Ignition timing

[rob800]

Really need help xflow 1600 Bcf2 cam Aldon ignition flamethrower coil,replaced ballast wire ,twin 40s,side exit etcetc
when turning engine over has loads of compression,there are a few things I'm not too sure I have done right .
when replacing points it had green ground wire to condenser? The new ign only had red black to go to coil.
pointed new rotor arm towards cyl no 1,and corresponding leads to 1243on dizzy cap
fuel is getting to carbs,when and if it does start it pops and bangs and flames come out trumpets

[Miniliteman]

Turn distributorbody a few mm to advance the timing.

[rob800]

I've tried that nothing made any difference,and now it doesn't seem to want to start at all

[Miniliteman]

Did you put the ignitionleads on 1243 clockwise or anti-clockwise?

[rob800]

Anti clockwise the way the rotor goes

[katana]

Did you put the ignitionleads on 1243 clockwise or anti-clockwise?

Strange sequence? Usually 1342 on most things - does sound like at least one / two of the cylinders are 180 degrees out?

[racing escort]

No, crossflow is like that !

[Graham]

Strange sequence? Usually 1342 on most things - does sound like at least one / two of the cylinders are 180 degrees out?

cross flow is odd, 1243 is correct.

it dates back to really old sidevalve engines i believe, where the cam was actually two short but identical cams inserted from either end of the block, and thus an odd firing order resulted

[katana]

Everyday's a skool day!

[rob800]

Still getting nowhere ,there is a spark ,there is fuel.im using a standard mechanical fuel pump as I was told it would do,I do have two other stand alone pumps I can use,red top and silver top
Had some extremely loud back fires like a shotgun going off in my ear.....
There was a small fuel leak coming from carbs so I whipped them off and sorted that
If by some chance I have been putting leads on dizzy wrong
Rotor arm point to cylinder no 1
Side exit dizzy is pointing to chassis leg

[rob800]

surely theres only so many times i could get it wrong?
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[alladdin]

Assuming you had dizzy out.
Swap 1 with 4 and 2 with 3
And try it.


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[Miniliteman]

With piston no.1 at TDC and valves closed (firing stroke) point rotor to the protruding lip on the distributor body near the clip for the cap (in the centre of pic no.2 ).
Then facing the side exit cap (pic no. 2 again) bottom right is lead to no.1, top right to no.2, top left to no.4 and bottom left to no.3 (and centre to coil ...).

[wildo105e]

Still getting nowhere ,there is a spark ,there is fuel.im using a standard mechanical fuel pump as I was told it would do,I do have two other stand alone pumps I can use,red top and silver top

Mechanical should be fine for starting purposes. I run a Lotus TC still with mechanical pump, remember they were standard on a TC. With the ignitor i ran the red wire to the coil (live) and the black to the coil - Negative. It sounds like you are getting spark as you are getting back fires.

On mine bottom left is 1 bottom right is 2 followed by top right 3 and 4 top left. Mine is a different dissy though and i think it really just depends on where the position is on TDC and you match that.

I will try and attach some pics if it helps but they are not the best.

here we go

[davemk1]

Are you absolutely sure your firing the right cylinder at the right time?
Could it be firing 180 degrees out?
If your igniting fuel in the inlet manifold could it be firing with the inlet valve slightly open as on cam overlap?
With your dizzy firing no1 see if you have any free play on the tappets at tdc on no1 cylinder, if not , check the ones on no4 cylinder. if these have some play then your probably180 out. Also check the valve clearances are correct.

Good luck and please let us know when you've found out what the problem is.

Dave

[rob800]

I set the valves according to what Kent cams say,there wasn't any free play on no 1 cylinder,pretty sure I got it right though no 4 rocking? 1 closed,like I say everything is new,new dizzy etc,had a thought yesterday that it might be the rev limiter not earthed as that will stop the engine starting apparently.
Feel sorry for the battery it's been flattened so many times,what is the correct cranking amp battery the one I got sold was 45?

[katana]

To check ign. is basically right, you remove valve cover and bring #1 cylinder to TDC. rod through plug hole - don't trust marks or dots at this stage! If both rockers have clearance ie 'click clack' then you are on the firing stroke and the rotor should be pointing at #1 lead. If they don't have clearance, then leave piston where it is and check the other pairs of rockers till you find the 2 with clearance. Anything other than #1 is incorrect and you'll have to re-set the dizzy position and possibly the cam - crank position!

[rob800]

And cam timing will be engine out again?does it make a difference if it has duplex springs? Re: rockers clacking?

[alladdin]

Have you tried what I said above ? It's a 2 min job


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[rob800]

Yes tried rocker arms clacking away dizzy set leads on refuses to do anything....bloody thing

[Mkdu]

I've installed the mine like you did. No problem to fire up the engine.
But had the same symptoms 2 times with a bad dizzy, was only when engine was hot, but like you, bang, back fire, ...
Was a default component of the electronic. one module was Defect on arrival, after the replacement, did less than 100km, and again bang,....

Try to borrow another dizzy to check ? even a genuine one.

[alfas]

if it pops and bangs the timing is wrong.

caused by several thing:

leads plugged-in into wrong hole in cap
firing order (leads) not ok --> swap leads
general timing not right --> turn dizzy in correct position

weber or dellorot carbs?

if dellorto´s : they often dont start without pulling the choke-cable (which you might havent fit)

[rob800]

Well after much faffing and arseing about,who said having a wcxm was a good idea? The pain in the arse of getting the starter in and out,starter was sounding lazy so took it out cleaned it checked brushes etc all good bench tested it span up well,refitted it all new battery more cca she fired right up ran for 20 secs then died now I have no spark....got 12v to pos side of coil, but don't know how to test elec ign,trying to find more information about it any help/ideas would be great

[Miniliteman]

To diagnose this you really need a ignition-scope and/or a distributor-tester.
Go back to "proven technology": fit points and try again.
If you have removed the resistor wire use a 3 Ohm coil with the points.

[rob800]

yes think im going to have to try points

[wildo105e]

Take the coil that lead out of the dissy and see if you get a spark from the coil. Or lift of the dissy cap and crank you should get a spark etc this how I tested mine when the rotor arm failed

[snapper1]

Is the problem with the coil?
I understand the points coil and electronic distributor could can be different, 12v & 9 bolt ballasted
This is just a wild stab in the dark as a friend changed to aucuspark on his daughter MG Midget and had the same issue

[rob800]

Well found the problem the module is fried and the magnet has a small pit in the side,so bought a different one a lumention magnetronic and a different coil 12 v non ballast,I don't know if the flamethrower coil is knackered so might as well change the lot,was going to buy the optronic but didn't really want to waste £200+