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Thread: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

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    Mechanic Cossie_Phil's Avatar

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    Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    Guys,here is a plot of my cars output.It is measured at the rear wheels in Kw.It equates to approx 420hp at the flywheel.Specs are as follows:

    Internals STD except YB0611 Gasket.
    2wd Exhaust Manifold with custom riser to suit GT28/40 Turbo.
    3inch Mandrel Bent Exhaust
    16mm spacer in inlet manifold.
    500mm x 300mm x 75mm intercooler.
    Autronic SMC ECU
    Siemens 872cc injectors
    25psi.

    Boost...the natural enemy of traction

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    I would have thought a GT28 would have made more boost a lot earlier what size are the turbines and Air Ratios out of interest.

    242Kw = 321BHP you cant be loosing 100BHP through the transmission.
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    Mechanic Cossie_Phil's Avatar

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    The average driveline loss figure quoted commonly in Oz is 25%-33%.I have just calculated it of the more generous percentage The gearbox is a cossie T5 and the rear axle is sized between and atlas and a 9inch,what do you think a realistic loss figure would be with these components?We dont really quote flywheel figures down here as most power graphs are produced on chassis dyno's.We will usually compare our cars quoting rear wheel killowatts which is what this graph shows and what most of our dyno's read.My turbo has a .86ar rear housing and .70ar front housing with a 53mm compressor inducer dia and a 47mm turbine exducer dia.It could probably be tuned to come on a little earlier which I will probably find out soon as an updated ecu/injectors and ignition are on the cards with arguably the best cossie tuner in Oz to do the mappingI dont really want/need any more top end but if we can fatten up the mid range it will be nice
    Boost...the natural enemy of traction

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    Uk chassis dyno's or rolling roads as you call them just make rough calculations to estimate power at the flywheel and are probably generous in the asumption too.
    This is why in Australia we take power readings on chassis dyno's at the wheels rather than calculations to convert to an estimated engine power.

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    I would have thought a GT28 would have made more boost a lot earlier what size are the turbines and Air Ratios out of interest.

    242Kw = 321BHP you cant be loosing 100BHP through the transmission.
    Actually have a look at a post in the cossie power part of the forum by cossie_cabrio titled rolling road graph which shows a estimated power at the flywheel and actual power at the wheels. 340bhp at the flywheel and 240bhp at the wheels.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User markb's Avatar

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    Quote Originally Posted by fehlbie View Post
    Uk chassis dyno's or rolling roads as you call them just make rough calculations to estimate power at the flywheel and are probably generous in the asumption too.
    This is why in Australia we take power readings on chassis dyno's at the wheels rather than calculations to convert to an estimated engine power.

    interesting comment... i may well be wrong but my understanding is that the uk rolling roads or chassis dynos as you know them (assuming they're the same) measure the torque at the wheels and then calculate bhp off of that measurement, so i'm not sure how your statement would actually stand up in that situation... although i will certainly admit that a lot of tuners in the UK seem to massage the figures a fair bit to give the results the owner expects/has been told to expect.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User markb's Avatar

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    just re-read that and i'm actually agreeing with you!

    please ignore my previous statement!

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    I love discussions about dynos

    I cant see how any RR can really give an accurate flywheel figure, when they measure the resistance in the driveline it is normally on the overun so there is no power being supplied.
    The frictional losses through a transmission will be less on overrun than on power.

    they are all estimates, some are better than others.

    Dyno dynamics machines here have an option for quoting flywheel power, but it does say its an estimate, I think from experience it seems to to be around 25% extra on top of the wheel power, thats probably a bit generous unless you have huge sticky tyres with a low pressure in them, or extra thick oil in the gearbox, most good RWD cars probably only lose around 20%.

    Dyno Dynamics are the most popular machines here, and they are suposed to be very accurate and more importantly identical from one garage to another provided the correct temperature and atmospheric calculations are done
    But it is fairly easy to get different reading on a dyno dynamics machine by not strapping tightly enough, or by using different tyre pressures, a few of the tuners on them have been known to cheat by having loose straps for a few extra KW, we have seen a few in at work that were tested on an identical machine to ours produce different figures

    So for everyone here in Aus who thinks they all have an accurate dyno sheet think again

    As for the quoted figure being crank or wheel power, I personally want to know crank outputs, (even if they are estimates) as every car manufacturer in the world quotes the power that the engine makes, not the power at the rear wheels, it just seems a more useful comparison.

    People get really hung up on dyno sheets and quoted power figures, I will never understand why, everyone wants a piece of paper to give them increased bragging rights, I have seen lots of people throw a hissy fit if their car makes less power on dyno B than it did on dyno A, they start whinging and moaning about the dyno being inacurate, I have never seen anyone moan if it makes more power though, I have known people to travel to 3 or 4 different dynos on a quest for a better power run, and at the end of the day if they have a piece of paper that says they have another few BHP they believe they really have got it

    all chassis dynos (RR's) cant be trusted as 100% accurate, so are only any good on a first run as a guide to real power output, and from then on are much more useful to check for improvements and losses based on changes that have been made.
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    Mechanic Cossie_Phil's Avatar

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    Well the next stage of development has started....SM4 Autronic ECU,changed injectors to Bosch Motorsport 363's,MSD Dis4 CDI Ignition with 4 MSD Blaster SS coils.The same internally std engine(which is due for a rebuild with 13% cylinder leakdown)and GT28/40 turbo.Another friend of mine is doing the current tune which has only been partially completed with a conservative ignition curve to 12psi(interference from the coils was inducing a missfire).He has a few more tricks up his sleeve .The pic below is the one and only power run that was completed before a minor ecu hiccup.It still managed a healthy 253rwhp @ 12psi boost

    Boost...the natural enemy of traction

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    Mechanic Cossie_Phil's Avatar

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    This is the latest power plot...now 349hp at the rear wheels



    Boost...the natural enemy of traction

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    Nice work Phil.
    She must go like a rocket now!!

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    Aren't big turbos fun

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    Mechanic Cossie_Phil's Avatar

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    Re: Cossied Mk1 Cortina with T28

    Sure are!!! :p
    Boost...the natural enemy of traction

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