Old Fords Sprint Championship

[windy]

I made some noises on here earlier about starting a dedicated Old Ford Sprint / Hillclimb championship. Having asked a few championship organisers I have just had a reply from the Midland Speed Championship organisers:

"Hi Graham,

We discussed your proposal for a new championship class at this
evening's committee meeting.

While we are not clear about the true level of demand, we have decided
to give you an opportunity to demonstrate this.

We are not going to amend the championship regulations for this season.
If you register for the championship this season you will have to
register in the Sports Libre Class. However, if 5 or more contenders
register in the championship expressing interest in the proposed Ford /
Rally car class then, at the end of the season, we will present awards
for this class as if it had been an official part of the championship.
The trophies presented will be identical to the championship class
awards. You will still be eligible for awards in the Sports Libre class
in which you are registered. Obviously if we have a good entry, we will
give appropriate consideration to formalising this class for next season.

On the other hand, if less than 5 competitors register in the
championship expressing an interest in this new class, then we will not
give out any additional awards, and we are unlikely to consider adding
the class for next season.

So, the ball is in your court. It's up to you now to define how you
want the class to work, and to drum up enough interest to convince us
that it is a viable proposition.

I hope you will find this offer satisfactory.

Best regards

John Phoenix"

So how about it then? I guess the suggestion is to run to the MSA rules for the time being which means all of us spread across the various classes, not just Sports Libre, there are other classes too.

I would suggest you all email John Phoenix individually to determine which class your own cars are eligible for if you are not sure. The rules for the Championship can be found at midlandspeed.org.uk

Also I could do with some help to publicise this & to help organise things if it gets off the ground.

[Retromotorsport]

Graham (windy) has been badgering the Midland Speed Championships Organisers to run a class that is only open to Older Fords, so that they can run in a fairer class system, ie a 8valve 1600 isnt up against a modern 16valve 1600,

this is a cracking idea and one that I fully support


This is what Graham first wrote..................

"I have a Vauxhall engined group 4 MK2 escort which is competitive in its class for rallies. However when you try to enter it into sprints / hillclimbs there are problems because it doesn't appear to be eligible for the Modified production class, well for some of the events I do anyway. The rules for engines are very poorly defined in the Blue book which means at some events the organisers interpret the rules a different way & I have to enter the Sports Libre class with cars like single seaters on slicks. Obviously a heavy rear wheel drive escort has no chance of being competitive against this type of vehicle so it's a bit of a pointless excercise to turn up & try to win.

Having realised there are quite a few other people in my situation who are being put off from turning up at events because they cannot run competitively, I am in the process of trying to persuade some championship organisers to create a class for these type of cars.

If we can persuade the MSA & championship organisers that there is a need for some new classes to cater for this modified type of vehicle then we have some weight to our cause.

So if you are interested in competing in your modified Ford let me know & I'll pass on your interest to the people that can make things happen. A brief spec of your car to include engine type, capacity & mods to suspensionetc is all i need at the moment.

Watch this space."


So come on people, without your support this won't happen, its a blinding oppotunity to all get together and race against each other

[markb]

Game on. I'm up for this what's John's e-mail address and I'll send him something later on today?

[Retromotorsport]

here you go Mark....

homepage...
http://www.midlandspeed.org.uk/

And contact John....
John Phoenix: Championship Co-ordinator
coordinator@midlandspeed.org.uk

[markb]

Thanks Gary. I'll get writing later today!

[avenger penguin]

I would like to help where possible, doubt my car would be capable of racing and doubt I could afford it, but would be more than happy to help with anything.

[Retromotorsport]

I would like to help where possible, doubt my car would be capable of racing and doubt I could afford it, but would be more than happy to help with anything.

Around £60 for each days sprinting... and if your cars got an MOT you can sprint it ...

[mk1matt]

I to would be very interested in this.
Is it held at just one venue?
Is it far?
And how many meets a year?

[Sideways]

This gets my support I cant see me doing a full championship, but may do one or two local events.

I will email John tommorow when I get a free minute at work

cheers
Steve

[Retromotorsport]

I to would be very interested in this.
Is it held at just one venue?
Is it far?
And how many meets a year?

Matt have a look here..............

http://www.midlandspeed.org.uk/venues.htm

[FAL]

Sprints and hill climbs need even more classes like a hole in the head. If you don't like current speed event vehicle regulations, join in the campaign to get them changed (the MSA GRs were created by people with no real knowledge of production based cars and the same applies today, with no progress towards a democratically-elected Motor Sports Council). Witness their hairbrained proposals for the future of rallying, which they have been forced to withdraw - but dont expect hybrid cars to survive indefinitely in club level rallying.
In the meantime, where are all the Escorts that could dominate both the 2000cc Roadgoing and Modified Production classes? (or 1801-2600cc in the peculiar south west - another reason why there is no room for new classes - the existing ones still haven't been properly cleared of regional variations!).
Gurston Down hill climb 2000cc modprod is dominated by Escorts. Lets see a few more out in the south east and the midlands! North Weald has just been saved for sprinting from the Sunday market mob - get the entries in!
But I'm afraid you wont get a favourable response too often to any complaint that classes should be adjusted to suit your car, not vice versa.
That's fundamental to all motorsport - and the more popular speed events already suffer from organiser' pandering to "one make" classes when a wide class structure already exists.
2000cc Escorts can win under existing class regs - any hill climb and a lot of sprints. Get out there!

[windy]

The problem is that most 2000 cc escorts do not have their original engines or suspension & they get put into Sports Libre which isn't a competitive class.

Yes I agree the MSA rules are not helping to encourage people out into the motorsport scene. There must be lots of special cars about that just sit in garages unused for most of the year because of this.

The reason for my idea to create an OSF class is that it will encourage these type of cars to get out there. Everyone gets a chance to enter any type of car, modified or not, in a category that we determine our own rules for. We have yet to decide whether:
A) a handicap system or
B) a new set of technical rules
is the best way to determine the class structure.

So if you are up for this I'd suggest you contact John Phoenix at the link posted above, let him know your interest in an Old Skool Ford category, send off your registration fee & get those entries to the events sent off ASAP.

To those who have offered to volunteer their time to get this off the ground I am very grateful. Once I get the OK to start moving things forward further I will calling upon you to offer some more assistance.

Cheers

Graham

[markb]

i think i need to see this blue book (or is that just a massive headache waiting to happen? maybe i'll just refer to Gary ) .. i have a 2000 cc escort (with non original engine) but my understanding is that it's generally be class c.

[Retromotorsport]

Mark... Class C racing... sprinting is a mine field in classes...

Keith, it because of the regional variations... differing class structures and the way the Classic Ford scene is moving that this Championship is needed, YB Cosworth engines are becoming just as popular a pinto.. and you know that to run a BDA is expensive, blow a Zetec up and its £200 for a new engine... blow that Wilcox BDA and its out for 2-3 seasons ..

This is a forward thinking idea... An all commers sprint... No one will be turned away on grounds of engine displacement,position, type or make.. and by turned away, I mean, not put in a class to strugle with single seaters running 3L Judd engines and the like.

This could be the same as the TRCC ... which was won by a Class D car in 2005 ... but everyone is happy in that championship, no-one whinges, everyone helps out, And the Marshals at Brands came into the bar at the awards and gave up a substantial ammount of larger to all the competitors... reason, for providing the best racing all year long, they didnt do that to the Britcars that were also at Brands that day .

It has always been argued that there are too many championships... one way of making sure the lesser surported one's are phased out is to open new ones, and if the new ones take off and competitors come over from other less well supported championships to a lively and buzzing one. Then that a winning formula.. bigger supported championships of fewer numbers.

This is an Idea to get non-competitors into the sport. And that is something i will always whole heartably support.... getting new blood, because without new blood the sport will die, and you know that its in decline.

[mk1matt]

Most of the venue's seem quite away away

[Retromotorsport]

Most of the venue's seem quite away away

Thats part of the fun, you get a nice drive in the early hours of the morning.... admiring glances from other early drivers... etc

[Quarterless]

This looks good. I'm very interested, as I don't fancy sports libre. Just got to get the car built!

[mk1matt]

Thats part of the fun, you get a nice drive in the early hours of the morning.... admiring glances from other early drivers... etc

True
I should stop being so

[Graham]

i'm inlined to agree with an earlier post, that last thing that sprints need is yet more classes, what the classes are in need of is to be split on the basis of valve number as well as cc,

we often already have 17 plus classes for a mere 100 car entry which is silly, overhauling the class structure to take valves into account would mean old fords could stay competitive withing class without having to resort to BDA/BDX and other silly money engines

[Retromotorsport]

Graham, i think that is why windy has come up with this idea... as for years some people have been shoved in with the upper clases as they havnt got BDA/BDX money ... but have got Cossie money. Zetec, duratec etc... and have always been put off of sprinting because they will be up against the single seaters.

I agree there is too many classes and champion ship and as you say 17 classes for 100 cars .... 5 cars in a class, this championship has the oppotunity to unite some cars that are spread out in different classes, not through power, but just because their 16V 2L isnt a 23k BDA

[windy]

Sent my entry off. Cossie Matt doing the same. 2 group 4 Escorts so far, one Mk1 Escort & a Fiesta zetec. Anyone else going to get off the sofa!

[andypipe]

Sorry, already commited for the season. May try to get to some rounds though

[Sideways]

Mines in the post Graham
all being well l shall be doing 3 sisters in April

[Retromotorsport]

Mines in the post Graham
all being well l shall be doing 3 sisters in April

top

[windy]

Sideways, have you decided what other rounds you are going to do yet?

[Sideways]

top

even the wife thinks its a good idea which makes a change

Sideways, have you decided what other rounds you are going to do yet?

not to sure yet Graham, we'll have to see how things work out, but I wont be doing the ones that are a long way away.

[grahamb]

Hello all.
Interesting thread, close to my heart really.
I've been registered in Sports Libre in Mid Speed for the past four years.
[My Mk1 XR2 has a 2.0 Zetec on throttle bodies, with around 165BHP, featured on my www.zetecinside.com web site.]

Even though I'm in SL, I still have many 1sts in class awards sitting at home, and I even won the Sports Libre class in 2003, finishing runner up for the last two years.

So, instead of saying "ooh, I'm scared of a little competition from the single seater boys", get your slicks on, get your entries in, and come and have a play!

As for the Ford class, I may be tempted. I'm already registered in Sports Libre this year, but if the committee is willing to give awards based on the quickest ford, I'm up for it.

[windy]

Hi Graham,

I think I missed you at the rounds I did last year. They were early in the season at Harewood, Croft & then the dreaded Shelsley. Which ones are you doing this year then? I'll try to make a point of getting along to some of them.

Looks like I'm in http://www.midlandspeed.org.uk/Contenders_Libre.htm

Is the Steve Wilson in our class the photographer? I was speaking to him at the Lotus Show the other day & he now has a Lotus Elan 26R to compete in.

[Graham_S1]

gary.. great points

I'll admit now that I know nothing about these classes etc. For instance could I put standard xr4x4 in to particular class?

sounds like getting the existing classes would be a long term change involving many peoples input. however, getting one extra class setup first would be a great way to get more people into it. then when the classes or finally decided (or even before then ), the once "newbies" who started out might want to narrow their choice down to a particular class, and yes, would bring loads of fresh blood in.

if I was starting out, I wouldn't care who beat me. there will always be someone quicker than you, and always someone slower. popcorn:

[grahamb]

Hi Graham,

I think I missed you at the rounds I did last year. They were early in the season at Harewood, Croft & then the dreaded Shelsley. Which ones are you doing this year then? I'll try to make a point of getting along to some of them.

Looks like I'm in http://www.midlandspeed.org.uk/Contenders_Libre.htm

Is the Steve Wilson in our class the photographer? I was speaking to him at the Lotus Show the other day & he now has a Lotus Elan 26R to compete in.

I had a reduced season myself last year, due to the new sprog, but this year I'm aiming to do 7 rounds, starting at Shelsley on 14th May, and including Cadwell (entry acknowledged).

I so wanted to see your escy in action last year, was gutted to hear about the Shelsley incident. Was it the top S? Did it do a lot of damage?

Unsure about Steve Wilson, where does he normally photograph? Not a name I recognise in Sports Libre. We should have fun this year. I've fitted an escort pedal box to the fiesta to get it to stop quicker. I'm running quite a hybrid, rose jointed suspension, throttle bodies, lots of work, but she puts a big grin on my face each time I drive her.

[windy]

Yes did quite a lot of damage coming out of the top S. Something to do with the car being a bit wider than the road at the time & as you know with vertical grass banks on either side there isn't much room when the cars going sideways. It needed the shell on a jig & 25 tons to pull it straight. Cage saved the shell & me so quite pleased to get out of it without a scratch or ache. All the hard work is done & I'm just waiting for the warm weather to do the paint. A couple of weekends work to put it all together again. As the saying goes "Old fords never die, they just get faster"

[grahamb]

Nick Gresty rolled his XR2 at the same event didn't he? Wasn't a good weekend for Fords. Did you see the pics from Croft last year? Your Mk2 looked awesome in the rain.

[windy]

Yes I think that was on the Saturday, mine was on the Sunday. Yes got the pics from Croft & I remember the big puddle on one of the bends that stayed there all day. It was certainly fun.


Update: John Phoenix at Midland Speed has had a few entries filtering in now. There WILL be a class for Old Skool Fords to score in the overall standings of the Championship for 2006. He has enough entries to create a class I think. However, there won't be a dedicated Ford class on the day at events YET, so people will need to run in the usual classes defined by the current Midland Speed regulations on the day. As I mentioned, next year things will likely change for the better & we will have our own dedicated class assuming the Old Skool Ford class becomes popular.

To everyone:

I am being asked to define what an Old Skool Car is. The championship co-ordinator needs a rule on this set so that he can determine eligibility. What cars are we allowing & what is the minimum age requirement? Do they need to be rear wheel drive only? Your input please?

Currently on the list I have:
1) Ford Anglia
2) Ford Escort MK1
3) Ford Capri
4) Ford Escort MK2
5) Ford Cortina MK1 & 2
6) Fiesta MK1 & 2 ? I know they are front wheel drive & quite young! Should we allow them in? (undecided but there is interest)
7) Any other cars eligible that I've missed?

Also Points scoring. Is everyone OK with using the simple handicap system? Read the Midland regs for the pre 75 class for more info on this. Note: I don't want to get bogged down with rules on tyres, engine size, modifications etc. This will make things too complicated.

Thanks for your continued input & interest people

Graham

[Sideways]

Graham,
I would say anything pre 1981 as a cut off date for old school motors, ie the last year the mk2 was available, this would include the mk1 fiesta but not the mk2 version.

ps get some pics up of you competing at croft, or anywhere else for that matter

Cheers
Steve

[Retromotorsport]

I agree... production of the car model and mark must have started pre 80,

So thats mk1 and 2 escorts, but not 3's.. capris, fiestas etc are in..

Or should it be anything 25 years or older that way it rolls on, ...

The Ford Over 25's Championship

In a few years that would mean the 3dr Cossie is eligible and G4 and G6's

[grahamb]

Wicked. My calendar of events this year is
Calendar this year is...

May 14 Shelsley Walsh Hillclimb
May 27 MIRA Sprint
June 17 Cadwell Park Sprint
July 1 Shelsley Walsh Hillclimb
July 16 Curborough x2 lap Sprint
August 13 Barkston Heath Sprint
September 17 Cadwell Park Sprint

Here's a few pics from Curborough last year, setting a new PB (37.27s)

[windy]

[windy]

[grahamb]

Graham, were you out at Croft lastg weekend?
Or are you out at Aintree this weekend?
I'm still fitting my new brake upgrde. Just a bit more plumbing left to do.

[Cosnada]

What about my Mk 2 Granada?? It is officially a 1983 facelift model but MK 2'S were first made in 1977 / 8. Will I still be eligable?

The car is no longer used for the road - track only.

What are the regs for modified?

Regards,

Scott.