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Thread: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

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    Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Fitted brand new IDF's to my Pinto.
    No air leaks timing 8 Deg.
    Links and cable not connected.
    Cant get below 1200rpm Throttles look fully closed.
    Any Ideas?

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Brand new so newer type of IDF's?
    Check that the air-bypass-screws are fully closed.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Hi,
    Thanks for the help.
    Yes, latest type and by-passes all fully closed.

    Not Italian type Webers though, cheepo Spanish type copies I think.
    4 progression hole type.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Anybody have any Ideas?

    Drives great just cant get the tick-over down.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    How far out are the idle adjustment screws?

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    What vacuum-hoses have you connected to the inlet manifold?

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Hi, Thanks for the replies.
    Only Servo connected to manifold and stop screws are well clear and mixture screws around 1.5 turns out.
    Strange thing is butterflies look closed.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by yellowtaxi View Post
    Strange thing is butterflies look closed.
    Look closed or are actually closed?

    Does screwing the mixture screws in make any difference?

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Yes,
    Mixture screws are behaving as they should...Screw in and engine hunts, screw out a few turns and it does the same. I set them as per suggestions on this site.
    Regarding the butterflies, they do look closed but with a long screwdriver pushing on them the engine does slow down a bit. When carb is removed I can see daylight, not just on leading edge but even next to spindle.
    Carbs are new, could a shaft be bent?

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Ok, I would loosen the butterfly screws slightly and try to centre the butterflies in the bores - if they are off centre slightly they won't close properly/fully.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Thanks,
    I will give that a go.
    Im amazed how little air is required during idle.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    There's definitely something wrong if you can see air around the butterflies so that's going to be the biggest issue if not the only issue.

    Once you've got that sorted I'm guessing you'll need to do a full re-tune and balance etc.
    Last edited by HonkyWhiteTrash; 19-05-2016 at 10:53.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    I found a set of bike carb meters invaluable in setting up. I had a slightly twisted throttle shaft on the forward carb https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY11ha6XnpY

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Synchroniser sounds interesting.
    I found this one on ebay but how or where would I connects it?

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?


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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    have a look at this diagram.

    the carbs have a vacuum port under each choke. mine have brass pipes fitted ( which I think you can buy from webcon )

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rc...63815908778927

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Hi again all,
    A little update on this one.
    I have found out the carbs are not even Spanish copies, they are Chinese ones. Im sure you will agree this is not good, I have obtained some new butterflies and fitted them. By looking at the gaps I must say they seem a very good fit but I can still a faint ring of light around the bit where the plates are next to the spindles (the widest part of the throat effectively) It really isnt much and I would be surprised if even proper webers seal better than these. I also fitted sealed bearings by the way. Since fitting the new bits tick-over has reduced slightly but its still 1000rpm without the stop screws in contact and tick over is a bit lumpy, like its on choke. The only difference the bits have really made is the mixture screws only need 3/4 of a turn now from fully seated now for best running. By-passes are fully closed.
    So do I just admit I balls-up and by buying cheap I have cost myself more in the long run and just buy some proper webers from an authorised dealer or do I persist in the hope the carbs are ok and there is another underlying issue.
    Dont mind taking a hit as the guy I bought the carbs from is prepared to take them back but dont want to fork out for proper Webers only to find I have the same problems.

    For reference sizes are as follows:

    Venturies 34
    Idles 55
    Emulsion tubes F2
    Air 200
    Mains 145

    The car drives really well, better in fact than I expected, remembering my days with twin DCOE's on my old x flows, Its just the high tick-over.

    Any more ideas guys? really stuck.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    The question I would want answering is how much experience does the Chinese company have in developing fuel delivery systems and understanding the intricacies of them? Weber spent a lot of time researching and developing their own products over a long period (and didn't always get it right) but they're still regarded as leaders in their field.
    I can't remember who said it but there's a phrase at the back of my mind about someone being asked "what is it that makes Webers so good?" with the answer being something like "3 things... accuracy, accuracy and accuracy."

    Carbs aren't something that can be copied successfully unless the "why and how" carburetors work is fully understood.

    So if the company has prestige and a good background then maybe the answer lies elsewhere in the jetting and set-up of the carbs and/or your overall engine spec. If they don't have prestige then I would be taking them back.

    I think the problem could be thinking that the settings that apply to genuine Weber IDF's will automatically be similar/the same on the carbs you have. To not even have a reference point and base setting could put you on the road to nowhere.
    At least with Weber they published details on what carbs worked with what spec engine as obviously they supplied car manufacturers with a properly specced carb for a designated engine spec. And there are suitable Weber tuning guides to support setting them up!
    Last edited by HonkyWhiteTrash; 27-05-2016 at 01:48.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Click image for larger version Name:	Weber.jpg Views:	95 Size:	54.3 KB ID:	78697

    Worth buying if you have any genuine Webers to set-up!
    Last edited by HonkyWhiteTrash; 27-05-2016 at 01:58.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    clearly a bad made carb will shown problems at small (closed) openings, where the accuracy plays a BIG role.
    not mentioning the whole body. Alloy can expand badly as the carb goes hot.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by yellowtaxi View Post
    Hi again all,
    A little update on this one.
    I have found out the carbs are not even Spanish copies, they are Chinese ones. Im sure you will agree this is not good, I have obtained some new butterflies and fitted them. By looking at the gaps I must say they seem a very good fit but I can still a faint ring of light around the bit where the plates are next to the spindles (the widest part of the throat effectively) It really isnt much and I would be surprised if even proper webers seal better than these. I also fitted sealed bearings by the way. Since fitting the new bits tick-over has reduced slightly but its still 1000rpm without the stop screws in contact and tick over is a bit lumpy, like its on choke. The only difference the bits have really made is the mixture screws only need 3/4 of a turn now from fully seated now for best running. By-passes are fully closed.
    So do I just admit I balls-up and by buying cheap I have cost myself more in the long run and just buy some proper webers from an authorised dealer or do I persist in the hope the carbs are ok and there is another underlying issue.
    Dont mind taking a hit as the guy I bought the carbs from is prepared to take them back but dont want to fork out for proper Webers only to find I have the same problems.

    For reference sizes are as follows:

    Venturies 34
    Idles 55
    Emulsion tubes F2
    Air 200
    Mains 145

    The car drives really well, better in fact than I expected, remembering my days with twin DCOE's on my old x flows, Its just the high tick-over.

    Any more ideas guys? really stuck.
    How can you tell the difference between a Spanish IDF and a Chinese IDF? I've just changed over to IDF's and I'd be interested to know which I have.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by beeRS View Post
    How can you tell the difference between a Spanish IDF and a Chinese IDF? I've just changed over to IDF's and I'd be interested to know which I have.
    My guess would be that they aren't anything to do with Weber so won't have Weber on them like these :

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48IDF-oem-...cAAOSwFqJWllIC
    Last edited by HonkyWhiteTrash; 27-05-2016 at 14:46.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    OK Guys,
    I get the picture....I F*&^%-up.!
    Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.

    Im going to treat myself to a pair of Webers from Fast Road cars Newport. They are an authorised Weber agent.

    I really wouldnt have entertained these copies had I have known they where rip-offs of the originals.
    I have struck a deal with my pal who I got them from, hes going take them back and im going to keep the manifold and air cleaner.


    The saga continues...

    I will keep you all posted.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    BeeRS,
    When I get the new genuine ones I will compare and let you know the detailed differences.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Yellowtaxi, I just checked mine. They are Weber ones (thank god!).

    I have had a lot of 'fun' making the throttle cable and linkage fit. If you need any advice on this give me a shout.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Weber carbs have the "W" on them; copies are marked EMPI or FAJS.
    I won't tune non-Weber carbs even brand-new ones because they are badly made (at least the ones I have seen).

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    BeeRS,
    Thanks mate, appreciated but I was lucky enough to have a cable bracket supplied with my stuff, complete with GP1 dipstick and a cable so all good there.
    Out of interest what did you do with your breather pipe. My GP1 airbox had a boss for it so I just connected that up. Seems strange though the Engine 'consumes' its own fumes. Also, Do you run a choke?

    MiniliteMan,
    What do you think of the latest Weber carbs. I have been told they are made in Spain and not so good?

    With all this Chinese made, Spanish made, Italian made its a bit of a minefield for the uninitiated.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBER-44-I...EAAMXQVERSrflV

    Thanks all.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Hi,

    Italian are the original Webers; early Spanish are licensed by Weber and crap; later Spanish Webers (the ones you can buy nowadays) are licensed also but better but not made like the Italian ones. Compare the 2 and you see what I mean.
    Other copies like EMPI and FAJS are crap in my opinion.

    Anthony at fastroadcars sells Webers only; I and many others have bought parts/carbs from him with no complaints.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Thanks Miniliteman.

    Nice to know you can vouch for fastroadcars.

    I will get an order over to him ASAP.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by yellowtaxi View Post
    BeeRS,
    Thanks mate, appreciated but I was lucky enough to have a cable bracket supplied with my stuff, complete with GP1 dipstick and a cable so all good there.
    Out of interest what did you do with your breather pipe. My GP1 airbox had a boss for it so I just connected that up. Seems strange though the Engine 'consumes' its own fumes. Also, Do you run a choke?
    The Weber's I have do not have any breather ports - they're blocked off...

    Click image for larger version Name:	A (11).jpg Views:	83 Size:	116.2 KB ID:	78703

    I'm running breather pipes off the crank case and the oil filler to a catch tank. Not using a choke. Mine is still a work in progress - only started up for the first time (with new carbs) two days ago. So far its started fine without a choke and idles OK in a minute or so.

    BTW, if you end up with a set of new Spanish Webers (like mine) the throttle lever seems to be in the wrong position. I had to fabricate my own. It was a real headache.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Hi there BeeRS
    Sorry, Sorry for the delay in replying. Had issues with the computer.

    The breather Im referring to is the one from the side of the Engine block with the canister thingy.
    My one did go the the manifold on the single carb but now goes to the airbox on the carbs side of the filter.

    Did you just put a breather on yours?

    Nice shiny carb set-up by the way.

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    Re: Weber IDF's Idle too high, any ideas?

    Sorry for my slow response (been stuck in the garage). I removed the canister on the side of the block, then fitted a breather elbow from Burtons...

    http://www.burtonpower.com/breather-...0mm-fp280.html

    From that I have a 12mm ID hose running to a catch tank.

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