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Thread: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

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    X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Just been looking on ebay at weber 45's when I came accross this link

    http://www.boggbros.co.uk/gallery.html

    It seams like a cheaper and more realiable alternative to webers,

    anyone had any experience of doing this?

    Cheers

    Dave

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    If you are going to all that hassle use bike TBs, still cheaper than new 45s.
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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    My mate has bike carbs and megajolt on his chevette and they are pretty damn good. For 330 he has the carbs, the manifold from bogg brothers and they cleaned the carbs and jetted them for his engine too and supplied the hose joiners and clips

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    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    I won't get drawn in on this one but i will say this.... in most classes carburation is free, and most of the runners still use Weber or Dell'orto's, now this could be because they are stuck in their ways.. but i have a feeling that its got something to do with power...

    Also Bike carbs are designed for bikes... ie engines that rev over 10k
    Car carbs are designed for cars ..

    I may just barking up the wrong tree...

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    I'm gonna look into this abit more before dismissing it all together,

    I been thinking that r1 carbs and a megajolt ecu would be pretty damn cool.

    This x-flow i've got is nicely tickled and will rev to 8k so its not that far off a bike engine.
    I've been searching on the net and I can't find another x-flow with the same setup, would be interesting to see the result

    At the moment I hav'nt got any carbs or a suitable dizzy, so the above setup would work out cheaper then the conventional webers and non vac dizzy setup.

    I'm gonna speak to bogg bros and take it from there.

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    My mate was saying the other day about one of his corsa mates had a set on his car and it took the engine from 152hp to 180hp just with the r1 carbs and probably an exhaust system. Not bad for 300 all in which is nearly what you will pay for a nice set of webers, then you have the manifold on top, the jetting session, the mounting accessories, etc.

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    the thing about that amazes me about running car engines on bike carbs is that they work at all let alone properly (maybe they dont work properly just better than what was fitted before)

    all the modern bike carbs hate modified bike engines and really hate running without their proper origonal air boxes and very few ever run properly again even with loads of jetting, reneedling and springing, i've had enough grief trying to get my bike to run properly on the same type engine just bigger with supposidly the correct jet kit and springs.

    it would be really intersting to see a direct compairson between a engine on both sidedrafts correctly jetting and a set of bike carbs again correctly jetted, my gut feeling is that there will be little difference but i bet it 50 times easier to get the sidedrafts spot on

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWRC

    This x-flow i've got is nicely tickled and will rev to 8k so its not that far off a bike engine.
    .
    not so sure about that i cant think of a 4cyl bike that only revs to 8k, most go to 12k plus these days, even my 1988 bike goes to 13k.

    although talking about revs is a bit misleading, airflow is the critacal thing a set amount of power requires a set amount of air whatever revs you use to get it.

    so a bike engine with about 140bhp at 12k will be comsuming the same amount of air as a 140bhp x/f at 7k

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr
    the thing about that amazes me about running car engines on bike carbs is that they work at all let alone properly (maybe they dont work properly just better than what was fitted before)

    all the modern bike carbs hate modified bike engines and really hate running without their proper origonal air boxes and very few ever run properly again even with loads of jetting, reneedling and springing, i've had enough grief trying to get my bike to run properly on the same type engine just bigger with supposidly the correct jet kit and springs.

    it would be really intersting to see a direct compairson between a engine on both sidedrafts correctly jetting and a set of bike carbs again correctly jetted, my gut feeling is that there will be little difference but i bet it 50 times easier to get the sidedrafts spot on
    That is why TBs are so much better, they are eaiser to set up (on a computer, not the workbench!). (It looks like one way or another you will be using an ECU so go and buy Dave Walkers Engine Management manual (it covers carbs too), Amazon is normally the cheapest).

    Some of the bikes are twin butterfly TBs running 4 interpolated maps!! Incredible stuff, but a basic motorbike TBs set up will sort you out. I know some one with an all steel xflow and BMW K1000 TBs and he can not praise them enough.
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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zetec_Escorts
    That is why TBs are so much better, they are eaiser to set up (on a computer, not the workbench!). (It looks like one way or another you will be using an ECU so go and buy Dave Walkers Engine Management manual (it covers carbs too), Amazon is normally the cheapest).
    .
    100% with you there, infact i keep trying to talk dave into putting my bike on management, but he doesn't want to rolling road it as bikes get a bit hairy on the rollers, i know hes done it in the past as years ago he put his GPZ900 on mapped ignition

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs *gonna give it a go!*

    Well i've decided to go ahead with the R1 carbs, if they don't work out i can always sell them on ebay and put the money towards some webbers.

    Picked some up earlier off a mate who was going to put them on his pinto.

    Im gonna speak to bogg bros tomorrow and send them off to have a manifold made

    Will drop some pics on later

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Spoke to bogg bros yesterday, they've done many cross flows and claim that these give very good results.
    There going to clean them, fit the correct jets for my engine spec, supply a manifold and joiners. All in price 240

    Heres some pics

    The R1 carbs



    My new pistons


    My new Vulcan head



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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    that looks interesting

    MY MK1 ESCORT (Now turbo'd)

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    If you are running without an airbox, block the main air corrector or you will never get a big enough main jet in them.You may also need to slow the slide speed down.Bike carbs can work really well on car engines when set up correctly.
    Give track & road a call.
    The only time you will get problems is when the carbs have been spaced apart and a crap linkage made.

    Injection is best but also costs

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    you can get some good secondhand twin 40's for 300 , they've been trying to out perform them for 30 years and it still hasn't happened . Bike carbs look good though , should be good for some pit lane intimidation . If you look at it this way , it's worth a go and you can always sell them on ebay if they don't work . Keep us posted as it's becomming a popular mod on here .

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    I have tuned bike carbs and injected bikes for many years for nearly every aplication.It used to be my day job.
    cars
    superbikes
    draw through turbo(early days big power)
    blow through turbo
    and supercharged
    Also resinent tuned length tuning(exhaust & inlet)
    Not forgetting Nitrous oxide system development(The dry manifold system was born here)
    I will try to put together a tuning guide for bike carbs from my own experience (not from a book)with lots of pics to try and help anyone doing this conversion.

    I will try to get it done for sunday evening.

    Carbs will never be as accurate as fuel injection but do work really well and cost pennies

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Ok here goes
    Ihave a set of 38mm R6 cards to use as an example



    Carb orientation,set them at the right angle.
    This looks good with a level float bowl line


    but this is correct for R6 carbs


    There are 3 fule circuits to take into consideration when tuning CV carbs and a 4th element of slide speed to consider

    When using bike carbs without an airbox they will run very lean and in most circumstances it will not be possible to fit a big enough main jet to compensate this because the hole required in the main jet will need to be as big as the hole it screws into.This can be overcome by blocking the air corrector.

    This will stop air flowing to the emulshon tube (wich is what the main jet screws into) in effect increasing the size of the STD main jet and give an accelerator pump type effect.
    DJ main jets also give an accelerator pump type effect because they are 1mm longer than STD jets,they sit 1mm deeper into the fuel in the bowl giving an extra charge readily available

    The same as raising the float level without the risk of pissing fuel out the back of the carbs.

    The needle can bev raised to richen mid range fuel delivery

    The needle is tapered and sits in the slide it meters mid range transient fueling.Its lift rate is controlled by slide lift holes.The spring controles low RPM flutter.

    As you open the throttle air rushes through the carbs ,pulling the vacume out from above the slides through the slide lift holes wich raises them.The size of the lift holes dictate how fast they will lift.In most cases on a car this will need to be slowed down.
    Nylon grub screw

    A nylon grub screw can be used to block the lift holes and redrilled as required.To slow a slide speed and throttle response will be slugish,to fast and it will over carb.
    PILOT CIRCUIT

    The pilot circuit(idle to 1/4 throttle)has 2 adjustments,the jet itself and the pilot screw.Turn the pilot screw out and it will richen the mixture ,any more than 3 turns out and a bigger pilot jet is required.




    Hope this informatoin is of help to anyone doing this converson
    Last edited by super six; 06-05-2006 at 21:52.

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    I read about these R1 and R6 carbs on the 205 GTI site, but they say only the R6 jet should be blocked off and leave the R1 alone. Is this right ??

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    He is a great guide to R1 bike carbs
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Thanks,

    I've already downloaded it sometime ago.

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    pics off my x-flow on r1 carbs




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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    what would be needed to use bike throttle bodies?

    would you need an ecu like a mega squirt ? or would it be more expencive than that?

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Hi, loggin' in from Adelaide, South Australia and I need some help with the Yamaha R1 1000 carb set up please.

    Can anyone supply pix of where all the hoses go?

    Mine are fitted to a mild 1600 Kent crossflow in a Mk 1 with a 5 speed etc etc etc

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    Racer DaveWRC's Avatar

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    easy job hose wise just connect the fuel inlet forget all the others


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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Too easy, thanks a lot!!!

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    im just finishing off my build and im using bogg brother mani on r1's on my pinto. its a standard pinto.

    have you had them running yet. are they easy to set up.

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Yes I've ran them for 2 years now, i used them straight out the box but last year just balanced them and they run even better. (well before my engine seized that is )

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Ok. Got my R1's fitted and somewhat running.

    What is involved in the balancing component?

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Take them off and look at the butterflys and set them up so that they all open and close in sync with eachother, if you hold them up to the light and look through the other side of the body at the butterfly you should see a small amount of light coming through each when shut and they all need to look the same. Failing that buy one of the gauges that you put in the end of it and do it that way

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Can somebody please take this measurement for me on Mikuni BDSR40 (R1 carbs outer dia of head side). Plz


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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Inside, I suppose, should be 40mm right ?

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrisV View Post
    Inside, I suppose, should be 40mm right ?
    Mine are 40mm. i just got some turbo hose so I could make the joiner to the manifold.

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Well, have them fitted and now balanced!!

    Very happy with the results, much smoother thru the rev range, no cough and splutter normally associated with weber/dellortos and the fuel economy is far better

    I will never recomend weber/dellorto combinations again.

    We had a car show here in Adelaide on Sunday last (All Ford Day) and the carbs caused quite a ruckus!!
    Me little Esky was the most discussed, talked about and photographed car on the day had 'em all stumped as it is not a common install here......yet.

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    Racer DaveWRC's Avatar

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Excellent I'm please they worked out well

    For you bike carb boys and girls here's a sneak preview of my new engine


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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    what are you using for filtering? or are there filters inside the trumpets?

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    For the last 2 years i've ran them with a the toe piece from a pair of tights stretched over each inlet then held in place with the trumpets.

    this year I'm going to sort some filters out, maybe a baseplate filter or seperate mini k&n's

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    do you have to faff around with the throttle cable much? got a pic?

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    wonder if you could cut the end off a twin 40 manifold, and clamp it to that?

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    The cable is easy just use a original escort 1100/1300 throttle cable and cut it down then clamp it to the linkage with a bycycle brake cable caliper bolt, same with the choke cable.

    I think they need to sit at a 45 degree angle

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    Re: X-flow on Yamaha R1 carbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham_S1 View Post
    do you have to faff around with the throttle cable much? got a pic?
    you can sometimes adapt a mounting bike brake cable for about 3 from halfords the 'cylinder' type end fits the carbs & just cut the other end & use one of those small cable clamps.
    Last edited by Ratters; 12-03-2009 at 18:04.

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