop as I increase the revs from tickover (950rpm).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtPFLtAjks
Another link just incase the embedded video doesn't work: http://bit.ly/9sWcIV
V.Busy at work at the moment, so not able to get out in the garage to try to sort it out. No hurry, first event isn't until next March. Only four months contract left to run though, so I may / may not be able to afford to compete next year anyway, but keeping that out of mind for the time being.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grahamb Yes please. Ok to use it on my website?
I'd be more than happy for you to use it there :) ill sort that out for you in the morning (2nd)
Ben.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Thanks Ben. Just downloading it now. 8-)
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Drained and pulled the radiator out last night, and I'm now busy cleaning everything following the coating in concrete dust from driving round Brunters behind the photographers car. Not to be repeated. Luckily soapy water brings the hoses up a treat, and the jubilee clips also benefit from being washed, as they're full of grit too.
The sensor housing is off to Altiss for some TiG welding. I've removed the pressed steel pipes that fed the heater, and the 8mm bleed pipe, and these will be TiG'd close.
I'm also blocking off the original sensor mounting hole on the rear, as that'd sprung a leak at Bruntingthorpe, where I'd fitted a bung to seal the hole.
I'll fit a 1mm restrictor to the swirl pot vent hose when I put it all back together, and then I'll see if the overheating is cured.
And I believe that Fast Ford is out possibly this week. Look out for a red Mk1 and white mk6 Fiesta on the cover.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
fame at last, but well deserved considering the work you put into this little beast
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Had the sensor housing TiG'd yesterday at Altiss.com
I can now run it without the rubber bungs blocking the holes off, which saves some more weight.
http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/pictures/20101122_1.jpg
I'll dip it in caustic soda solution to give it a clean.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
There's obsessive , .......and then there's Graham! You miss nothing mate !
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Wow! That mk1 really got me inspired building my own. Thanks for posting it :)
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Fuel sample kit arrived (dry break connector). Bought it fromwww.Plays-Kool.co.uk
Fitted the radiator back on the car, and its ready for testing with a 3mm restrictor in the swirl pot return hose.
http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/pictures/20101223_1.jpg
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
just read this from the beginning and what a car and such a credit for the attention to detail love it loads and well done
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
[QUOTE=grahamb;1742079]Fuel sample kit arrived (dry break connector). Bought it fromwww.Plays-Kool.co.uk
Fitted the radiator back on the car, and its ready for testing with a 3mm restrictor in the swirl pot return hose.
[QUOTE]
Just make sure that dry break is fuel compatible Gray. There are a lot of cheap steel ones out there that are for hydraulics but the seals swell and leak with fuel.
Just a friendly warning.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/pictures/20101228_1.jpg
Already responded to Matt, but this is a worthwhile concern, and I had to check once Matt raised it with me.
The Aeroquip parts supplied are rated to 7000psi, and the only thing I can find that they say they should not be used with, is brake fluid. So these should be ok for 3bar fuel pressure. 8-)
The red/blue Speedflow -6 anodised part sits in line with the current fuel system, in the engine bay.
The smaller aeroquip part, with the black rubber dust cover, screws in to the side of the Speedflow alloy housing and is left permanently on the car.
The larger aeroquip part, pushes on to the smaller dry-break part when a fuel sample is required.
A rubber hose (not in the picture) screws in to the end of the connector, and allows the fuel to be drained off.
I shall rewire the relay in the control box, so that I can override the ECU, as that currently controls the fuel pump. If a litre of fuel needs to be drained, I need to run the fuel pump for a couple of minutes I'd have thought (not tried it yet) and running the take off with the engine running, isn't allowed.
I need to be careful with the ECU override function though. If I have an accident the ECU wont be able to turn off the fuel pump. I dont think that the MSA has really thought this rule change through. They dont mention how fuel is to be drawn out of the car, so I'm assuming that I need to be able to run the pump to produce the sample.
Apparently the really serious guys drain fuel between runs, and replace it with chilled fuel, so this may be another possibility once I've plumbed the dry break connector in and rewired the fuel pump.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
you should be able to get a litre of fuel out in about 15 seconds,
so do we taking your going to run in the british or a nation A championship?
the daft thing about this fuel sampling malarkey is off the record the scruits are told to avoid fuel testing because it costs a fortune and is dammed difficult to get done!
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Hoping to do the British Sprint Championship this year Graham. Depends on how the work pans out. Current contract only runs until end of Feb 2011.
Ran the engine last night, after fitting a 2mm restrictor to the swirl pot top hose. Will run her up to temp today to check for leaks and see if the overheating has been cured.
If this fails, the stats coming out. x-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JXRwAih71M
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Ran her up to temperature today, and the same condition exists.
I tried clamping the swirl pot return to stop the water bypassing the radiator, and that made no difference.
So I'll remove the thermostat and see what happens.
It must be the design of the radiator. I'll chat to Radtec in the new year to see what can be done. It could be a new radiator is required.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
My cunning plan is as follows:
Remove the radiator, and turn it over, so that both the inlet and outlet ports are at the thermostat end of the engine. (they're both on the sensor housing end at the moment)
I'll have the bottom radiator outlet removed, and blanked off, and the outlet welded back on to the bottom end of the radiator so it exits from the side of the end cap.
This will allow me to route the hot water from the sensor housing, across the width of the rad using the 32mm alloy tube, to the top inlet.
And I can plumb the thermostat housing (inlet) in to the bottom of the rad, with a couple of 90 degree rubber hoses.
That ought to do it. I'll drop the rad out tomorrow and see if Altiss can modify it for me.
The problem with the existing setup is that the thermostat housing is fed from a hose that runs up and down across the width of the rad, and the water pump isn't designed to pull water through a pipe, its there to circulate the water in the block.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Radiator is done. I'll collect it today. Pics to follow.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Radiator is in, and almost ready for testing. Just a couple of jubilee clips to do and I can fill it with water.
http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/pictures/20110106_2.jpg
http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/pictures/20110106_1.jpg
Fits ok, no issues with clearance, lots of room around the alternator for the new bottom hoses to run.
In an ideal world, I'd go back to square one, and design the rad without the horizontal split, and then I could run the hot water from the top of the block straight in to the top of the rad, and do away with the ally pipe that runs across the length of the top of the radiator.
I'll test it at the weekend.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
crossing my fingers for you graham but TBH i thinkit wil be exactly the same as before
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Graham crossing my fingers for you graham but TBH i thinkit wil be exactly the same as before
I've no idea whats going on if it is the same Graham. Please share your theories before I end up spending any more money on this irritating problem.
Is it because I've split the rad? So no matter how I route the water, its not going to circulate?
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
as long as there is a head of water i.e the pumps near the bottom of the cooling system and theres a decent amount of water above it the pump will displace water as it should irrespective of which way round the rad is or its design, because gravity will do the work for you of making sure the pumps well supplied, you have ruled out having too much water bypass the rad so it cant be that, so that leaves us with two possiblities, either the waterpump impeller slips on its shaft, something thats VERY common on diesel mondeos and transits not to mention quite a few vw, although all of theses suffer cooling problems at high rpm and appear normal at low rpm, so your problems unlikely to be the pump.
in an earlier post you said the engine has a two stage/bypass thermostat, your problem most likely relates to this in some way, the stat is a normal stat but with an additional disc on one end, what should happen is as the stat opens to allow coolant to circulate through the rad the extra bit on the end shuts off an internal waterway, if that internal waterway doent get shut off the coolant takes the path of least resistance, which guess what isnt through the rad! unless your revving it hard at which point the pumps pumping so hard some of the coolant has to go through the rad,
so whats wrong? well either the stat itself, or theres something wrong with the plumbing relating to the stat or its housing and the coolants simply finding another path avoided the rad,
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
I reckon its the first theory in your post thats the explanation of the problem. Because there was no head of water above the height of the pump, it could never have worked. I was running the water from the outlet on the bottom of the radiator, upward to the height of the rad, across the width of the rad, and down to the pump.
When I ran the engine last week, this pipe itself was getting hot, even though the bottom of the radiator was cold. Therefore, the water was stagnant in this pipe, or at least it was being expelled by the stat in the wrong direction. So at least this confirms that the stat was opening (which I'd already tested)
I'm hoping this cures the fault. I dont want to run it without a stat, simply because its a two stage stat.
An electric water pump is on the cards, as the final attempt to cure the overheating at tickover, but that'll be used to supplement the mechanical one, not to replace it.
And thanks for sharing your knowledge again Graham. :D
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
you havnt actually changed the head of water though, the upper most level of the coolant that is above the pump and thats all that matters, how the water gets to the pumps irrelavent,
the only way to increase the head of water is to move the pump down or radiator/header tank up
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
I'll just have to suck it and see Graham.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
If you do go the electric pump route, I would be very hesitant to supplement the mechanical one. A friend out here did that and fried his head.
We reckon the mechanical one was just causing cavitation when the electric one was installed
I have had good results removing the mechanical and just blanking off the housing
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
As I mentioned before Graham, if you do need to go leccy pump route then Matt's has worked a treat, Steve Broughton swears by them.
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Its all connected up and full of water. I'll run it this afternoon if I get permission.
So, where's the best place for me to fit the pump? At the sensor end, or the thermostat end.
And I presume it has a 32mm core like the rest of the system?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa4WlDhY0Ps&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grahamb So, where's the best place for me to fit the pump? At the sensor end, or the thermostat end.
And I presume it has a 32mm core like the rest of the system?
Bottom outlet of radiator going into the thermostat housing, yes it is 32mm as standard with various adapters in the kit in case you need a different bore