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Thread: torque ?

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    What curb ;-) Decade Plus User FF_Mark's Avatar

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    Question torque ?

    Not really sure how to word this...

    Is 200nm @ 4000rpm more than 200nm @3000rpm ?

    or is the rpm not a factor ?
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    Re: torque ?

    200nm is 200nm, rpm is not part of it

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    Re: torque ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Roberts View Post
    200nm is 200nm, rpm is not part of it

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    Re: torque ?

    Torque and speed give power

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    What curb ;-) Decade Plus User FF_Mark's Avatar

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    Re: torque ?

    so how come a Mondeo 2.0 TDCi with silly amounts of torque gets waisted by my S2000 with fook all torque
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    Re: torque ?

    less weight, gearing and more bhp = more work done. If you make 150bhp @ 2000rpm you have loads of torque, if you make it at 9000rpm you have less torque for the same power.

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    Re: torque ?

    Quote Originally Posted by FF_Mark View Post
    so how come a Mondeo 2.0 TDCi with silly amounts of torque gets waisted by my S2000 with fook all torque
    Fasten a caravan to both of them and see what happens then.

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    What curb ;-) Decade Plus User FF_Mark's Avatar

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    Re: torque ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Roberts View Post
    Fasten a caravan to both of them and see what happens then.
    I'd still waist the Mondeo but I'd have a fooked clutch too
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    Re: torque ?

    bhp is how hard you can hit a wall with a hammer, torque is how big your hammer is.

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    Re: torque ?

    Quote Originally Posted by popuptoaster View Post
    bhp is how hard you can hit a wall with a hammer, torque is how big your hammer is.

    Not really,
    Its more like troque is how hard you can hit the wall with a hammer, and bhp is how many times you can hit it per minute.
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    Mechanic

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    Re: torque ?

    Quote Originally Posted by FF_Mark View Post
    I'd still waist the Mondeo but I'd have a fooked clutch too
    Try 4th gear roll ons from about 2000 rpm and see what happens

    BHP sells cars
    Torque wins races

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    Re: torque ?

    I'm not going to race a car whilts towing a caravan, in fact I'm never going to tow anything with my car, so I'm happy with it thanks

    I was only asking as someone said that the same torque at higher revs was worth more than lower revs.
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    Re: torque ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    Not really,
    Its more like troque is how hard you can hit the wall with a hammer, and bhp is how many times you can hit it per minute.
    bugger, thought i understood it! lol

    just get something with a really big engine, that'll work.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User markb's Avatar

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    Re: torque ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cr500dom View Post
    Try 4th gear roll ons from about 2000 rpm and see what happens

    BHP sells cars
    Torque wins races

    i've never really understood the statement torque wins races...
    if that's the case then how come f1 engines aren't engineered differently?
    I can see how loads of torque all over the place makes for a good, drivable and flexible road car though.

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    Re: torque ?

    Check these out:

    Horsepower

    Torque
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    Re: torque ?

    I was first taught that power is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far back you shunt the wall! Simple and misleading but chuckle-worthy.

    I am no professional engine builder (though have designed a few specs!) but love my theory and especially the physics of it all. Bearing in minds its been over 10 years since last being taught I make the odd mistake so don't shoot me down - plus sorry in advance if this turns into one of my famous (on other forums at least!) essays

    Race engines/vehicles are tricky things to figure out but its really down to two very simple things (generally speaking - some race applications are different):

    You want an engine producing as much torque over as wide a range as possible, mated to a set of gear ratios that will mean a gear change brings you back down onto the appropriate part of the rev range for you to be within the peak torque zone - hence peaky engines have close boxes, and huge torque turbo + multi cylinder engines get away with longer boxes as it makes putting the torque to the ground easier as torque is a turning force, making gears longer gives reduced turning resistance to effectively less toruqe over time (its already starting to get complicated - sorry).

    That little picture with the cylinder is actually perfect for showing why more cylinders = more torque!

    As you can see the peak torque isn't held for long. On a 4 stroke 4 cylinder engine one of the pistons will be in that peak area every 180 degrees - and only gives good torque output for 90 of that!

    This means for the say first 45 from TDC and last 45 before BDC little torque is being produced and the next cylinder in sequence will not be producing good torque for another 45degrees after it hits TDC.

    (may be earlier or later, longer or shorter but these figures are for arguements sake and relate to that image. Turbo engines give more compression, fill the cylinder quicker and give more Vr hence more torque)

    Now if you take a 6 or 8 cylinder engine its very simple to see that the engine is simply producing peak torque for a great percentage of the engine cycle - take an 8 and if you use the same 90 degree peak you've magically got peak torque from one cylinder at all times - hence the engine has more torque.

    (now it is also becoming clearer as to why torque is actually a measurement relating to work done - each cylinder may have the ability to make identical torque to the 4 cylinders on the first, but as its more continuous the engine can do more work, hence has more torque.
    Bear in mind though that on the 8 as the next cylinder starts to produce peak torque the other is still giving some torque, thereby reducing the resistance on the crank turning - this actually the way I understand it will actually reduce the amount of torque from both cylinders as the turning force of one reduces that of the other (many other factors like compression of other cylinders holding it back) because as said its a measure of work done - however the engine as a whole is producing the sum total so is actually doing more work - god I love my explainations and way my ideas evolve as I type. Now what was this thread about?)


    To make everything more confusing and totally make all the above meaningless I have done calculations based on the latest 2006 F1 engines.

    At 18000 RPM they produce about 218lb/ft of torque - which isn't massive!

    (where power is 750bhp and peak power is 18k RPM - if they produce 700bhp at 16k RPM it equates to 230lb/ft but I've not got access to BHP/RPM for latest F1s - out of interest the last lot of 2005 V10 engines produced 250lb/ft at 20k RPM!)

    Not entirely sure what point I was first trying to make or even sure what point I have made.

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    Re: torque ?

    Quote Originally Posted by boombang View Post


    Not entirely sure what point I was first trying to make or even sure what point I have made.
    I understood this bit
    ........
    ................If it has tyres or testicles - its trouble

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    Re: torque ?

    I distinctly remember in one of my first posts warning regarding such posts as the above - the trouble is I read + think too much, mainly about engines!

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    What curb ;-) Decade Plus User FF_Mark's Avatar

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    Re: torque ?

    Quote Originally Posted by boombang View Post
    Not entirely sure what point I was first trying to make or even sure what point I have made.
    Thats quote of the week it should go in your siggy
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