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Thread: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

  1. #281
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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    intresting thread, ive read thro this about 10 times now and still cant work out if its worth doin or not, or just do the mainfold? but then my problem is i use a pinto manifold but the the other way, so would this affect the mods in any way as now my #1 inlet (was #4 on pinto) goes up hill abit????

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    in my opinion the way to go is mod the manifold, and the throttle spindles, dont bother with thinning the aux vents, and im not sure its worth opening out the chokes

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  4. #283
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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    in my opinion the way to go is mod the manifold, and the throttle spindles, dont bother with thinning the aux vents, and im not sure its worth opening out the chokes
    I would agree with that. I got no more power after boring out the chokes, but I did lose driveability.
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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by exboyracer View Post
    I would agree with that. I got no more power after boring out the chokes, but I did lose driveability.
    IIRC yours was on an x/flow? i think something more powerfull might gain a bit by opening the chokes but i dont think theres a huge amount to be had, and i certainly would go more than 1mm up on each choke

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Howdy
    Are the car clinic still about. Where can the 32/36 bell mouths be bought from? Thanks

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    http://escort.accelerator.org
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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Thanks.
    I received a prompt reply from Martin today. The items haven't been manufactured for 8 years due to poor sales.
    With webers being so cheap now I guess most would just opt for a brand new 38/38.

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    I must have got one of the last ones then!
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    hi from wher can i buy it pls Domenic

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by exboyracer View Post
    I've never had to replace the power valve, I've never had any problems with it either

    On a slightly different topic, I ordered one of these the oter day


    Had an interesting chat with the owner, he runs a race car with an essex V6 which is restricted my the race regs to running the original carb, a 38DGAS, ableit heavily modified.
    He's managed to get 280-odd BHP out of it which just goes to show what can be done with a single downdraught
    He also mentioned that his carb hat netted a dyno-proven 9hp gain.

    hi from wher can i buy it pls? Domenic

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    You can't buy them any more - see post #287
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    This use to give 2-3 hp by removing the flaps , and upto 6 hp with the trumpets , but Graham is right in the winter its a pig till warm.

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Wow this is a very interesting thread. I am just doing some similar mods on a pierburg 2e carb for a nova. Racing regs dont permit many mods to engines etc, so anything we can get out of the carb is a bonus! Vizards book tuning for horsepower vol 2 is very useful, its all based on big four barrel carbs but the principals remain the same.

    Has anyone played around with different size booster venturi's? I'd be interested so see the effect of smaller or larger venturis on both power and drivability. I have smoothed out casting marks and improved flow into the carb mouths as well as carried the mods on the throttle spindles and butterfly screws. This definately gives more especially at the top end. Interstingly I tried a body with larger chokes, but it was awful at low speed, and had more power at peak revs, but not where its useable on a rally car!!

  15. #294
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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by packman View Post
    This use to give 2-3 hp by removing the flaps , and upto 6 hp with the trumpets , but Graham is right in the winter its a pig till warm.

    on road cars i used to remove the choke flaps and spindle, cut the spindle in half and just refit the primary choke, provided you drove with a light foot and didnt drop into the secondary throttle whilst driving on a cold engine it was ok,

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Its quite rewarding when little things make a difference also i did find this does not always work on other makes of carbs.

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    I've got a 32DFT with a manifold for my nova and have started modifying it according to what's been discussed in this thread. Is this carb adequate for a 1400 nova with a AST3 (Rally-Copetition) Cam and a big valve ported head?

    Thanks in advance

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Anyone?

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    i would of thought so, but i really dont know.

    i assume your road rallying and are not allowed twin carbs? because if you can use a pair of 40's you will be much better off

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Yup, road rally car so only 2 chokes allowed.

    Plans are:
    Remove choke flap 2
    Knife edge choke 1 flap and spindle
    Knife edge butterflies
    Reduce both butterfly spindles
    Bore chokes from 22mm to 24mm as 32/34DFT

    Should flow a bit better then.

    Thanks for the input, If it doesn't flow enough I'll chuck a DGAS on there.

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro Motorsport View Post
    Yup, road rally car so only 2 chokes allowed.

    Thanks for the input, If it doesn't flow enough I'll chuck a DGAS on there.
    What about this IDF convertor here? :

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=310867

    You get to keep your two chokes then and can increase up to big sizes!

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    I've got the 32 DFT already so thought might as well mod that or buy a DGAS as it's only a 1400 and an IDF would be overkill, Ready to be proven wrong though haha

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    slightly off topic but porting the inlet manifold to increase the radius where the manifold runners meet so the mixture has less of a sharp turn after leaving the carb pays good dividends
    No machinery to back this up, but i did this by hand on my stock kent GT intake (esp on cyls 1 and 4 with the longer bends), took me 4 hours!! - and after back cutting the valves and stems with an angle grinder and a drill i noticed a big difference in how the motor sounded, like i could hear the extra airflow. I followed Vizards book on porting and went pretty far before tha. Huge improvements here

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    anyway - VERY interesting read.. lol i feel sorry for all the chaps that went and bored their chokes out to find the gains were negligible! I have a 1600 X-flow 60 over, 1300 (stock) pistons, unknown cam but lobes are quite fat compared to 234 ive had - sweet spot kicks in about 2500<. single 3" exhaust and long tube headers. I have maxxed out valves in head and ported following vizards advice, even the guide bosses were reduced and smoother out.. I back cut the valves and narrowed the stems above the face for more flow. I hand filed the inlet manifold trying to make the corners less sharp -and have a 32/36 dgv on there. Float height is set at 45mm -

    can anyone help me with jetting?

    I started out with 135/140 and 160/180 50/55.. At first i had 140/180 and 135/160, played around quite a bit.. car feels like it surges at part throttle (on primaries) - when secondaries open i feel the power coming thru. on 45 idles I had a flat spot, i tried my BEST to get decent power from stock mains/idles and airs. eventually i drilled out mains to 150 and air to 200 on pri side.. idle jet to 60 - quite a bit more power but runs rich! I read about someone here putting wire down the ide air tubes - im thinking of trying this, since he got great response and no more flat spot by actually richening the idle mixture via the air tube instead of jetting a richer idle jet.

    When im part throttle on primaries (just before secs come in) - the car kind of stays stuck power wise - u can hear the engine kind of surging / wanting more of something (fuel) or less (air)..

    any ideas? Im thinking of opening the secs a bit sooner as i find myself mashing it to get a decent kick out of the car.. would be nice if we had exponential flaps that opened faster the more u opened them.. almost like an accelarated accelarator.. im feeling the pri's are just not delivering in the 2nd hald of their operation..

    thoughts?


    the car starts first time every morning without a hitch. Im at 12 initial, and have a light and med spring in dozy (havent mapped adv rate as my equus light was stolen!!!) - anyway, the tune is quite good and i think the adv is working well, but of course this is assumption/lunacy. If we presumed my adv curve was ok.. what jetting can i try??
    Last edited by fstarocka; 31-07-2013 at 18:12.

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Miller View Post
    ............................
    where would you get one of them now not made any more

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    thought i would resurrect this thread with a little story and then some facts.

    in my youth when i had no money and a 2.0 capri i looked to try and make it faster without spending anything, i took the head off and lapped the valves and fitted a mk2 RS2000 exhaust manifold and down pipe i found in a scrap yard attached to a mk3 cortina, looking to see what else i could do i took the choke flaps out the carb, i swore it was a lot faster afterwards, but it was a pain to live with on my short drives to and from work, so i cut the choke spindle in half and refitted half a spindle and only the primary flap, that was ok as long as you were gentle on the throttle on a cold engine, i was still pleased with how much better my car went......

    .....fast forward 30 odd years i find i have a totally standard pinto with freshly lapped valves and an ashley 421 on my dyno, after being sure i had wrung as much as i possibly could out of the engine i decided to remove the choke flaps and see how much power i gained, i thought i would see a bit as i had seen a small gain on the flowbench removing them.

    yes i did gain power





    i did several pulls to prove it, but i did gain power....
    ...
    ...

    ...

    one bhp!

    maybe you would see more on a modified engine, but clearly my big power gains when i was young were in my head!
    Last edited by Graham; 01-04-2021 at 20:01.

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  28. #306
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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Lol, and a little noisier exhaust also gained a lot of horses i recall. Good days

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    thought i would resurrect this thread with a little story and then some facts.

    in my youth when i had no money and a 2.0 capri i looked to try and make it faster without spending anything, i took the head off and lapped the valves and fitted a mk2 RS2000 exhaust manifold and down pipe i found in a scrap yard attached to a mk3 cortina, looking to see what else i could do i took the choke flaps out the carb, i swore it was a lot faster afterwards, but it was a pain to live with on my short drives to and from work, so i cut the choke spindle in half and refitted half a spindle and only the primary flap, that was ok as long as you were gentle on the throttle on a cold engine, i was still pleased with how much better my car went......

    .....fast forward 30 odd years i find i have a totally standard pinto with freshly lapped valves and an ashley 421 on my dyno, after being sure i had wrung as much as i possibly could out of the engine i decided to remove the choke flaps and see how much power i gained, i thought i would see a bit as i had seen a small gain on the flowbench removing them.

    yes i did gain power





    i did several pulls to prove it, but i did gain power....
    ...
    ...

    ...

    one bhp!

    maybe you would see more on a modified engine, but clearly my big power gains when i was young were in my head!
    if you look at the picture above you wil see there was a slight bend in one of the flaps, would that of had an effect? not sure, so ive just re run this test with the bent flap replaced on an engine making a little over 140bhp. After properly warming it up and doing several "pulls" i did 3 back to back runs and let the software average the 3 runs, again power changed by ONE bhp, except this time it was down one bhp, as a control i refitted the flaps and redid the runs, and the lost bhp was back.

    i did find a way it was slightly better without the flaps, but thats in an upcoming CF issue

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post

    i did find a way it was slightly better without the flaps, but thats in an upcoming CF issue
    Ive got a subscription to Classic Ford, and im rubbing my hands together in anticipation of your next pinto shenanigans on the engine dyno.

    I too was a young man trying to wring as much power out of my 2.0 Pinto, on a budget many years ago, and this reminds me of my old days reading c.c.c magazine and the
    David Vizard books.
    http://www.scooternations.com/

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by capri dave View Post
    Ive got a subscription to Classic Ford, and im rubbing my hands together in anticipation of your next pinto shenanigans on the engine dyno.

    I too was a young man trying to wring as much power out of my 2.0 Pinto, on a budget many years ago, and this reminds me of my old days reading c.c.c magazine and the
    David Vizard books.
    your going to love the upcoming intake manifold tests, not to mention the one after where im attacking a 32/36 with drills, files and a milling machine

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by capri dave View Post
    Ive got a subscription to Classic Ford, and im rubbing my hands together in anticipation of your next pinto shenanigans on the engine dyno.

    I too was a young man trying to wring as much power out of my 2.0 Pinto, on a budget many years ago, and this reminds me of my old days reading c.c.c magazine and the
    David Vizard books.
    your going to love the upcoming intake manifold tests, not to mention the one after where im attacking a 32/36 with drills, files and a milling machine

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    yes your right, im eagerly awaiting...

    I tried all the tricks with the DGAV and manifold, on a stage 3 head and 285 degree cam, enlarging the runners where they meet the plenum, just under the carb and trying to make it easier for the gasses to negotiate the turn, raising the carb slightly too, filing down the throttle shafts, knife edging butterflys, boring out chokes etc etc.

    I remember going on my first test drive ( i couldnt afford dyno time back then) and being amazed that the car wouldnt except full throttle until i upped both main jets to 165.
    had i really created all that extra air flow through the carb, or had i made the signal over the main jets so weak i now needed massive jets to achieve the same thing...
    of course you can guess which theory i liked to believe.
    Last edited by capri dave; 21-09-2021 at 16:04.
    http://www.scooternations.com/

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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36


  35. #313
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    Re: Removing Choke Butterflies from 32/36

    Quote Originally Posted by capri dave View Post
    yes your right, im eagerly awaiting...

    I tried all the tricks with the DGAV and manifold, on a stage 3 head and 285 degree cam, enlarging the runners where they meet the plenum, just under the carb and trying to make it easier for the gasses to negotiate the turn, raising the carb slightly too, filing down the throttle shafts, knife edging butterflys, boring out chokes etc etc.

    I remember going on my first test drive ( i couldnt afford dyno time back then) and being amazed that the car wouldnt except full throttle until i upped both main jets to 165.
    had i really created all that extra air flow through the carb, or had i made the signal over the main jets so weak i now needed massive jets to achieve the same thing...
    of course you can guess which theory i liked to believe.
    im sure you have already seen it but heres the manifold spacer test

    https://youtu.be/kYrheF0ta1Q

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