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Thread: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

  1. #121
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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    What do you really want is the question. There's guys over here that make over 400hp at the crank on these motors N/A with mechanical fuel injection and thats on the crappy 2.0 non vvt heat with a 2.3 block (how the motor came in the ford ranger). But I'm sure the drivability sucks. I have my motor running on a megasquirt but I have to disable the VVT until I figure out a custom cam wheel because the mazda triggers (60-2-2 crank and 4+1+1 cam) dont work well and the duratec triggers (60-1 crank and 4+1+1 cam) and besides the unsprung twin disk clutch it drives like a factory vehicle.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Time for an update. Thanks to all those who offered ideas on the cam sensor. I'm still not sure if I will be using sequential ignition/fueling, but I'd like to keep the option open. Finally, I managed to do this...


    Cutting the mounting lug off.



    I cut the bell shaped bracket from 5mm aluminium.




    I can now mount the original magnetic sensor at 90 degrees. I may still end up getting a sensor that mounts like this anyway – or I may not even use it. It’s one to think about later.


    I decided the oil splash guard inside the cam cover didn’t need to me as big as my first template, so I made a shorter one.


    And here it is made up in 1.2mm sheet steel.







    15mm hole drilled in the side for the oil breather hose attachment and a 3/8BSP thread tapped.



    The adaptor gives me a -10 thread.

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  4. #123
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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    I’ve been contemplating different designs of plenum. I could have fabricated a simple box type job, but worries about getting equal air distribution put me off. I really liked the plenums offered by Anembo Engineering. Their stuff looks amazing, but it comes at a price. I finally decided to get the Jenvey one.


    After a couple of weeks I received this.








    It arrived assembled with the snorkel facing the wrong way. It’s designed to be bolted on either way round. I guess this way round would suit most FWD applications. The design of the snorkel is supposed to spread the air pressure evenly as it enters the main chamber. This would have been the hardest part for me to fabricate. Eventually, I thought why bother re-inventing the wheel, when someone else has already done all the R&D.


    Jenvey offer two inlet diameter options, 60mm and 70mm. This is the 70mm option.


    For an extra £100+VAT Jenvey would have machined the back plate to suit the throttle bodies. Never mind, I thought – I can do that!


    Measuring, double checking, triple checking and then finally measuring again, I got the centre points marked out.


    I need four 55mm holes, positioned in exactly the right place. To make life more difficult they are not exactly equal distances apart. When I win the lottery, I’ll get a 5 axis milling machine, but until then my pillar drill will have to do.


    The closest size hole saw I have is 54mm.


    With a piece of emery cloth wrapped around a hole saw I was able to open the holes up from 54mm to the required 55mm.


    Wow. That’s a relief - it fits.
    Before cutting, I did check with Jenvey that the base plate was available to buy separately – just in case I messed it up.


    The air horns just screw on the AT throttle bodies. There are no additional bolts. This means the base plate is just held in place, sandwiched between the air horn and the throttle bodies. I will probably add some RTV silicon sealant around this area on the final assembly.


    And here it is fitted. The snorkel clears the chassis tube by about a fingers width .

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  6. #124
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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    I’m struggling to find answers to some simple questions. I’m sure that some of you good people in Turbosports world will have some ideas.

    Because this is a turbo installation with individual throttle bodies (rather than one big one), do I take the feed for the MAP sensor upstream or down stream of the throttles? See my sketch below…



    According to some I should take a feed from each throttle body (points A) to a common chamber and then take a feed from that to the MAP sensor. But, according to others, it can be a single point in the main plenum (point B). The volume of the chamber is quite large; 4.5 litres, so I guess that works in favour of point B.

    Anyone got any ideas about this?

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Personally I took my MAP signal after the throttles as I wanted my base map to be N/A compatible then with boost compensations added, But foregoing that set up with a pure turbo install, it makes no difference - you don't need the vacuum signal for anything usually - its a couple of mapping sites that can be used to improve the low end resolution - plenty of cars and bikes use plenum only reference signal.

  8. #126
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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    use A, that way the map sensor will see what the engine sees boost or vacuum. chamber volume does not come into it

  9. #127
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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    map signal needs to come between the engine and throttle bodies.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Thanks guys for your help.

    It seems the consensus is to go with position A. My plan is to drill and tap into each throttle (just after the butterflies) and run pipe from each to a small container. Maybe 100cc - 200cc volume. Then pipe from the container to the MAP sensor, boost control, boost gauge and fuel regulator from here. As far as I can figure, this way I'll get an average of the boost pressure going in to the engine. I assume that at any given time, one of the four cylinders will be on the induction stroke and therefore be creating vacuum, whilst the other 3 are on boost? Also, when off the throttle all will be on vacuum to help operate the fuel pressure regulator.

    Have I got this theory right?

    Also, I'm guessing the right place for the air temp sensor is still in the main manifold, and not in the small pressure container?

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    The right spot for the temp sensor is in the cold side intercooler end tank. This prevents heat soak of the sensor and associated hot restart issues.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
    The right spot for the temp sensor is in the cold side intercooler end tank. This prevents heat soak of the sensor and associated hot restart issues.
    OK, I always thought that the air temp sensor needed to right next to (or as close as possible) to the air horns. The intercooler on mine will be mounted in front of the radiator, so there will be a run of at least 12" before the cold side air even gets to the inlet plenum. Would the sensor be better mounted in the pipework just before the plenum?

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    should it not read the temp that the engine gets ?? so on a turbo car near to the throttle after the intercooler or in the plenum ?? i think cossies are like that. I am no expert but it is what logically seems right.

    I think that is what leafy is saying cold side would be on the outlet of the Inter cooler ??

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by beeRS View Post
    As far as I can figure, this way I'll get an average of the boost pressure going in to the engine. I assume that at any given time, one of the four cylinders will be on the induction stroke and therefore be creating vacuum, whilst the other 3 are on boost?

    Have I got this theory right?

    Also, I'm guessing the right place for the air temp sensor is still in the main manifold, and not in the small pressure container?
    if the engine is on boost all 4 inlet tracts will see boost there wont be vacuum anywhere.

    i would put the air temp sensor in the main manifold plenum, that way it sees the air temp that the engine actually sees

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    The air at the outlet of the intercooler is inside the engine is about 1/200th of a second. If you put the air temp sensor in the intake manifold it's just going to read the temperature of the manifold when air flow conditions are low, like cruise, idle and such. And the manifold itself is going to be about the temperature of the air coming out the back of the radiator. The body of the sensor conducts the heat from whatever its in, rather than reading the air temp when the air flow is low, that's why you mount it somewhere that doesn't heat soak.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    This is a no doubt worth thread to see!! Love it From the bottom to the top!! Top Quality job done on there!! Congratulations!!!

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    I'm enjoying reading about your progress, but I didn't see any heat treatment on your ARB? I made some years ago and had to have that done otherwise they don't have any spring in them.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by Deltona View Post
    I'm enjoying reading about your progress, but I didn't see any heat treatment on your ARB? I made some years ago and had to have that done otherwise they don't have any spring in them.
    The bar was made for me by a company caller Spring Coils in Sheffield. They used EN16T steel bar, so should have the required 'springiness' for the job. What kind of steel did you use that needed heat treatment?

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by beeRS View Post
    The bar was made for me by a company caller Spring Coils in Sheffield. They used EN16T steel bar, so should have the required 'springiness' for the job. What kind of steel did you use that needed heat treatment?
    You would hope they know what they're doing given it's their trade so hopefully you'll be ok, but it doesn't seem right to me. I mean, if you can bend something to form it, it's going to bend when in use. If it's been heated to bend it then it's softened it.
    We made them from 4130 Chromo as per the book, another link here mentions heat treatment:
    http://www.hotrod.com/articles/how-t...stom-sway-bar/

    Certainly i'm no metallurgist, so I just researched it in books etc and followed what I found.
    I've just taken a pic of the page in the book to show you, but this forum just refuses to let me load any pics up, I don't know why.
    Last edited by Deltona; 30-05-2018 at 10:01.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Amazing build
    Top fab work

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
    The air at the outlet of the intercooler is inside the engine is about 1/200th of a second. If you put the air temp sensor in the intake manifold it's just going to read the temperature of the manifold when air flow conditions are low, like cruise, idle and such. And the manifold itself is going to be about the temperature of the air coming out the back of the radiator. The body of the sensor conducts the heat from whatever its in, rather than reading the air temp when the air flow is low, that's why you mount it somewhere that doesn't heat soak.
    You are using the wrong sensor then if you are getting heat soak!

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y71rC74RtG0/maxresdefault.jpg

    http://www.nzefi.com/wp-content/uplo...re-Sensor1.jpg

    The first will heat soak and also be slow to react - not what you want especially in a turbo.
    The second has the thermistor exposed (within the cage) and thermally isolated from the body - fast response and ideal for turbo.
    If air is ingested in 1/200th of a second why not measure its temp at point of ingestion when it 'may' have heated in the plenum. Temp affects air density which affects fueling and power - no point knowing what the air temp was when using it now!
    Last edited by katana; 22-07-2018 at 11:54.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    The caged ones do heat soak when air movement is low, like at idle and when the car is off of they're mounted to something hot like the plenum. Once you get air flowing past them they cool right down, but that doesn't help your hard to got restart issue.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Don't know what systems you are referring to, as mine - a DTA - has settings for cold through to hot starts which mainly use engine temps not air temps and start fuelling enrichment period is counted against engine revolutions ie might be done after 3000 revolutions with cold engine or 3 -500 with a hot engine - guess its all down to mapping!

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Megasquirt, uses iat all the time.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Interesting ideas about the temperature sensor. I was thinking of welding in an alloy boss for it on the plenum just opposite the intake air horns. Right in the middle. The only problem with this is that it would mess up the cast in Jenvey logo.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    You are using the wrong sensor then if you are getting heat soak!

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y71rC74RtG0/maxresdefault.jpg

    http://www.nzefi.com/wp-content/uplo...re-Sensor1.jpg

    The first will heat soak and also be slow to react - not what you want especially in a turbo.
    The second has the thermistor exposed (within the cage) and thermally isolated from the body - fast response and ideal for turbo.
    If air is ingested in 1/200th of a second why not measure its temp at point of ingestion when it 'may' have heated in the plenum. Temp affects air density which affects fueling and power - no point knowing what the air temp was when using it now!

    Thanks for this info. The temp sensor I'll be using is a caged type. One of these...


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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Love this build. Your work is stunning, nice to see some lovely engineering on a car build.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Its been a while since I posted some progress, so here goes...

    After a bit of head scratching I came up with the idea of making an aluminium manifold pressure block. It’s basically a small volume container with a feed from each of the four inlet ports, downstream of the throttle butterflies. This should give an average pressure of the inlet charge. There's also four outlet ports; one for the fuel pressure regulator, one for the boost control, one for the dump valve, and a spare (because, something always comes up). In theory it should work. The larger port is for the MAP sensor.


    A quick sketch. (That should say 5/8 BSP on the left - not 3/8 BSP).



    These are some of the parts I’m using. 1/8 BSP hose tails, stainless steel blanking plugs, a small off cut of aluminium block, Bosch MAP sensor and connector.



    The main bore hole is 15mm. This is drilled almost all the way through the length of the block, but not quite.



    More holes drilled. These go right in till they meet the main 15mm bore hole.



    Port holes are tapped to 1/8 BSP, and the main bore hole tapped 5/8 BSP.



    Thanks to Richard at RPM for the recommendation of this Bosch MAP sensor. Less than £30 off eBay!



    The manifold pressure block is to be mounted to the bulkhead. This is my mounting bracket cut from 1.5mm aluminium sheet.



    Folded bracket with some M6 rivnuts in place. I will probably add some holes for lightness later (not that it’ll lose much weight from it – but it would just look cool). A 25mm dimple die would be nice, but they are not cheap! If I can find some other excuses to use one around the car, I might invest in one.



    I’ve drilled two 6mm holes through the block for mounting to the bracket. I've also counter sunk with a flat bottomed drill bit so that the socket head bolts can sit flush with the surface.



    These are the 1/8 BSP hosetails for mounting into each throttle body port. A little PTFE tape.



    The AT throttle bodies are made with 1/8 BSP blind holes under each port. Their use is optional. These just needed to be drilled through with a 2mm drill to be functional.



    Cleaning up the block on a disc sander and chamfering the edges.





    The finished manifold pressure block. Not sure if I'll leave this brushed effect, or polish.



    To link the throttle body ports to the pressure block I’m using 6mm silicone hose.





    Mounted on bracket and to bulkhead.



    Everything is just mocked in place here. I will add some hose clips later. I wouldn't have had to do any of this if I went down the route of using one big throttle body upstream of the inlet manifold, but I'm quite pleased with the way its turned out .

    I'll post some more progress soon.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Love this build, stunning engineering

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Before I can tackle the exhaust manifold and turbo installation, I need to have the steering column in place. I can’t position the steering column without sorting the pedals, and I can’t get the pedal position bang on without knowing the seating position. I think getting the driving position perfect is a big part of enjoying a car – steering wheels, pedals and gear lever need to be just right.

    So here I go on another digression…





    Here the pedals are in the perfect place left to right, but too far back. I should have thought of this when designing the bulkhead.















    I’ve plug welded the base permanently to the floor, rather than bolting. Here it is seam sealed and ready for paint.









    A new steering column fabricated from steel tube (easier than cutting the brackets off the old Capri one). Here, it is fitted with the Capri stalks.






    This is too tight - it wont work when the UJ is in position. I'm going to have to move the column over a touch.



    I couldn’t resist! A pair of Contour seats . I have no idea how I will mount them – there is no room for the runners as the entire floor is 2.5” higher up.

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  35. #149
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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Are these the Cobra ones? i was looking at the slimline Cobra Cub ones for my Mk1

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Are these the Cobra ones? i was looking at the slimline Cobra Cub ones for my Mk1
    These are from eBay www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332663106122

    The seller was really helpful and sold me a few extra meters of matching vinyl so that I could do my door cars to match.

    I was very tempted by the Cobra Cub seats and the Cobra RS. They are very similar. I was close to buying the Cobra RS, when I found these Contour ones. They are very nicely made, but the tubular steel bases on my particular pair were quite scratched on arrival. Not to worry as I will probably be cutting/modifying the bases anyway.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Love this build, stunning engineering
    Thank Erikmex

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Click image for larger version Name:	P6050096.jpg Views:	330 Size:	93.8 KB ID:	83068

    Surely just as easy to lengthen the shaft rather than moving the wheel that may feel odd - just like my escort does with it's std. crooked column!
    Last edited by katana; 08-09-2018 at 16:00.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Nice seats, just spotted the ones they do with the adjustable headrests, tempting for my Mk1 Twincam rep im building.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    Surely just as easy to lengthen the shaft rather than moving the wheel that may feel odd - just like my escort does with it's std. crooked column!
    I know what you mean about the crooked column on the Escort. It never bothered me on my RS2000 till I noticed it, and now I can't not see it anymore

    Thanks for the idea about lengthening the column. Its not clear from the picture, but the outer tube will clash with the chassis if lengthened. I might do a bit of both - lengthen and move over. It will only need to go over 10mm or so if I do it that way.

  41. #155
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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    This is a street car?!

    Also I've seen some arguments that the hoses leading to that vacuum block should all be the same length or you can get odd signaling to the map. I'm not sure it actually matters or if its just the internet theory police.

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    Mechanic beeRS's Avatar

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
    This is a street car?!

    Also I've seen some arguments that the hoses leading to that vacuum block should all be the same length or you can get odd signaling to the map. I'm not sure it actually matters or if its just the internet theory police.
    Well - a bit of a street car, a bit of a track car.

    Yes - I was unsure about the length of the hoses. Theory says the pressure wave should travel at the speed of sound so the length of the hoses should not make much difference. I really don't know how true that is so I have taken the cautious route and cut them all to the same length - it can't hurt. Cheers for the advice.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by beeRS View Post
    Well - a bit of a street car, a bit of a track car.
    You're gonna track in that seat!?!

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Lovely build this!!! Thanks for sharing :-)

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    Quote Originally Posted by yoeddynz View Post
    Lovely build this!!! Thanks for sharing :-)
    Thanks . I will post some updates soon.

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    Re: My mad Duratec 2.5 instalation - Cortina Mk1

    It’s about time for some updates. I’m trying to concentrate on the turbo install, but I’ve been side tracked with the seats and steering column. Without these done, I can’t progress to the exhaust.


    Here’s the seats mocked in place. I need to get the seating position established so that I can get the steering wheel in exactly the right place.


    These are a set of old Escort runners I was hoping to use. They aren’t going to fit as I don’t have the height. The floor is a good 2.5” further up in the body than the original Cortina’s floor pan.


    I’m going to side mount the seats which means welding these tubes to the seat frame.


    Here are the tubes welded in place and the frames painted black.


    There’s about a million different side mount brackets available off the shelf, but buying a set of them would just be too easy. I’ve fabricate my own in 6mm aluminium.


    Brackets in place – now I have a centre line for the steering wheel.


    These pieces of steel sheet are for forming a bulge in the bulkhead to support the lower part of the steering column.


    And here it is with weld lined ground down and radiused.


    Spot welded to the bulkhead. This is about 10mm further away from the car centre line than before and it clears the chassis.


    It looks really tight, but it does clear the chassis tube.


    Here is the T36 from Turbo technics that I’ll be using. It’s got an internal wastegate and V-band exhaust outlet. What I really wanted was a Borg Warner 6758EFR. I was quoted a price, and when I phoned to order two weeks later the price had gone up by around £300! The Turbo Technics one was a lot more reasonable and should be up to the job. I had the choice of a 0.63AR or 0.55AR, and in the end I went for the 0.55. I know I could probably get more power out of the 0.63, but I want the quicker spool.


    Turbo technics supplied this without the wastgate actuator bracket welded so that I can rotate the compressor side to where I need it.


    So my next dilemma is how do I orientate the turbo? From everything I’ve read the oil inlet needs to be at the 12 O’clock position, but for clearance it’s better for me if it’s closer to the 1 O’clock position. So, will 20(ish) degrees cause a problem? And the knock on effect is the water inlet/outlet. I think I’ve seen that it should go in at the lower port and out at the top? Can anyone verify this?

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