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Thread: Axle modification information

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Axle modification information

    Hi all,

    i have been searching and searching on the internet for information on the fitting of the atlas axle to a mk2 escort. I have found out you can have the atlas axles narrowed, so I emailed fostek engineering on Monday (although haven't heard anything as yet)

    i am new to the escort scene, I just wanted to know - when I get the axle narrowed will it fit straight on? Do you have to modify the mountings? I cannot find one thread on any website to say about fitting one.

    also does anyone know how much it costs to have an axle/half shafts narrowed? As I say I have emailed the specialtist but no reply as yet. I get no signal at work and get home when the company are shut so phoning them isn't possible at the moment.

    thanks
    kris

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    Re: Axle modification information

    you wont here anything back from fostek, tom sold the business and i dont think its currently trading

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    you wont here anything back from fostek, tom sold the business and i dont think its currently trading
    Ah ha, no wonder there is no reply, can you recommend another company?

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Arrow Auto Engineering. I'm sure Fostek would recommend Andy@ArrowAutoEngineering (if you could get a response!).

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    Re: Axle modification information

    not personally although this guy gets good reviews

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=162072

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmp View Post
    Hi all,

    i have been searching and searching on the internet for information on the fitting of the atlas axle to a mk2 escort. I have found out you can have the atlas axles narrowed, so I emailed fostek engineering on Monday (although haven't heard anything as yet)

    i am new to the escort scene, I just wanted to know - when I get the axle narrowed will it fit straight on? Do you have to modify the mountings? I cannot find one thread on any website to say about fitting one.

    also does anyone know how much it costs to have an axle/half shafts narrowed? As I say I have emailed the specialtist but no reply as yet. I get no signal at work and get home when the company are shut so phoning them isn't possible at the moment.

    thanks
    kris
    Why do you want to fit an Atlas axle? Are you planning on going for a lot of power?

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Well I already have a brooklands lsd atlas axle at home as I bought it about 8 years ago. I had more money then and was going to fit it to my escort and do the Forrest arches.

    Now I don't have as much money and not going to do the arches etc. So wanted to have to axle narrowed to make life easier for me. I have an XE I will be fitting in a year or so, it would be about 180bhp, nothing huge power. What would you recommend? I already have the axle, had heard they are stronger and I plan to have some fun in the car and prob do some hill climbs like I did with my mini.


    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Axle modification information

    You could try giving the Squires Bros a ring at Rally and competition Equipment, they specialise in Atlas axles. You'll get some sort of idea what the cost is going to be then.

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyWhiteTrash View Post
    Arrow Auto Engineering. I'm sure Fostek would recommend Andy@ArrowAutoEngineering (if you could get a response!).
    Thanks for that, I have given him a ring and he has explained everything involved and prices for any extra works like wheel bearings, leafspring brackets etc. Very helpful and knowledgable

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmp View Post
    Thanks for that, I have given him a ring and he has explained everything involved and prices for any extra works like wheel bearings, leafspring brackets etc. Very helpful and knowledgable

    Thanks
    Kris
    Glad you're sorted!

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Why not stick with the English and sell the atlas

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Well tbh I don't know how strong the English axles are, I will be using an XE in a year or so which would only be about 170-180bhp, but I do want to have some fun in the car and use it for some motorsport. Nothing mad like proper rallying as that's too expensive, but have thought about doing some targa rallies in it. From doing google research which actually brings up a lot of threads from this forum - I have found a lot of people fit the atlas axles for strength. The only people I know personally with escorts who I could ask advice have rally cars and costs wouldn't be an issue to them so it wouldn't be very helpful to me as I couldnt afford the setups then have.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    I'm using an english axle with standard half shafts for targa rallies and autotesting for the last 4 years, never had a failure. English axles are stong if built right and not abused. I'm running an xe now too the last few months no problems. Worst case scenario you could upgrade the half shafts but definitely no need for an atlas with a mild xe with a bit of club Motorsport

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    Re: Axle modification information

    National hotrods run English axles 230bhp 10"wide slicks and don't have a problem

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    Re: Axle modification information

    There's no reason not to use the English axle on your car KMP especially if you already have a good LSD fitted. The weakest parts tend to be the Halfshafts if abused. Paddle clutches and Grand Prix starts are killers for the Shafts. The axle casings will eventually bend like a Banana if abused Yumping on rough Rallies, however these can be strengthened.

    It's not a cheap option to fit a basic Atlas axle with LSD and low ratio CWP.

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    Re: Axle modification information

    I also run a english with around 200 hp and 220nm of torque, and I'm still afraid of a failure, but still there. With tran-X halfshaft.
    Running a atlas is more secure I think. Next upgrade....
    As said, it's not a cheap option.

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Adrian Hall has been using an english for years 280hp and slicks as wide as your front door.

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    Re: Axle modification information

    I would rather use the english axle, it would be easier for me and I can sell the brooklands axle to fund the lsd.

    Would you recommend a quaife atb or another type? The brooklands axle had a zf plate type diff, which I liked the sound of because I am under the impression plate diffs lock easier?

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Axle modification information

    an atb doesnt lock at all, its torque biasing so will try to send torque to the wheel with most grip, BUT if you lift or almost lift a wheel you will no drive to the wheel which has the grip

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    Re: Axle modification information

    I have a titan lsd in my english axle. And very happy with it.

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmp View Post
    Would you recommend a quaife atb or another type? The brooklands axle had a zf plate type diff, which I liked the sound of because I am under the impression plate diffs lock easier?

    Thanks
    Kris
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    an atb doesnt lock at all, its torque biasing so will try to send torque to the wheel with most grip, BUT if you lift or almost lift a wheel you will no drive to the wheel which has the grip
    Second that - it begs the question what good they are at all as where does the point of it not working arrive! I never recommend fitting them! Plus they aren't tunable in terms of how it can be set-up to compliment a cars' characteristics or a drivers particular style like a plate type diff can be.
    I would go for a Gripper, Titan or a 3J NXG diff.
    Last edited by HonkyWhiteTrash; 27-11-2016 at 20:22.

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    Re: Axle modification information

    atbs seem to work quite well in front wheel drive cars, where a conventional diff can be near impossible to steer once the diff locks and in any case they are not prone to lifting the inside drive wheel

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    Re: Axle modification information

    ATB diffs seem to be quite bad for torque steer on FWD and 4 wheel drive cars, I had a 4x4 Cosworth and that was the always the case with the Quaife front diff.

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    Re: Axle modification information

    i kinda think any kind of diff in fwd is good for torque steer, all the powerfull fwd cars ive driven with lsds (none have been atb) torque steered all over the shop

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Thanks again for the information, I have only ever had front wheel drive cars, so how rwd's work or benefit from different modifications/setups is something I am learning quickly.

    This diff sounds good:

    http://www.burtonpower.com/3j-drivel...ne-lsd3j3.html

    The sprint/hill climb setup sounds good, I would like it to lock quite quickly but the rally option has the deceraltion lock which wouldn't be any good for what I would need. So just to confirm it would be this setup:

    Track/Sprint/Hill climb: Ramp angles 40/90, Preload 55-60lbs/ft

    Any advice will be gratefully received.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Axle modification information

    you should discuss the setup directly with the manufacturer, they'll provide you the best advice for your application.

    I'd rather go for 30/60.
    xx/90 will give you an open diff on deceleration, which is not really an LSD is build for.

    if you have time, read this, the guy is really know that stuff.
    http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...788992&page=10

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Quote Originally Posted by Mkdu View Post
    you should discuss the setup directly with the manufacturer, they'll provide you the best advice for your application.

    I'd rather go for 30/60.
    xx/90 will give you an open diff on deceleration, which is not really an LSD is build for.
    depends on driving style and event, i prefer a more open diff on deceleration, i dont want the arse end swinging out when i lift!

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    i dont want the arse end swinging out when i lift!
    So you need to keep it 'flat out' ;-)

    But I agree, xx/90 is safer and easy driving. I had a 30/90 and very good for fast road or non race events.

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Something I had thought about, and someone mentioned it on that link you gave me a couple posts up, was that having the wheels drag through diff locking on deceleration surely is only good on gravel tracks? On the road it would be like having a brake on, I can see the benifits for an out and out rally driver but I am convinced that isn't the way fwd for me. Someone on that thread had it originally setup to lock on deceleration and it wasn't until he had a new diff fitted without it that he realised how much better it was without.

    So I would like it to be locked just on acceleration, I do like the idea of it being locked fairly easily. Which is why I suggested the sprint setup? as it means it would lock quicker than normal without being like a welded diff.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Axle modification information

    better to talk to the builder of LSD, titan was very helpfull for me. Sure the guy at 3J is nice also. I had advice from both and run products for them.
    I've bought directly from titan, and from Tran-X (now 3J driveline).

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboman View Post
    National hotrods run English axles 230bhp 10"wide slicks and don't have a problem
    thats not true. why do you think there are hardly any 3.77 diffs left? and escort halfshafts?

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Hi Remember reading an article in one of the ford Magazines and it was talking about shortening an axle by 1" a side by cutting 1" of tube from each side then weld back up and as the splines are long enough you can cut 1" from shafts. Shortens axly by 2".
    Anybody done this and how strong is it
    Bought a atlas axle with escort spent quite a bit dong it up and now finding getting wheels to fit a bit hard seems it is a STD Capri axle would be good to shorten axle or find wheels with a + 40 offset or something.

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    Re: Axle modification information

    If you're planning on doing motorsport then I'd defo go for an Atlas, sure and English might do but you'll be rebuilding it often. I run one and have to rebuild it regularly, plus with your XE if you tune it more in future then you'll need an Atlas anyway, so why go to the expense of building a semi strong English with limitations when you can put the money in to an axle that will suit any future mods and give you peace of mind, seems a false economy to use an English. Btw a baby Atlas is the same width as an English axle

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User MegatronUK's Avatar

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbry View Post
    Hi Remember reading an article in one of the ford Magazines and it was talking about shortening an axle by 1" a side by cutting 1" of tube from each side then weld back up and as the splines are long enough you can cut 1" from shafts. Shortens axly by 2".
    Anybody done this and how strong is it
    Bought a atlas axle with escort spent quite a bit dong it up and now finding getting wheels to fit a bit hard seems it is a STD Capri axle would be good to shorten axle or find wheels with a + 40 offset or something.
    Yeah. Doesn't always work, so take those recommendations with an extremely large pinch of salt. We tried it with my 52" Atlas and the splines (on my original, unshortened 52" shafts) were no where near long enough - the shoulder where the splines tapered out on the shaft was binding on the side gears in the diff and so wouldn't fit all the way in. In the end we had to buy a pair of shortened shafts from RACE in order to fit the shortened atlas case.

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    Re: Axle modification information

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbry View Post
    Hi Remember reading an article in one of the ford Magazines and it was talking about shortening an axle by 1" a side by cutting 1" of tube from each side then weld back up and as the splines are long enough you can cut 1" from shafts. Shortens axly by 2".
    Anybody done this and how strong is it
    Bought a atlas axle with escort spent quite a bit dong it up and now finding getting wheels to fit a bit hard seems it is a STD Capri axle would be good to shorten axle or find wheels with a + 40 offset or something.
    2" overall axle reduction is possible as described but that will only get to a 50" axle and for example an Escort is 48.5" stock and is tight with the 7" RS alloys. You might squeeze another 1/2" off each side but would be only a 'maybe' recommendation! Correct length, shortened halfshafts maybe the best way or find a complete short tube axle s/hand and sell yours as it does have value!

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    Re: Axle modification information

    The 7" wheels I have are just level with the tarmac arches and was thinking of running 205 tyres so would need to go in about 25 to be safe, anybody running 6" wheels with 205 tyres (or is that a bit wide for them). I was running 195 on 14" gti rims on my 205 rally car (not to sure if they are 5.5 or 6" rims)

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