Not really sure how to word this...
Is 200nm @ 4000rpm more than 200nm @3000rpm ?
or is the rpm not a factor ?
Not really sure how to word this...
Is 200nm @ 4000rpm more than 200nm @3000rpm ?
or is the rpm not a factor ?
Cupra Formentor / MR2 Mk3 / Fiat Ambulance
200nm is 200nm, rpm is not part of it
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Torque and speed give power
She's built like a Steakhouse, but handles like a Bistro
so how come a Mondeo 2.0 TDCi with silly amounts of torque gets waisted by my S2000 with fook all torque
Cupra Formentor / MR2 Mk3 / Fiat Ambulance
less weight, gearing and more bhp = more work done. If you make 150bhp @ 2000rpm you have loads of torque, if you make it at 9000rpm you have less torque for the same power.
She's built like a Steakhouse, but handles like a Bistro
bhp is how hard you can hit a wall with a hammer, torque is how big your hammer is.
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I'm not going to race a car whilts towing a caravan, in fact I'm never going to tow anything with my car, so I'm happy with it thanks
I was only asking as someone said that the same torque at higher revs was worth more than lower revs.
Cupra Formentor / MR2 Mk3 / Fiat Ambulance
Check these out:
Horsepower
Torque
Kam
1982 E21 323i Turbo (A long work in progress, finished at last!! WhooHoooo!!!)
I was first taught that power is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far back you shunt the wall! Simple and misleading but chuckle-worthy.
I am no professional engine builder (though have designed a few specs!) but love my theory and especially the physics of it all. Bearing in minds its been over 10 years since last being taught I make the odd mistake so don't shoot me down - plus sorry in advance if this turns into one of my famous (on other forums at least!) essays
Race engines/vehicles are tricky things to figure out but its really down to two very simple things (generally speaking - some race applications are different):
You want an engine producing as much torque over as wide a range as possible, mated to a set of gear ratios that will mean a gear change brings you back down onto the appropriate part of the rev range for you to be within the peak torque zone - hence peaky engines have close boxes, and huge torque turbo + multi cylinder engines get away with longer boxes as it makes putting the torque to the ground easier as torque is a turning force, making gears longer gives reduced turning resistance to effectively less toruqe over time (its already starting to get complicated - sorry).
That little picture with the cylinder is actually perfect for showing why more cylinders = more torque!
As you can see the peak torque isn't held for long. On a 4 stroke 4 cylinder engine one of the pistons will be in that peak area every 180 degrees - and only gives good torque output for 90 of that!
This means for the say first 45 from TDC and last 45 before BDC little torque is being produced and the next cylinder in sequence will not be producing good torque for another 45degrees after it hits TDC.
(may be earlier or later, longer or shorter but these figures are for arguements sake and relate to that image. Turbo engines give more compression, fill the cylinder quicker and give more Vr hence more torque)
Now if you take a 6 or 8 cylinder engine its very simple to see that the engine is simply producing peak torque for a great percentage of the engine cycle - take an 8 and if you use the same 90 degree peak you've magically got peak torque from one cylinder at all times - hence the engine has more torque.
(now it is also becoming clearer as to why torque is actually a measurement relating to work done - each cylinder may have the ability to make identical torque to the 4 cylinders on the first, but as its more continuous the engine can do more work, hence has more torque.
Bear in mind though that on the 8 as the next cylinder starts to produce peak torque the other is still giving some torque, thereby reducing the resistance on the crank turning - this actually the way I understand it will actually reduce the amount of torque from both cylinders as the turning force of one reduces that of the other (many other factors like compression of other cylinders holding it back) because as said its a measure of work done - however the engine as a whole is producing the sum total so is actually doing more work - god I love my explainations and way my ideas evolve as I type. Now what was this thread about?)
To make everything more confusing and totally make all the above meaningless I have done calculations based on the latest 2006 F1 engines.
At 18000 RPM they produce about 218lb/ft of torque - which isn't massive!
(where power is 750bhp and peak power is 18k RPM - if they produce 700bhp at 16k RPM it equates to 230lb/ft but I've not got access to BHP/RPM for latest F1s - out of interest the last lot of 2005 V10 engines produced 250lb/ft at 20k RPM!)
Not entirely sure what point I was first trying to make or even sure what point I have made.
I distinctly remember in one of my first posts warning regarding such posts as the above - the trouble is I read + think too much, mainly about engines!
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