Japanese Engines In Escort

[M11rf]

I'm in a dilema, and need some guidence...

I wanna fit another engine in my escort.

It is gunna be a Japanese engine due to the availability over here.

I am thinking either a Toyota 4AG, or a Nissan SR20.

I'm leaning towards the 4AG as i like the look of the engine over the Nissan, but at the same time i don't want to be disapointed with performance...

The SR20 will cost around the same, maybe a little more.

Any other engines you can think of... or any comments on these 2 engines?

[PaulAlex]

What sort of power are you hoping for?

[sambo]

Why not buy a kit car instead? lol

[wildo105e]

SR20DET for me had a nissan pulsar gtir and a 200sx touring for me loved that engine 200+ bhp as standard don't know why most opt for the 200sx 1.8 earlier engine

[terry]

sr20 is ok but very tall engine

[Mk1_Deano]

As said it does depend on what power your looking for.

the 4AGE is only 1600 so is a relatively small compact unit.
Are you thinking 16valve or 20valve?

i know these engines pack a punch for what they are and that they are similar in design to the BDA engine. decent power whether carbed or on standard injection is achieveable, 180bhp ish reliably. they can be turbo'd although an import version here is the 4AGZE which is supercharged and this is a good base for a turbo 4AGE.

If you go this route try and find a scrap corolla AE86 because it will have the rwd T50 gearbox which will bolt stright up to any 4AGE, a scrap car would have an engine, gearbox and all the ancillaries too. I know you can buy a bellhousing here to mate a 4AGE to a type 9 gearbox but this may not be a viable option for you.

Obviously you would need to fabricate engine & gearbox mounts, i'm not sure how the T50 sits in a standard gearbox tunnel. New prop, speedo etc. there is a mk2 cortina from australia that runs a 4AGTE with a supra gearbox so that may be worth looking into.

Running a fwd corrola 4AGE on the standard injection manifold will mean you will need to either fabricate or find a rwd water rail. But also the inlet will be at the back of the engine so you could source a rwd one or add some pipework onto this across the back of the engine.

The dizzy on the 16v can be converted to work as a full dizzy and not just the trigger mechanism however, the 20v version has its dizzy on the back of the head and the bulkhead may need modding if using a 20v version. this is if using carbs.

if you search for 4AGE on google you will find some information more info on the engine and i know there are 3 versions of 16v all identified by the colour of the writing on the cam cover;

blue and black- blue top, early production 3 ribbed block. large ports.
red and black- red top, supposedly most powerful, 7 ribbed block, oil squirters under pistions. large ports
red - same as red and black but not as powerful due to small ports.

I'm pretty sure its that order, its late lol.

The main issue with this engine is the sump, because its front bowl and escorts have rear bowl. so you can either dry sump it or mod the standard tin sump (the more cost effective option). I have a pic of a modded sump for a 20v 4AGE:



I am planning a 4AGE install into my mk1 so have been gathering as much information as possible myself so i hope this is of interest to you. its taken me ages to type this all out
I also have a small collection of mk1, mk2 escort 4AGE engine bay pics if you require them

[M11rf]

What sort of power are you hoping for?

Not after mega power, just want something that will move as move as and when needed. I don't really wanna fit the engine and then spend loads on it to get the power up.

As said it does depend on what power your looking for.

the 4AGE is only 1600 so is a relatively small compact unit.
Are you thinking 16valve or 20valve?

i know these engines pack a punch for what they are and that they are similar in design to the BDA engine. decent power whether carbed or on standard injection is achieveable, 180bhp ish reliably. they can be turbo'd although an import version here is the 4AGZE which is supercharged and this is a good base for a turbo 4AGE.

If you go this route try and find a scrap corolla AE86 because it will have the rwd T50 gearbox which will bolt stright up to any 4AGE, a scrap car would have an engine, gearbox and all the ancillaries too. I know you can buy a bellhousing here to mate a 4AGE to a type 9 gearbox but this may not be a viable option for you.

Obviously you would need to fabricate engine & gearbox mounts, i'm not sure how the T50 sits in a standard gearbox tunnel. New prop, speedo etc. there is a mk2 cortina from australia that runs a 4AGTE with a supra gearbox so that may be worth looking into.

Running a fwd corrola 4AGE on the standard injection manifold will mean you will need to either fabricate or find a rwd water rail. But also the inlet will be at the back of the engine so you could source a rwd one or add some pipework onto this across the back of the engine.

The dizzy on the 16v can be converted to work as a full dizzy and not just the trigger mechanism however, the 20v version has its dizzy on the back of the head and the bulkhead may need modding if using a 20v version. this is if using carbs.

if you search for 4AGE on google you will find some information more info on the engine and i know there are 3 versions of 16v all identified by the colour of the writing on the cam cover;

blue and black- blue top, early production 3 ribbed block. large ports.
red and black- red top, supposedly most powerful, 7 ribbed block, oil squirters under pistions. large ports
red - same as red and black but not as powerful due to small ports.

I'm pretty sure its that order, its late lol.

The main issue with this engine is the sump, because its front bowl and escorts have rear bowl. so you can either dry sump it or mod the standard tin sump (the more cost effective option). I have a pic of a modded sump for a 20v 4AGE:



I am planning a 4AGE install into my mk1 so have been gathering as much information as possible myself so i hope this is of interest to you. its taken me ages to type this all out
I also have a small collection of mk1, mk2 escort 4AGE engine bay pics if you require them

Thanks for the detailed info mate. Much appreciated. And the picture too.
I don't want to go Turbo as i like N/A much better. Super charged maybe, they have the engines here, but they are more expensive!! I have an engine in mind already with a RWD gearbox fitted. So the FWD vs RWD problems wouldn't affect me.
My main issue is spending quite a bit of cash to get the engine and put it in, then not be satisfied with it... and have to spend loads more to get it upto what i want. That's why i thought the SR20 might be a better engine. BUT I like the look of the 4AG, it's lighter, and i've never heard a bad word against it...

[sholdowa]

I've heard rumours that the Lexus v8 will fit...

[MR tee]

How about this?...Mazda 13B rotary ,spotted at the Race retro show. Something different !

[M11rf]

Very different! But very expensive!

And I don't know anyone that knows a bean about rotary engines, so if it goes wrong, more money...

I did think about a rotary actually, but not sure is viable, a 4AG is a more sensible option I think on my budget.

[4drmatt]

SR20DET for me had a nissan pulsar gtir and a 200sx touring for me loved that engine 200+ bhp as standard don't know why most opt for the 200sx 1.8 earlier engine

sumps... one's steel and one is alloy I THINK... presumably joe public are willing to weld steel but not alloy. could be wrong though

[muckerbarry]

Mk1_Deano,

thanks for the write up, any chance of a few more pic's of the 20V sump, and the engine bay shots of 4AGE in escorts?

i'm building a MK2 rally car and i'm 95% sure ill fit a 20V 4AGE, the only thing that i'm really concerned about is the water outlet at the back of the head, it looks huge!
what did you do with this or are you using the 16V?

[Mk1_Deano]

Mk1_Deano,

thanks for the write up, any chance of a few more pic's of the 20V sump, and the engine bay shots of 4AGE in escorts?

i'm building a MK2 rally car and i'm 95% sure ill fit a 20V 4AGE, the only thing that i'm really concerned about is the water outlet at the back of the head, it looks huge!
what did you do with this or are you using the 16V?

Looks like my post has generated quite a bit of interest. lol.

To be honest i'm still planning my 4AGE installation, as a student, time and money is hard to come by, plus the car needs sorting. i've gathered alot of information about the 4AGE 16v but not the 20v but the main difference is the head.

The sump pictured was taken from here:
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/drif...k2-escort.html

The sump issue is a problem but with the picture previously posted and some taken from the site aforementioned mods can be quite easily done, this is the hardest bit i reckon, so i've been saving it for last Also the sump is steel so can quite easily be rewelded.

With the 20v engine the dizzy is located on the back of the head and in a rwd layout it will foul the bulkhead. so you could either make a mod to accomodate this, or go fully indepentant ecu that would take the ignition off a trigger mechanism elsewhere. I'm sorry i cant be more informative, because i am focussing on a 16v install and will retain the dizzy mechanism which is located on the side of the head.

The issue with the water outlet, the blocks are the same on both the later 16v and the 20v, both having a 7 ribbed block and oil squirters under pistons. Now i know that the AE86 corolla water outlet/ rail will fit onto a fwd 4AGE as both are 16v but i am unware of if there are any clearance issues with the 20v head. Having said that there are some AE86's that do run a rwd 20v so i presume its a straight swap, just dont take my word on that.

Another thing you may also be interested in is that the 20v comes with independant throttle bodies for each cyclinder (4 in total) which is quite good. And i know that an adapter plate can be made to mount them onto the 16v head as a relatively cheap upgrade for going N/A

Just to add to my long post, pictures of 4AGE in mk1/mk2 escorts engine bays from various sources.







If you need any more information i'll do my best to help.

Cheers

Dean

[mr.mk1]

Im doing the CA18DET conversion, its a very strong engine, and has a great oldschool look to it, allowing my car to look a bit more 'period'. SR20 are an ugly engine but there is no doubting their abilities! Turbo, NA or on throttles.
Rotarys are awesome, light, small, can sit them waaay back in the enginebay, and screw 400HP out of them no worries, but yeah, expensive.

[muckerbarry]

Thanks again for the info Deano,
I’m not concerned about the distributor at all because ill be using an aftermarket ECU, the thermostat and water outlet was my only concern.

After months researching this with no real results I discovered this excellent guide this morning while looking for something else!

http://www.rollaclub.com/board/?showtopic=14024

It looks simple enough, if/when I get around to installing one of these engines ill post a guide here.

[Vxlgsi]

stick a vauxhall 16v lump in it

[seventynine]

stick a vauxhall 16v lump in it

why? are they readily available in his part of the world?

[M11rf]

why? are they readily available in his part of the world?

You are right... I would love an XE in there. It's a cracking engine, but impossible! (without a bag of money)

Mk1_Deano, all the pictures on that link aren't working - Bandwidth Exceeded!!

[4age_mk2]

i have fitted a 4age in my rally car
would be a big 4age fan as i have been driving ae86,s for years and were the most relibile cars i have owened
only mod's are lighted flywheel, cams, port/polish head and omex spark on the rolling road 160bhp and 125 pounds of torqe
fitted up to a type 9 box using a ae86 bellhousing

[qcadta]

how about a mazda 1800 with 6 speed out of an mx 5?

[M11rf]

i have fitted a 4age in my rally car
would be a big 4age fan as i have been driving ae86,s for years and were the most relibile cars i have owened
only mod's are lighted flywheel, cams, port/polish head and omex spark on the rolling road 160bhp and 125 pounds of torqe
fitted up to a type 9 box using a ae86 bellhousing.

That looks well... where did you get the cam covers from?

how about a mazda 1800 with 6 speed out of an mx 5?

Too late!! I've bought this today... Fitting next week...



On the subject of MX5 engines, I know someone who is fitting one and has had to have to bulkhead cut to fit it... Didn't want to do that!!!

[Mk1_Deano]

Mk1_Deano, all the pictures on that link aren't working - Bandwidth Exceeded!!

Damn i just checked and your right, came up the same for me too. They were working a few weeks ago though.

Nice buy are you going to run injection or carbs?

Good luck with the install and keep us posted

[4age_mk2]

more up to date pic:

[M11rf]

Damn i just checked and your right, came up the same for me too. They were working a few weeks ago though.

Nice buy are you going to run injection or carbs?

Good luck with the install and keep us posted

Going for Throttle Bodies I think, from the 20v. When i can find some, just missed out on a set yesterday!!
Pics next week...

[hansgti]

more up to date pic:

Thats a very nice looking engine bay that .
Here is a pic of mine , just fitted 20v throttle bodies, it sounds like a bda now

[hansgti]

1

[Mk1_Deano]

Here is a pic of mine , just fitted 20v throttle bodies, it sounds like a bda now

Very nice setup mate How are you controlling the fuel injection? Any pics of your sump, engine mounts etc? what gearbox are you using?

[hansgti]

Very nice setup mate How are you controlling the fuel injection? Any pics of your sump, engine mounts etc? what gearbox are you using?

Standard T50 gearbox, transmission tunnel doesnt need widening or any help from a hammer
Sump is cut , still has front bowl, cut it back a little to suit crossmember , im running the standard ECU with a couple of tweaks, dont believe the hype it wont run with out standalone ECU, it does, and it goes well, lots more midrange and topend on it now, lost some off the bottom end, but the cars light enough to respond in traffic situations with out dropping 2 gears, pound for pound one of the best engines around, revs to the moon and some more, theres also an 1800 cc conversion that can be done using the 7A block.

If anyone wants engine mounts or 20v ITB manifold etc to fit the 4age in an escort PM me.

These engines can be had quite cheaply these days, what with the price of cars on the floor atm in the uk, http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=142417
MR2 with T+T 400 quid.
M11rf has just fitted one in his car and by all accounts he 's well happy with it, he's promising ITBs very shortly.

[seventynine]

coming soon to a cortina near you

[M11rf]

I keep promising some pics... I will do tomorrow - honest!

Throttle bodies will be fitted in the not so distant future too... Hansgti's car sounds like an animal! Like a BDA rally car... It sounds well

[IainRS17T]

Do any of you have any experiences of the 1.8 or 2.0 Nissan 200sx engine (and box?), or any pics/threads you can point me to...
I'm looking at fitting one in my RS1700T replica (RWD I hasten to add...) and have been reading this thread with interest.
Didn't Alister MaCrae's Mk2 have one of those fitted?
Cheers,
Iain

[mr.mk1]

http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123471
Heres a CA18DET install, im doing one too, but not this far along.
Many SR20DET ones have been done in Australia.

[M11rf]

4AG install...

The clutch is hydraulic and needs sorting with either a twin cam pedal box, or make your own...



A high pressure fuel pump is needed



Sump kept at the front, bowl cut back a little to make it fit



It was cut just before the sump nut



My engine doesn't sit too close to the bulk head, about 2 inch away because...





...because it can't go any further back for the brake master, it's almost touching as it is



Engine mounts bolt to the cross member in the same place, no need to modify the cross member





My radiator cound do with moving forward a little, and it will be a mod for the future, as the fan is very close to the pulleys



And there she is...



I am going to fit 20v throttle bodies in the next couple of weeks, for 2 reasons:
They sound awesome, but more importantly (really??) they will allow the fitment of a brake master cylinder and servo.
Car is running on std ECU at the moment and i'm reliably informed with a few tweeks, it will run on throttle bodies.

[IainRS17T]

Thanks for the heads up Mr Mk1. I'll follow with interest!
Cheers,
Iain