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Thread: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

  1. #81
    Pole Position Decade Plus User Pushrod King's Avatar
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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    I use an Aldon Ignitor on my race engine good value for money and simple to fit.
    Last edited by Pushrod King; 06-01-2012 at 20:30.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Hello pushrod, tanks... But... Geez, have u noticed the 2000 refs on the aldon web site!

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Last edited by mad-max-09; 06-01-2012 at 20:59.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric Sud View Post
    Happy new year to you!
    My engine xflow is up and running! I still have a classic side exit ignitor. I am thinking of upgrading to an electronic ignitor. There are too many different brands with such a wide price range : aldon, bestek, pertronix, powermax...

    They propose différent advance curves : rally, fastroad, race.

    Does it mean you plug the new ignitor and it works straight away without the need of any adjustment With thé strobo lamp?

    With my 234 cam , which modèl would suit the best?

    Thanks for your help as i really don't understand much about these things.
    Hello,
    as you say you don't understand much about these things, here is a summary:
    The distributor controls with it's advance mechanisms (centrifugal advance as rpm goes up and vacuum advance as load on engine goes down). An engine with a different camshaft and twin carbs will need a modified distributor, mostly one with a faster mechanical advance curve and no vacuum advance. These modified distributor are sold by Aldon (103FX models) and Bestek for example.
    Normally, a set of points determines the ignition point; when the points open the current through the coils suddenly becomes 0 and the coil gives a high voltage spike. With electronic ignition, the set of points is replaced by something electronic. This can be a Aldon Ignitor (I or II), a Lumenition Magnecor or similar items or the points can be replaced by a sensor only. For example the 'magic eye' of a Lumenition Performance system or a Hall effect sensor. This sensor triggers a module outside the distributor which in turn switches the coil on and off.
    Pushrod King has an Aldon Ignitor in his (porobably) modified distributor.

    So for a proper electronic ignition system for your engine you will need a modified distributor and some replacement for the points.
    For example a Aldon 103FXY or 103FXR distributor with a Aldon Ignitor II module and matching coil.
    After the replace the distributor you always have to set the ignition timing again with a strobe light.

    Hope this helps.

    As it happens (!) I have a good Aldon 103FX distributor for sale fitted with a Bosch Hall electronic ignition (sensor under distributor cap, module outside).

    Regards, Leon.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Thanks Léon. I have been also looking into a souriau Bench to tune ignitors. Thé mechanism inside thé ignitor CAN normally be tweaked in order to attain thé desired curve. Bestek and aldon offer in fact 3 generic allround factory set curves....
    However, contact me via pm so we CAN discuss your aldon

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Otherwise, anybody tried 123 ignition system here?

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    hay just wondering if you knew what other distributors will work on the 1300 xflow motors having silly spark problems in my runner and this looks like a cheap and easy-ish fix. any help would be great.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    If you have a Motorcraft distributor change it to either Lucas or Bosch.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    I've just done the 2nd of my cars with this conversion my Mk2 Ghia ran so much smoother and better i thought id do the same on my Mk1 camper, i cant say i noticed the curve differance that much on the Mk2, it's certainly better on fuel now then it was before.

    Fitted it Saturday and adjusted the timing by ear for now, but it sounds much more responsive and smoother again.

    Only thing id say looking at the 1st lot of pics on here is why did you put the vacumn advance 180 degress out compared to the old dizzy ?
    It looks like you have had to extend the pipe to suit ?
    Autoelectrical & Diagnostics in Oxfordshire www.savvi.co.uk

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Was just reading this item and I recon I can answer some questions.

    1: advance curve. This will almost certainly be wrong as there are so many variations. If you are driving a higher mileage daily car in a respectable manor (boring) you will get away with it, if the engine is a bit hotter a re-curve is advised, someone posted a photo of a calibrating machine.

    2: Height of dizzy. as long as it has standard carb's height is not an issue. Webbers, Delortos or bike carbs will need a shorter unit with a right angle cap.

    3: Coil. A very good 1.5 ohm coil to use is the DLB198 lucas unit. Its perfect for the module and gives good performance. Bestek COL100 will also work.

    4: Module. These should last for ever but if you do have to change or remove it make sure you use silicone grease behind it to stop it overheating when putting it back.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    I've done over a thousand miles in my camper this Summer attending shows etc. it's a standard (boring) 1300 4 speed and yes being a camper I don't drive fast so as you say I don't notice the curve much, but it's been 100% reliable and fuel is much better then it was before, ive worked out im getting a good 35mpg if not slightly more so for me it's worthwhile.

    However I agree with a bigger tuned engine id be looking to get a proper converted one for the job !!!
    Autoelectrical & Diagnostics in Oxfordshire www.savvi.co.uk

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Hello Bestek,

    May I ask a question to check if I understand correct, regarding the " module " ? Above, you said that, we have to
    Apply silicon grease behind the module. Here, do " behind " mean behind the module or underneath the module ?

    Regards,

    Kerem

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    He's talking about between the module and the mounting face. Ideally you should use a good quality "heat-sink compound". The reason for this is that the output transistor in the module (used to trigger the coil) get's hot in use, so the aluminium plate/distributor body is used to dissipate the heat. The compound allows the heat to travel faster onto the heat sink. Without any compound the module could overheat and damage the transistor, rendering the module useless.

    I've never tried Silicon grease, but anything is better than nothing.

    Simon
    Last edited by runoutofrigos; 28-09-2013 at 16:55.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Simon,

    Thank you. Apparently, there are very special compounds for that purpose at the electronics and computer components shops.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    That's right. As I mentioned, they are called "heat sink compounds", and there are a variety available. "Arctic Silver and "Arctic Ice"" are two in particular, but like everything, you get what you pay for.

    A lot of the better quality transistors have thermal fuses in them, which means when they exceed their working temperature, they cut out. They will restore operation once the core cools enough, which is why some better quality ignition modules will fail, but then work again after a cooling period. The cheapy ones will overheat and burn out. Thermal problems with any sort of power transistor device is usually due to the heat sink compound being old and drying out. A good clean and new compound can fix a lot of problems.

    Unfortunately, a lot of mass-produced electronic goods use components that are just in tolerance with their ratings to keep the costs down. This leads, of course, to failures when things get a little too hot. Needless to say, the thermal compound is never great quality either, usually just enough to last the warranty period.

    Simon

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    These ultra high performance greases that you're supposed to use on cpu coolers are a bit of a con... no surprise there then. It's purpose is to fill any gaps in the 2 irregular surfaces, so gentle use of grinding paste and a flat surface can lessen the need for it if it's really uneven.

    Just to let you know, I use copperslip when rebuilding computers, and it works just fine. There's a website called Toms Hardware that proved that a slice of cheese can work adequately... well for a bit!

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Quote Originally Posted by runoutofrigos View Post
    That's right. As I mentioned, they are called "heat sink compounds", and there are a variety available. "Arctic Silver and "Arctic Ice"" are two in particular, but like everything, you get what you pay for.

    A lot of the better quality transistors have thermal fuses in them, which means when they exceed their working temperature, they cut out. They will restore operation once the core cools enough, which is why some better quality ignition modules will fail, but then work again after a cooling period. The cheapy ones will overheat and burn out. Thermal problems with any sort of power transistor device is usually due to the heat sink compound being old and drying out. A good clean and new compound can fix a lot of problems.

    Unfortunately, a lot of mass-produced electronic goods use components that are just in tolerance with their ratings to keep the costs down. This leads, of course, to failures when things get a little too hot. Needless to say, the thermal compound is never great quality either, usually just enough to last the warranty period.

    Simon
    Simon, Many thanks.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    I have a 1700 with a BCF2 cam in an old Dutton. The car uses a Mk 2 Fiesta loom so the previous owner fitted the Fiesta electronic dizzy as it was already wired for it. The car felt flat and unresponsive and refused to rev beyond 4500 rpm. No amount of adjusting made any difference. Yesterday the Fiesta stuff came out and went in the bin replaced with a brand new Accuspark 45D dizzy, coil and leads. The car now whizzes round to 7000 rpm and feels like it has double the power. Not sure why my engine didn't like the Fiesta conversion when others have had success with it but I'm glad it's been replaced.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    As the yanks say: "Your mileage may vary"

    Personally, the Fiesta Bosch distributor conversion in "Project Mum" was the best thing that had happened to that car in a long time, made a hell of a difference.

    Simon

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Bumping thread: One can use a module from an Alfa Giulietta : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALFA-ROMEO...-/300598761275 with the Bosch JGFU4 dizzy.
    It works very well and the engine pulls very well.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Hi,

    Do you have the wiring or at least the pin out for this module. Looks interesting and a good price

    Regards
    Tom
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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    I will have the pin-out somewhere.
    It's the same module as used on the Lucas AB boxes for the BDA engine.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Quote Originally Posted by Miniliteman View Post
    When fitting an electronic ignition system to your car, almost always it will need a full +12 Volts. The original points-based system will have a reistor-wire in the loom; the resistance of that wire is approx. 1 Ohm so if the new electronic ignition will need 4 Amps the battery voltage will only 8 Volts.

    Here's a photo-guide where to find the resister-wire in the loom. If the loom is in the car then it will be a bit more difficult.

    This is the main part of the loom; on the left you see the connector for the ignition-switch and on the right you can see the spade-connector for the startermotor (red/blue), the plug that goes on the starter for the ignition-wire-bypass and the plug (same sort) that goes to the coil +.
    This is LHD loom from a Kent engined Mk2 but a loom from a RHD and Pinto engined car is the same layout.



    Here's close-up from the ignition-switch connector:



    Here's close-up of the startermotor connections with the big feedthrough rubber as a reference.



    Now if you measure the resistance between the ignitionswitch black-yellow wire and the startermotor-ignition-wire (also black-yellow) you will see it is above 1 Ohm, in this case even 1.8 Ohm.



    Now you will have to remove some of the insulation tape on both ends. Starting at the ignitionswitch side you will find a joint a couple of inches from the connector. The wire that you want is the black one which from this joint goes further up in the loom.



    On the startermotor end you will find the same black wire (this is the resistor wire) is connected to both round plugs (one to starter, one to the coil +).



    To bypass this black wire, cut the wire at both ends but leave an inch or so so that you can connect another wire (2.5 mm2) to both ends using 'fastons'. The new wire can be taped in the loom (bit difficult with the loom in the car) or just can be run parallel to the loom and pushed through the large feedthrough towards the engine compartment.

    Hope this helps converting the points ignition to an electronic setup.

    Leon.
    Cheers Leon
    Note for anyone doing a mk1 escort (pinto engine but I believe loom is original) the black wire from the ignition down to the firewall connector is just a normal wire and out about a foot or 2, and you'll find the resistor wire joined to it, I cut it here and joined a new piece as far as the coil. Might save someone rooting too much in the loom, I did run a separate wire from ignition to the ignition module aswell, as some makers advise it. I'm running a bestek setup

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Quote Originally Posted by pmurp9x View Post
    Cheers Leon
    Note for anyone doing a mk1 escort (pinto engine but I believe loom is original) the black wire from the ignition down to the firewall connector is just a normal wire and out about a foot or 2, and you'll find the resistor wire joined to it, I cut it here and joined a new piece as far as the coil. Might save someone rooting too much in the loom, I did run a separate wire from ignition to the ignition module aswell, as some makers advise it. I'm running a bestek setup
    Take photos and post them here as an update to this thread.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Quote Originally Posted by Miniliteman View Post
    Take photos and post them here as an update to this thread.
    Can't take photos now as I have it all wrapped back up, reading back mightnt have been too clear. So there are 2 black wires in the loom from dash down to a loom split connector below the glove box area. No need to touch this part of the loom, in the engine bay you can see these 2 black wire from the split connector, the wire needed is easy to identify as you can eliminate the black wire which is much heavier maybe 3or4 mm sq (trigger for starter solenoid) . I followed the thinner wire down maybe 2 feet from the connector you'll see it changes to a resistor wire. I cut it here, l didn't bother removing the cut off wire just butt jointed a new stretch of wire to the coil. Simple

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    I have purchased this kit for my 1600 xflow and i cannot get it to work,i think its down to the timing but cannot get it to work at all
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-X-Flo...72.m2749.l2649
    Last edited by DBayliss; 02-08-2017 at 11:17.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    I got a Fiesta dizzy but the plug that fits onto it is missing. So I bought tiny electrical connectors to make my own. In what order are the wires please?
    Or can i experiment without killing the dizzy?
    Thanks.

    1700cc MK1 ESTATE DONE. MK1 2DR STARTED

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Does it look like this?

    Click image for larger version Name:	6641846200412212226.jpg Views:	85 Size:	79.4 KB ID:	81609

    Pin furthest away from centre is - coil, middle one is earth, 3rd one is +12V.
    Probably the little pins you want to use are not-insulated so beware of shorts.
    I would buy a suitable connector, they are just a couple of quid.
    Think Clint and other TS sponsors sell them.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Hi Miniliteman

    Could you please clarify the wiring as above.

    Does Pin furthest from the centre mean the from centre of the dissy thereby meaning the one at the bottom for the photo.

    I have inherited the old fiesta dissy to use on my latest project, that was in my old fury which I sold to a friend.
    When he rebuild the engine the top piston rings were broken, an engine builder told him it could have been due to too much advance at he top end!!
    He fitted an aldon dissy.
    I will be adjusting the advance this time using the DIY method as described on Daves build site as below.



    www.dvandrews.co.uk

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bentley View Post
    Does Pin furthest from the centre mean the from centre of the dissy thereby meaning the one at the bottom for the photo.
    Yes.

    Dave Andrews method of bending pins is not my favourite.

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    Re: How To... Convert crossflow to electronic ignition

    Thanks

    I have bought the proper plug only cost £5.50

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