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Thread: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

  1. #361
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Quote Originally Posted by david_white View Post
    Nice position for the turbo Graham, I take it it clears the bonnet ok still?
    heres proof the turbo doesnt clear the bonnet, although it doesnt poke through as much as i'd expected, and this is with the back edge of the bonnet sitting flat rather than in its normal raised position



    you may remember it used to have an inch deep stainless steel scoop on it origonally
    Last edited by Graham; 21-12-2007 at 10:11.

  2. #362
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    i wasnt too happy with the body where the cage goes through to the n/s strut top, it was ropey, it had plate tacked around the hole for the cage to pass through and GRP filling the gaps, i decided to tidy it, and whilst at it i could sneekily attach the cage to the body shell in another place, which will help support the cage/strut top better especially as i now dont have a strut brace

    so 1 small roberts style exploritorary later...


    view from in the car


    thats better!


    from inside the inner arch


    outter scuttle skin replaced


    although you cant see them i've now added a couple of steel strips to support the header tank

  3. #363
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    heres proof the turbo doesnt clear the bonnet,



    you may remember it used to have an inch deep stainless steel scoop on it origonally
    now updated with a cheap and cheerfull duct from burtons

  4. #364
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    i ordered some new rear pads from ebc and popped them into the new bigger brake caliper and meassured the offsets so i could order the bells and discs



    then got on the phone to rally design and ordered universal discs and bells in the sizes required


    dunno if you have already spotted the problem but the universally dont fit each other! the discs have 6 mounting holes and the bells 8

    the discs wont even go over the bells, i know they are universal, but there is a limit eevn worse they were so poorly packed that the discs damaged the bells in transit, they are still usable but if i send them back i doubt it will get a refund because they are now damaged

    so i considered my options, i could fit my spare front discs to the bells, but would need to buy new expansive calipers and that would give me the same size/power brakes at both ends of the car remachine the rear hubs to take some other discs i have spare but that would leave them dangerously weak , start again but on a budget of zero thats not going to be easy



    actually i dont give up, i think i have worked out a way round it all, but what should of been a simple matter of skimming a couple of mm off the bell to get the offset right has now turned into a major engineering exercise

  5. #365
    Pole Position Decade Plus User david_white's Avatar

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Send em back Graham, I don't see how its your fault!

    Like the bonnet mods though

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  6. #366
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Send em back Graham,
    opps too late!

    an hour or so in the lathe and one now looks rather different and is a 1/3 lighter!





    and fits on here
    Last edited by Graham; 27-12-2007 at 10:48.

  7. #367
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    a couple of hours and lots of meassuring and drilling later still, the bells just want threads tapped in the holes that will retain the discs and its time for a trial fit on the car


  8. #368
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    on the car now, just need to finish tweeking the caliper bracket


  9. #369
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    a couple of hours and lots of meassuring and drilling later still, the bells just want threads tapped in the holes that will retain the discs and its time for a trial fit on the car

    The maths in the background made me chuckle

    Good work though Graham. Looks like the pads are going to be very close to the alloy bell though - have you had calipers/pads on yet?

  10. #370
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    i wondered if anyone would spot the deliberate mistake in the maths,

    the pads will clear as ive had the bell on the car with the caliper and pads in place, all be it without the disc attached, its all fairly close though, i need tweek the caliper offset with a shim or two (washer) and once im happy with that drill the bottom hole for the caliper bracket, leaving that hole until last when everything else is bolted up allows me to adjust the caliper position slightly if needed
    Last edited by Graham; 29-12-2007 at 12:39.

  11. #371
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    trickiest part of the whole operation was getting the discs centered up on the graduated turn table so i could redrill the mounting holes in a perfect center as well as drilling the holes all the correct distance apart, getting either of these wrong would either mean horrible out of balence vibrations, or discs and bells that would only fit together on one position




  12. #372
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    after a couple of hours of fiddling filing etc, i finally had the caliper mounts finished and it bolted on,

    and the whole lot weighs exactly the same as the std setup which im pleased about, as most upgrades on stripped out already lightened race cars seem to add weight



    heres the std one for comparision

    the upgrade has gained me 22mm disc diameter they were 258 and are now 280, a vented disc and 33% more brake pad area all for £200 which is a very cheap upgrade, it would of been easier if i had used an aftermarket willwood caliper and a bigger disc but the budget just isnt there for that.
    Last edited by Graham; 02-01-2008 at 18:02.

  13. #373
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    starting with a piece of 6mm thick steel plate, a hole saw, and bits from transit and opel manta alternator brackets i've started work on a turbo damper, as i cant be sure which direction the turbo will actually move in or by how much, the plan is to allow it to move wherever it wants to, but at the same time being supported, so i have come up with a mechanism that allows it to move and uses a valve spring to take the majority of the weight of the turbo, well that the theory anyway








  14. #374
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    That looks like a really neat solution.

    How much are you expecting the turbo to try and move by?

    Keep up the good work.
    Jake

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    the turbo on my 8v used to move up by about quarter inch, and i've seen sierra cosworth ones suddenly jump that much when there damper has been sticky, so i guess thats about how much mine will move

  16. #376
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    progress has been a bit slow, i got the front of the shell up pretty high then stripped out the from suspension for a spot of cleaning and painting



    engine crane and very tall axle stands came in handy here

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    a minor milestone here, ive bolted the front suspension and steering back in, for good rather then on a tempory basis.

    as well as splashed some blue paint around, i was going to change the colour, but decided against it, fianances being tight means i wont have to buy as much paint as i have some ( but not enough) left over and can get on with it now rather than waiting for payday

    Last edited by Graham; 16-01-2008 at 21:15.

  18. #378
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    so having bolted something back in the car what better way to celibrate then by unbolting something else,

    so out comes the rear suspension, and at this point there nothing left that i havnt removed form the shell



    the plan for the backend was just to remove the redundant spring mounts from the trailing arms and make a smallish modification to the beam mounts, note i said was!
    Last edited by Graham; 16-01-2008 at 22:29.

  19. #379
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    e30 beemer rear suspension is very similar to a sierra, they both suffer from gaining excessive negative camber when you lower them lots,

    i had already used an old trick by inserting the beam mounts upside down , this pushes the beam higher in the body and helps offset the lowering, but with my new even bigger wider wheels and rubber i wanted to take a little more camber out, buying a pukka group A rose jointed beam and wishbones was out the question and although could make an adjustable beam, i dont think i'd have the time to do that and get the car ready for the seasons start, so i've resorted to getting the beam even higher in the body by slimming it and its mounting bushes and sleeves down a bit

    before the angle grinder treatmeant



    after


    stainless sleeve being trimmed


    even with a sharp tip, the bushed themselves didnt really machine nicely, they ended up looking a bit like i'd filed them down with sandpaper, but they will do the job


    still on the beam i added some reinforcing gussets
    Last edited by Graham; 16-01-2008 at 22:35.

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    one i had stripped out the trailing arms it was obvious some of the bushes were shot


    the bushes not being that old i wondered why for a while and realised two things, firstly as the the suspension moved they were being rubbed hard against the main brackets which was wearing them, well more tearing them actually but also as the sleeve through the middle of them was longer than the bushes, they worked there way out of the trailing arms slightly and then twisted under load, although i suppose the utimate reason for the wear is as much down to masive slicks as anything, i must put some real thought into making a pukka group A / touring car rose jointed rear end some time

    so i enlarged the hole on some penny washers, so they went over the sleves and effectively widthwise made the bushes a perfect fit in the beam and trailing arms so they cant work there there way out and have a better surface to sit against, well thats the theory anyway


    finally after a quick coat of shitty green paint (it was free so i dont care about the colour) the beam ready to go back in, the diff got an oil change, and the bolts on its back cover nipped up, and i swapped the halfshafts for my spare ones as the ones i took off the car has quite a lot of play in the outer cv's



    i will put the trailing arms in later as im still waiting for the new bushes
    Last edited by Graham; 17-01-2008 at 09:48.

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    my trailing arm bushes didnt arrive today as they were supposed to

    so i struggled a bit to get much meaning full stuff done, the boot got some paint



    finished the rear brake caliper mounts by making some spacers and and finding a suitable wheel stud and nut to hold the alloy bracket to the hub as opposed to the nuts and bolts i had used to mock up with on the car


    i started to blend the rear arches, well until i ran out of filler

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  23. #382
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    right got togo to work now, but my bushes turned up this morning, so i got the trailing arms, driveshafts and rear brakes bolted back on, i didnt take any pics because they look exactly the same as when i took them out.

    but at last having got both the front and rear suspension bolted in for good i feel like i've made some progress

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    You might make it out for the 1st race then


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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    i've been out of circulation for a while, have trapped a nerve

    so no real progress other than to catch up with a couple of pics

    whilst engine was out the car i stripped off this little lot so i could check the torque on the head bolts



    actually it was a bit of a waste of time the head bolts haddnt loosened, so the gasket obviuosly doesnt compress with use, which is worth knowing and i wont worry about trying to retorque it in future which is virtually immpossible with the engine in the car


    i also checked the ends, which slowed a bit of wear in no 4, so that got a couple of new bearings, thankfully the crank was ok, this could of been caused by a bit of oil starvation with one of the several oil leaks i suffered last season or when i buzzed to engine to silly silly revs


    lastly and quite by accident i discovered the rivits holding the clutch plate to its splines had come very loose on the outer plate so a quick call to demon tweeks got me a new pair of plates for almost nothing after my discount and using some sponsorship vouchers i got after a pic of my car appeared in motorsport news




    nice to see the new plates have twice as many rivits as the old ones
    Last edited by Graham; 05-02-2008 at 16:36.

  26. #385
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    still no progress as i cant stand up for more than a few mins, but i can drive so i popped over to emerald, and got dave to flow test my new injectors, they flow a wapping 960cc per min



    that should be big enough!!!

    potentially a swap back to my origonal exhaust manifold could bump the power up by another 65bhp which means the fuel pumps are going to struggle to keep up so i picked up another high pressre fuel pump whilst at emeralds,

    i need to give some thought to the low pressure facet, because that wont be able to keep up, crunching the numbers show at full throttle if the engine does regain what i lost when i swapped exhaust manifolds the swirl pot will empty in 10 seconds, so i either need a second facet or i may just use a high pressure EFI pump in its place

  27. #386
    Pole Position Decade Plus User david_white's Avatar

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Sounds like you're aiming for some big numbers there Graham, hope you get better soon to get this beast finished in time

    When you say you might run another facet do you mean in series with the other one or parallel to it?

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    it would need to be parallel, but that means spending even more money to buy another one so i will just use an efi pump instead as i have a spare one which will do the job, the efi pump makes far more pressure than you would need for a swirl pot but seeing as excess fuel just vents straight back to the tank without any restrictions i cant see that being a problem.

    as for numbers well, i don't like quoting them, because so much depends on other factors, the engine is now half 2006 spec and half 2007, any may not be at full strength anyway after it sitting around for half a season and my valve bending episode and it now having slightly under-size valves.

    but assuming the engine hasnt suffered too much

    with the 2007 engine spec with cossie manifold lost me power but it peaked higher, so i hope that with the 2006 manifolding i keep the higher peak and get the lost power back, with the secret modifications that i Incorporated at the same time as we up upgraded the ecu to multiple maps, on paper at least 550 is within reach and a mind boggling 600 possible if i switched the T38 for a T4, although as to if it ever made it and how long it would make it for would be another matter entirely along with severe doubts as to if the bog std transmission would cope
    Last edited by Graham; 18-02-2008 at 09:55.

  29. #388
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    still not done anything to the car, well almost nothing, i dropped my PLR supplied escort fuel tank in the boot and its a perfect fit.


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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    at last some progress, i've lobbed some primer and paint on it, and it really is lobbed, not being able to bend or move properly doesnt do much for my very very rusty painting skills cellelose was still all the rage last time i worked in a bodyshop.

    panelbasher could of done a better job blind foldered standing on one leg with his hands tied behind his back but it is at least presentable


  31. #390
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    because i bought a black car the inside has always been black, i cant believe how much better the inside of the car looks in body colour

    managed to get the steering colume and pedal box back in without putting my back out again


  32. #391
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Nice one Grahamdo you think you are still on target for the start of the season?
    tommy 2000

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    maybe, i could probably assemble the car but money is going to be a real issue having been off work a couple of weeks with back trouble

  34. #393
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Sorry to hear about your back problems mate,nothing worse than being off work but not being able to do anything due to injury/illness

    Sounds like it should be a bit of a beast when it's finnished

  35. #394
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    finally it feels like somethings happening

    got my seat, belts and fire extinguisher in on sunday



    been more busy since, wired and plumbed the fire extingusher, and the hard fuel lines, you can just see the 3 of them bottom right of picture, 2 feeds 1 return


    plumbed and bleed the brakes

    started on the wiring

    gearbox and prop on and clutch hydralics bleed
    Last edited by Graham; 20-02-2008 at 00:30.

  36. #395
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Looking good Graham

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    ever since i bolted exhaust manifold complete with turbo, adaptor etc the weight of the whole thing has worried me, despite my damper/support mount, the it dawned on me that the majority of the manifolds expanion will take place at the hottest bit closest to the turbo so that if i supported the manifold close to the head i would hopefilly be ok, so here goes nothing and using some spare ashley exhaust clamps ( see ashley stuff does fit sometimes lol) i've used the coolant rail to support the manifold



    then added a support under the manifold,


    this pic shows just how tall the whole turbo/manifold assembly is



    back in the car at last ,
    no real hitches fitting it, the n/s engine mount needed some "perswading" but thats often the case when you fit something for real for the first time having only previously mocked up so many modified bits

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    sorry to hear about youre back troubles Grahamon the other hand im glad to hear the engine dropped in without too much fussthat turbo looks huuuuge on there.lets hope the supports save a once before problem out on track
    tommy 2000

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Good to see some progress going on Graham.

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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    Nice work graham, doing better than me and my backs fine

    As for the efi pump and it returning to the tank most of the time, will you not run into fuel heating problems with the friction of constantly being pumped round the return circuit? Hope you understand what i mean, iv confused myself with some big words

  41. #400
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    Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

    As for the efi pump and it returning to the tank most of the time, will you not run into fuel heating problems with the friction of constantly being pumped round the return circuit?
    hopefully not! thats same way it worked with the facet pump, as the swirl pot is a free return theres no pressure in that part of the system, and the pump will take minimal electrical load because its not working hard so that shouldnt heat the fuel, with the engine at full power there will barely be a dribble going back to the main tank, with a big alloy tank, i dont see really cant see it being an issue anyway, not forgetting that i never race for more than 20mins anyway with most races this year scheduled for 15min

    thanks for the interest and your imput dave, its nice to know someone actually reads this drivvel i write, oh yes thanks also to the other daves, tom, andy gary etc and everyone else
    Last edited by Graham; 21-02-2008 at 09:41.

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