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Thread: C24se xe head conversion.

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    C24se xe head conversion.

    There isn't a lot of info this side of the pond regarding xe conversions. Holden (Vauxhall) here have a rwd ute with the sohc 2.4 and 5 speed in the Holden rodeo. C24se

    I am considering using this platform with an xe head and a set of 45's or tb's.

    Has anyone any experience with this bottom end conversion? I have tried the search function but not come up with much.

    Is it a straight bolt on?
    Any mods or different parts that need sourcing? Cambelt tensioner etc? Oil and water ways.
    Can I use the standard bottom end to begin with.
    Rough estimate of power on standard cams?

    They are about 10 yrs old now so starting to see more in the wreckers yards. On paper it seems like a very economical alternative.

    Thanks in advance,

    Shaun

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    ive never heard of a c24se, so i dont think you will get much response if any from over this side of the pond

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    No worries Graham. Apparently some of the Irish lads were using the bottom ends for strokers. They found them in forklifts or something. They are a basically a long stroke big bore version of the xe, same family engine, only with sohc.

    Might just need to pick up a bottom end and jump right in.

    Fancy a change after near 20yrs of pintos.

    Shaun.

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Keep her lit

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Hello, can I ask if you ever got anymore info on this?

    Kind regards
    Darren

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelybin22 View Post
    Hello, can I ask if you ever got anymore info on this?

    Kind regards
    Darren
    Hi Darren I have done some research, and now know what fork lift it is fitted in, have found one engine but its not cheap, can put you in touch with the seller. Mark

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelybin22 View Post
    Hello, can I ask if you ever got anymore info on this?

    Kind regards
    Darren
    I did have a good look into this and it keeps coming back on my radar... Really, I cant see why no one here is doing it????

    Complete 2.4se engines can be had for under the equivalent of 100 pounds.

    C20xe holden calibra heads are few and far between however we have plenty of the ecotech versions on astras which would suffice.

    The local wrecker allows you to take a head from one engine and the bottom end from another and only charges you the full engine price so I figure I can get a xe headed 2.4 stroker for under 100 pounds.

    The 2.4se is already rwd, has a rear sump and the 5 speed gearbox will only set you back another 100 pounds.

    Throw on some spare 45's, fab up and exhaust and you should have the basis for a pretty stout engine.

    Bore size is fairly common so finding some pistons and rods wont be a problem should you need to upgrade.

    All I need to do is find some cams.

    There doesn't seem to be much for the xe over here.
    Anyone know where I can find a 2nd hand set to suit?? Otherwise where to shop, Profile? Cost?

    So the question is, what would I be expecting from a 2.4xe, using standard cams, lightly ported ecotec head, 45's and an exhaust? About 170-200hp?

    Not a bad outcome for well under 500 pounds.

    Shaun


    Shaun

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    OK so it is going to happen. however it will be slowly over the next couple of years.

    Just over a year ago I managed to be in the right place at the right time to buy a really nice, almost rust free escort from an old man who had put down a deposit on a new car. MK2, 2 litre auto shell. Pretty much the most sort after non RS mk2. He had tried to trade in his trusty mk2 however the dealer wasn't interested in such an old car??? So I got it for a steal!!! Anyway, since I first posted this query, I have been keeping my eye out for redblocks however they are few and far between here in Australia, only coming out in one model car for a very short run. Finally, after 2 years of searching, this morning I found one a a wreckers a Holden Calibra, 4x4 turbo, fitted with the C20let and 6 speed manual. A quick drive out, fingers crossed and found the car pretty much intact, only with a broken rocker cover. Several hours later and several skun knuckles, I now have the elusive (in OZ anyway) twincam head.

    Going to be a steep learning curve as there is little to know info here, but now the build can really start.

    The head is a GM Coscast head and looks to be in exceptional condition. A steal at only $80AUD and I pulled it form a running car. (I have a feeling finding a rocker cover will cost me way more than the head).

    So now I've got the head, got online and also just bought the rwd 5speed gearbox that mates to the C24se!

    Now to chase down a bottom end for the 2.4, a rocker cover and maybe even lash out and get some uprated NA cams.

    I already have a spare pair of 45's and/or also some GSXR throttle bodies if I decide to go that way.



    Here's a pic of the escort......

    Click image for larger version Name:	orange escort 2.jpg Views:	313 Size:	142.4 KB ID:	82832
    Last edited by escortinadriver; 02-06-2018 at 06:58.

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    For a big cc XE the engine to get hold of is the frontera 2.2 bottom end.

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    For a big cc XE the engine to get hold of is the frontera 2.2 bottom end.
    Why the c22se and not the C24se? My plan is for a 2.4 on a budget.

    SHaun

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    I believe the c24 is a totally different block. I’ve done a few with the long stroke Frontera 2.2 bottom end, although mostly I’ve only ever used the crank.

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    OK. will have to look into it.

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Well I haven't given up and still slowly collecting parts. This was never going to be a short term project.

    I've now picked up a complete rwd c24se engine so the swap is on.

    As mentioned, I already had the matching 5speed, and I managed to track down a rocker cover for the redtop. It cost me as much as the cylinder head!!!
    Found an alloy tarmac kit (still need rear spoiler), a weld in cage, 5 link kit and a hilux diff for the rear.

    Looks like the cams are going to cost me more than the rest or the engine put together.

    I'll get some pics up later.

    Shaun

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Ok, So this is still on the cards, although a bit has happened.

    Unfortunately, when I went to pick up the C24se the engine wasn't quite as the seller has described.

    Whilst I was tempted to buy it anyway, I walked away as I wasn't in a rush.

    Fast forward to now and and there has been a few distractions and a slight change of plans.

    I build up another escort which put this engine on the backburner.
    A rally/motorkhana car with basically spare parts I had lying around. The shell was rust free by UK standards, only missing a roof. So a quick re-roof, weld in cage, pinto on 45s with RX8 box and it was good to go.

    Now I'm after a bit more power so back to the 2.4 idea. I'm still convinced this is a viable alternative however, finding a low KM engine was proving a problem

    Fortunately, you can buy NOS GM units here locally, so I ended up going that way, well almost.....

    The XE engine is based around the GM Family II engine of which many manufactures share a common platform with interchangeable parts. GM, holden, vauxhall, suzuki, daewoo and saab all utilizing the same basic block and bellhousing pattern, With that in mind, i'm am digging into the parts bin and will be mixing and matching various items, again, in the hope of keeping the build to some kind of sensible budget, as the car is not a big budget build, quite the opposite in fact.

    I purchased a 2.0 long motor, of which i will run a turbo on low boost in RWD form for the mean time....
    I also purchased a 2.2 short motor, which I will (eventually) likely build into a (budget???) 2.3 with a C20XE head.

    Going to be an interesting learning curve, as I have no experience with XE's, and they are very, very few on the ground here in Oz.

    Should be a fun exercise anyway.

    Trying to upload pics however i'm having trouble.

    Shaun.

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Having trouble with uploading pics? Is the uploader the easiest way, Ive done it previously, however can't seem to work it out. Perhaps file to big? Anyone able to help?
    Thanks.

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by escortinadriver View Post
    Having trouble with uploading pics? Is the uploader the easiest way, Ive done it previously, however can't seem to work it out. Perhaps file to big? Anyone able to help?
    Thanks.
    if the files are too big the uploader tells you, you need to resize pics to work on here 800x600 pixels is a good size

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    The new motorkhana escort



    Box of NOS goodies....



    2.0 New old stock longe motor



    2.2 New old stock 2.2 short motor



    2.0 long motor and 2.2 with redtop c20xe head



    2.0 long motor with holden rodeo 2wd gearbox fitted. Factory sump will work too.


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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtt mark View Post
    Hi Darren I have done some research, and now know what fork lift it is fitted in, have found one engine but its not cheap, can put you in touch with the seller. Mark
    Can you share make and model of the forklift?

    Quote Originally Posted by escortinadriver View Post

    Complete 2.4se engines can be had for under the equivalent of 100 pounds.

    Shaun
    Where? There isnt single c24se in central europe for sale...
    Anyway, you need only crank from c24se/x24xf/x24sfd/z24xe, block and rods from x22xe(or any 2.2family 2), duratec 2.3 pistons, and head of liking, c20xe, x20xer etc..
    Rods from 2.2 and pistons from duratec, because stock 2.4 has poor ratio(100mm stroke and 143 rod) and 2.2 rod is 148mm, which result better angle....

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dziku View Post
    Can you share make and model of the forklift?


    Where? There isnt single c24se in central europe for sale...
    Anyway, you need only crank from c24se/x24xf/x24sfd/z24xe, block and rods from x22xe(or any 2.2family 2), duratec 2.3 pistons, and head of liking, c20xe, x20xer etc..
    Rods from 2.2 and pistons from duratec, because stock 2.4 has poor ratio(100mm stroke and 143 rod) and 2.2 rod is 148mm, which result better angle....
    As per the first post, I'm in Australia.

    There is not much info over here for xe engines as they only came out in one car, the Holden Calibra, for a limited number of years. As such, there is probably less than a dozen xe powered escorts in all of Australia. In contrast, we have dozens of sr20, ca18, fj20 and even K series Honda powered cars.

    The original ideas was to drop an xe head on a c24se bottom end as I managed to pick up a (very, very rare here) xe coscast head.

    2.4 bottom ends are reasonably common here. You can pick up a short block (c24se) for under $80aud (under 50gpd) if you pull it out of the wreck yourself.

    The plan was always to build something as cheap as possible, make good power, and try something new.

    As parts have arrived, and I've learnt, the project is evolving. I'm still trying to build it using parts from the wreckers, and not, 'bought'.

    I have made an inlet manifold for the 45's, have the parts for the exhaust and have a 100mm crank on the way.

    If I can get 200hp NA I'll be happy, as realistically, I could never home build a pinto and achieve that�� not with my skill level, and certainly, not with my budget.

    Shaun
    Last edited by escortinadriver; 27-06-2021 at 09:41.

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    So the final (for now) pieces of the ever changing puzzle have arrived.

    After several false starts I managed to grab another C24se bottom end (100mm stroke) with relatively low klms from a wreck.

    I'll now use the 100mm crank, 2.2 block, c20xe head pistons and rods. I have 45 webbers and will build the exhaust headers.

    This will give 2.3xe using factory parts, mixed and matched with no need for machining, minimizing costs.

    Whilst the rod/stroke ration will be far from ideal, it has been used successfully before and for the minimum use the car will get, it should do just fine.

    Hopefully should have some nice torque, and just might reach my 200hp goal.

    Here are some pics.








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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Slowly, slowly plugging away at this when I get a chance.

    Did I mention it was going to be long / slow project. No real rush when the engine in the car is working and preforming just fine.

    On assembling the bottom end and putting things together, somehow, sometime, I decided to bight the bullet.

    I'm now going for upgraded rods and pistons, which, while changing the engine from a completely budget build, the piece of mind that comes with steel rods, particularly, if (or when) i get over enthusiastic with the loud pedal, should be worth it. As proof of concept though, screwing it all together has been an interesting exercise and would have 'worked'.

    Anyway, some pics.



    Here, top to bottom. C20XE rods and pistons, C22 rods and pistons, c24 rods and pistons.



    Top 2.4 crank at 100mm and bottom 2.2 crank @ 94.6mm




    c20xe piston fitted to 2.2/2.4 148mm standard (weak) rods.

    I could fit the c20xe forged rods however these would require milling the block to get the compression up and slightly shaving the crank counterweights as they just touch.

    So now, waiting on the rods and pistons to arrive. I went with 86mm units, as (1) they were second hand (cheap) and (2) I can fit them to my new block without machining.

    Will update with some further pics once more stuff happens.

    Shaun
    Last edited by escortinadriver; 02-08-2021 at 07:42.

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Following with keen interest have a Holden RA rodeo that i have been toying with the idea of converting C24SE to a twin cam turbo

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Slowly slowly, however progress is still progress.



    Left to right.

    C20XE, C22, C24, spaturbo rods and omega pistons.

    I could run these rods and pistons with a wide journal 2.2 in a 2.2 block, or run the long rod in the tall 2.2 block with a 2.0 crank for a revvy, great rod/stroke ratio 2.0..


    Or..

    Make things difficult, put the 2.4 crank in......

    I'm now trying to decide on cams. Would love some second hand hydraulic cams that someone has upgraded to mechanical, however I'm thinking ill have to purchase new. Cams, springs, and retainers... It's starting to get pricey...������

    Still makes a nice change learning something new.

    Shaun

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.



    Slowly slowly still collecting bits.

    Enjoying the challenge of learning something new.

    Just about have everything. Have to wait until mid next year for the engine builder/head porter as he is has a few booked in already.

    Have decided on specs now and just about have everything needed to complete.

    2.2 block
    2.4 crank (gives just over 2.3lt)
    Omega pistons / rings
    Spa 148mm rods
    Newman Ph4 cams
    Supertech dbl vale springs with ti retainers
    New hydraulic lifters
    Custom alloy head spacer to sort compression
    Dcoe manifold
    Gsxr taper throttle bodies
    All new bolt ons (from crate engine)
    Modified Holden Rodeo sump/pickup
    Chassis engine mounts
    Custom mandrel exhaust.

    Just waiting (saving) to purchase lightened xev style flywheel.

    Got send incorrectly listed / wrong bearing set. Doesn't look like seller will reimburse. So still need to purchase these and gaskets.

    Have an older ECU which should run it fine, (ecumaster) however getting people to tune them here is a drama. So may have to purchase a local product, ie Haltec.

    Fingers crossed, should have it up and running next year.

    If I see 220hp ill be lucky, however my main aim is a nice torquey drivable engine.

    Shaun.

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    While your waiting you could get busy on a lathe and turn up some inlet mani - bike TB adaptors as a fun little project? They look like they are going to need a bit of re-centring as well?

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Yep. Have got some spare 10mm alloy flat plate. Will use some gaskets and templates and make up some adaptors. The TBs actually need to be spaced out to suit the dcoe pattern. At 42mm, they aren't ideal, 45 tapered, or DTH would be better, however they should do fine for the short term.

    Shaun

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    So after a long time on the back burner whilst other projects have taken priority, I dragged this out again today.

    Dragged the head out, time for disassembly.



    Have dummyfit the bottom end. Frustratingly, the clearances on the big ends of the rods are a bit tight. So I've sent them away to get a bit taken off.

    Hopefully I'll get some motivation back with this engine after stripping the head and get some more done.

    Shaun

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    I am so glad I came across this post of yours, as I would also love to build something similar one day.

    Did you manage to get any further with this build?

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Hi, any updates? I’m still strugling to find crank in here.
    Ecu wise you could use speeduino, its DIY stand alone with australian roots…

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    Re: C24se xe head conversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dziku View Post
    Hi, any updates? I’m still strugling to find crank in here.
    Ecu wise you could use speeduino, its DIY stand alone with australian roots…
    Sorry forgot about this thread as the engine gas been on the back burner.

    Lost a bit of motivation when I couldn't get a the head done due to the porter being way too busy.

    Engine has been dummy built now. currently sitting on a stand wrapped in plastic.

    Need to sort out belt etc.

    I have a Haltech Elite 750 ECU to run the thing.

    They are very common here in Australia with lots of support and tuners familiar with them.

    I'll try to remember to get some pics and update the thread.

    Shaun.

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