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Thread: Helpful XE conversion thread

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    Helpful XE conversion thread

    Hi all,

    i wondered if we could do an updated version of the sticky thread above, with helpful advice or tips for anyone like me gathering parts for a conversion. For instance, i have recently read a thread on the heater pipe relocation problem/modification and what parts you can use to fix it.

    I have a few questions:

    do any of you use the 1.8 manta belt driven distributor with carbs? I have one I bought about 8 years ago as I was told I nee it, but I have never seen one being used on a conversion.

    is there a model or size of prop that will work best?

    is there a particular make of large tunnel that fits the best?

    Are there any standard parts that have to be modified to fit?

    can you get pre made radiator pipes that will fit easily?

    i have been looking for info on here for ages, I have most of the parts on the sticky thread but I know I will needs loads more. I want to try and collect all the parts so I can do it in the smallest amount of time as my last conversion took years for my old 16v mini.

    i know a lot of these May sound like silly questions but fords are a new venture for me, I know a lot about minis and a lot of you will know of some other parts from different vehicles that will fit escort parts.

    thanks
    kris

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    il reply to this tomorrow with everything ive done right from pulling it out of an astra to running it in my escort, hopefully you'll get something from it!

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    I have used the search function a lot on here but invariably it is only part of the story.

    As it stands I have:

    XE
    5 speed Type 9 and 7 degree bell housing
    Clutch/bearing and fork
    7 degree chassis mount kit
    1.8 manta sump, oil pick up pipe, dipstick and belt driven distributor
    1 piece burton prop
    Twin 40's with small trumpets (no inlet manifold yet)
    Brooklands Capri lsd back axle.

    Things I know I need to get:
    5 speed Gear stick (unless a 4 speed is usable?)
    Large tunnel
    Rad pipes
    Not sure what type of inlet manifold to get due to not much room in there
    Exhaust manifold.

    Also I have another question - can you use a heater with a large tunnel?

    Any pics would be really appreciated to help with this, I have looked at build threads but it would be good to have a general thread for people to search for/read.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by onecamohv View Post
    il reply to this tomorrow with everything ive done right from pulling it out of an astra to running it in my escort, hopefully you'll get something from it!
    that would be helpful for me also as I still may be going this route. already have engine in caterham style car so I think only the coilpack conversion is the last bit I need to do.

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User onecamohv's Avatar

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    I’ve recently fitted a C20XE from scratch (complete in fwd format in an astra) into my escort mk2, and came across many snags, challenges and so made my own fixes along the way.
    I’d be happy to help If you have any specific questions that your stuck on. My general setup is as follows

    Early c20XE with Coscast head and MAHLE forged pistons
    I stripped the engine and completely rebuilt it, relatively OEM but blueprinted with a few modifications –
    ARP’s, cometic head gasket, king competition bearings, balanced rods, steel geared oil pump etc

    Head mods needed:
    Dizzy mount cut off the rear of the head
    Camshaft cut and oil gallery tapped, and plugged with a threadlocked bolt
    Camshaft hole blocked with suitable machined bung
    Small oil feed to lubricate dizzy tapped and plugged with a grub screw
    Rear coolant outlet modified to fit close to bulkhead by putting a 90degree plumbing fitting and 1/2" copper pipe secured with an olive fitting.
    Oil breather mod per SBD

    Bottom end:
    Manta cast sump (I modified mine slightly as I was running the engine upright)
    Modified pickup pipe to suit (see SBD for measurements)

    Other stuff:
    Upright Bellhousing to type 9
    Ford-XE spigot bearing
    You can use a pinto clutch, but it’s a little small on the diameter, I'm using an AP paddle clutch made for a ford spline XE flywheel setup
    RS2000 fork and bearing
    Type-9 with long first gear kit
    Bike carbs – a word of warning, be careful using carb manifolds, a lot don’t have the water outlet that’s on the standard inlet going down to the waterpump.
    This pipe is very important and critical to the correct flow of coolant around the engine, I wouldn’t use a manifold that encourages this to be blocked off.
    Megajolt ignition system

    Chassis mount engine mount kit

    regarding the tunnel/heater scenario:
    some say the standard heater box would fit with a large tunnel, ive no ideal what tunnel they got, but there wasnt a hope in hell my heater box was going anywhere near that space left.
    so what i did was cut the heater fan and its mounting lugs off the original heater box and binned it. i then made a smaller heater box out of 1.2mm alloy, used a new mk3 escort heater rad, and piped it to the original window vents via aluminium heater ducting.
    works perfectly. its plumbed from the back of the head via a bleed valve into the top of the rad, and the bottom rad hose down to the large hose coming out of the back of the water pump.

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread












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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    The spigot bearing is just a std Sierra one for a type 9, you can also buy WCXM if you dont fancy going down the chassis mount route, conversion silicone hoses are also available,

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3807693663...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    I used a belt drive manta dizzy set uo many moons ago, the alloy bracket is a big ugly thing that flexed alot, it causes the drive belts to wear out, i was forever changing them, best option is mappable ignition with 45's which use the original crank sensor, 45's with 38mm chokes work well. Throttle bodies for best results though, id always mount at 7deg for inner wing clearance, if you want a heater the best option is to fit a nice neat kit car type one complete with 12v blower motor, means youre not restricted to the position of the orginal escort one. Kit Car solutions sell them, Ive used the Ashley manifold before, works ok but not best for power.

    Also, an engine core plug fits the redundant dizzy drive, cant remember the exact size, 1.5inch maybe??

    Worthwhile carrying out the engine breather mod too, when you turn XE's around they have a habit of throwing oil up from the sump into the rocker cover. Oil relief valve mod is always something id do too.

    Weakest area on an XE is the top end, the hydraulic tappets can lock up if over revved causing the valves to float and kiss the pistons, make sure you set a conservative rev limit, if going to anything above fast road cams then id always go solid lifter, ARP rod bolts a must too.

    XE's are very strong revvy engines, i rate them above Duratecs....leagues ahead of Zetecs, i recently built a long stroke 2.3 running a Frontera crank, 48 throttle bodies, 272hp with masses of torque.
    Last edited by Erikmex; 20-01-2017 at 17:53.

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    A good conversion on the clutch side is original good quality Vauxhall cover and 2.3 Sierra diesel plate. I had to take a m/m off the circumference for it to work properly. If you run hydraulic lifters get good quality ones as mentioned before they can jack up if high revs used. Stand alone ecu is the way to go if any tuning considered. Do the mod on the oil gallery across the head wether it needs it or not. Don't waste money on a 'coscast' head, yes they are a better casting but that's it. Use cometic head gasket withe early longer h/ studs should have no problems. Will also agree better than any duratec or the zetec that's only any good for melting down to make washing machine parts...poor quality at that! ARP big end and flywheel bolts, 41/2 kg steel flywheel all balanced will give a good strong reliable engine if put together right.

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    whats the aftermarket lifters like ? i think i have one or two that are not 100% im getting brief lifter tapping the odd time after start up

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by onecamohv View Post
    whats the aftermarket lifters like ? i think i have one or two that are not 100% im getting brief lifter tapping the odd time after start up
    Tried three different sets and they were crap! Managed to get hold of some gen ones, no problem then later upped cams and went solid. Take time to shim up but peace, no rattles

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by onecamohv View Post
    whats the aftermarket lifters like ? i think i have one or two that are not 100% im getting brief lifter tapping the odd time after start up
    Tried three different sets and they were crap! Managed to get hold of some gen ones, no problem then later upped cams and went solid. Take time to shim up but peace, no rattles

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Depends which ones you use, theres nothing fancy about them just buckets and shims, any noise is due to not setting the clearances correctly, i have a box of various sized shims for doing clearances, sometimes i just machine them myself if i have time. Are you talking about hyd tappets? i usually use solid.
    Last edited by Erikmex; 21-01-2017 at 08:47.

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    You dont shim hydraulic tappets.

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    My reference was made to aftermarket hydraulic tappers been crap. Not everyone has facilities to grind their own shims so hydraulic ones are easier. But once you start going into race profiles and high revs solid lifters are a must. The problem with that is for people who don't have their own grinding machines it to get all their clearences as near as they can then it's a trip to a machine shop to have them ground.

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Yeah but you just measure and buy the shims in the correct thickness, most cams state whether hydraulic or solid lifters are needed, i have a max lift measurement somewhere for hyd lifters, if using old hydraulic lifters you should also squeeze the old oil out before fitting or they can jack up.

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Colr6 View Post
    A good conversion on the clutch side is original good quality Vauxhall cover and 2.3 Sierra diesel plate. I had to take a m/m off the circumference for it to work properly. If you run hydraulic lifters get good quality ones as mentioned before they can jack up if high revs used. Stand alone ecu is the way to go if any tuning considered. Do the mod on the oil gallery across the head wether it needs it or not. Don't waste money on a 'coscast' head, yes they are a better casting but that's it. Use cometic head gasket withe early longer h/ studs should have no problems. Will also agree better than any duratec or the zetec that's only any good for melting down to make washing machine parts...poor quality at that! ARP big end and flywheel bolts, 41/2 kg steel flywheel all balanced will give a good strong reliable engine if put together right.
    What mod are you talking about for the oil gallery? I will be running a standard engine as I don't have much money, standard internals with just twin 40's and an uprated manifold, so nothing special. I would love to have a decent engine spec but it is just not possible.

    Onecamohv would you mind answering some questions about your engine:

    You said in your spec - Head mods needed:
    Dizzy mount cut off the rear of the head - do you have any pics of that?

    Camshaft cut and oil gallery tapped, and plugged with a threadlocked bolt
    Camshaft hole blocked with suitable machined bung - why does this need doing?

    Small oil feed to lubricate dizzy tapped and plugged with a grub screw - is this for a belt driven dizzy? can you advise how to do this please

    Rear coolant outlet modified to fit close to bulkhead by putting a 90degree plumbing fitting and 1/2" copper pipe secured with an olive fitting.
    Oil breather mod per SBD .

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Photos are above of the dizzy drive having been cut off, you need to cut the exhaust cam as it drives the dzzy, the end of the cam protrudes out the end of the head to drive the dizzy, so it needs cut after the last bearing journal, the hole in the ned of the cam needs plugged.

    The cam hole in the end of the head needs plugged as the cam is no longer there and youd have a big hole for the oil to pour out, a belt driven dizzy is driven by a small cog fitted to the exhaust cam pulley on the front of the engine not the rear...like this
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ma...U-OgKiH-pxM%3A

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Photos are above of the dizzy drive having been cut off, you need to cut the exhaust cam as it drives the dzzy, the end of the cam protrudes out the end of the head to drive the dizzy, so it needs cut after the last bearing journal, the hole in the ned of the cam needs plugged.

    The cam hole in the end of the head needs plugged as the cam is no longer there and youd have a big hole for the oil to pour out, a belt driven dizzy is driven by a small cog fitted to the exhaust cam pulley on the front of the engine not the rear...like this
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ma...U-OgKiH-pxM%3A

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    I see, makes sense now! I have that dizzy setup, I bought it years ago but I have never seen one fitted or in use, this picture makes it all clear now.

    thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Heres a photo of the original dizzy drive and casting removed and plug, note the small screw also plugging the small oil gallery

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ma..._Hq-OkfL0ZM%3A

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Click image for larger version Name:	image.jpeg Views:	343 Size:	98.2 KB ID:	80141Or you can use this, if your not confident in cutting the rear of the head

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Thats the std non dizzy late XE, you still need to cut off the whole dizzy drive casting for bulkhead clearance in an Escort even with those engines.

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Thanks for all the help so far guys, really appreciate it!!

    What props do you guys use? I have a 1 piece burton one that I bought when I got the car, will that work? I thought the XE had to go in on an angle (I don't mean 7 degree).

    As for welding the mounts in place, I take it you bolt the box on the engine, then lower it in and mate it to the standard length prop so the length is all correct, then lift/lower to suit the gearbox in the tunnel? Do you have any tips for getting it all to fit?

    This will be ages away yet as I still need quite a few parts, I can afford to get just about 1 part a month lol.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Yeash just use a normal escort prop, yes a dummy run with engine and gearbox mocked up, a few measurements and tack on the mounts, you can get and XE level no probs.

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Onecamohv

    You said in your post:

    Bike carbs – a word of warning, be careful using carb manifolds, a lot don’t have the water outlet that’s on the standard inlet going down to the waterpump.
    This pipe is very important and critical to the correct flow of coolant around the engine, I wouldn’t use a manifold that encourages this to be blocked off.

    I won't be using bike carbs but Webers instead, can you or anyone recommend a make of inlet manifold for twin Webers? Or a way of re routing the pipe maybe?

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    hi Kris,

    there wont be any way of re-routing that pipe unless its made as part of the manifold, it is a coolant port in the head that flows directly into the manifold and then out the pipe. alot of webber manifolds just have a completely blank face to block the cooling re circulation gallery altogether.
    Of loads of people im sure are going to say theyve used them without harm etc and thats fine, but in my experience of studying the system, its a critical part of keeping uniform temperature in the head, and i think there is a piece somewhere on SBD website that says the same.

    edit: found it, read the first paragraph
    http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Info_sheets/C...h%20heater.pdf

    the answers to your previous questions are all in the pics above, except this one sorry, this is the heater fitting on the back of the head. this goes to the top heater fitting
    and the other one is the grub screw for the dizzy oil feed


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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    you need a manifold like this with the coolant fitting on it, some dont have this at all


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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Some more questions about the bloddy waterpipes...
    I found the Picture from the SBD Homepage were you can see the waterpipe routing from the side!
    1. Do i need this separate water tank (header Tank)
    2. I bought a water pipe set (from Thermostate housing to the Radiator and one piece from the Radiator to the waterpump. BUT...did you use the original Black plastic pipe with the seperate outlets?? or did you weld some special parts/pipes T-parts?
    I bought the Jenvey inlet manifold with the special water outlet pipe (TP5)http://http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Inlet_..._Manifolds.htm
    I rearly looking for hours to find just ONE picture of an assembled engine wich shows this situation UNDER the Carbs/Throttle bodies...whatever...
    Please...can anybody take a picture from the finished water pipe assembly uner this Galery?

    !

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    I have also been told by someone else locally about using a Capri 2.0 gearbox mount for a 5 speed type 9 because it's bigger, so it will fit the bigger tunnel better? Have you heard of that before?

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by skmotorsport View Post
    Some more questions about the bloddy waterpipes...
    I found the Picture from the SBD Homepage were you can see the waterpipe routing from the side!
    1. Do i need this separate water tank (header Tank)
    2. I bought a water pipe set (from Thermostate housing to the Radiator and one piece from the Radiator to the waterpump. BUT...did you use the original Black plastic pipe with the seperate outlets?? or did you weld some special parts/pipes T-parts?
    I bought the Jenvey inlet manifold with the special water outlet pipe (TP5)http://http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Inlet_..._Manifolds.htm
    I rearly looking for hours to find just ONE picture of an assembled engine wich shows this situation UNDER the Carbs/Throttle bodies...whatever...
    Please...can anybody take a picture from the finished water pipe assembly uner this Galery?

    !
    i had all these exact questions also !
    in answer to the question, no i didnt use the black plastic pipe, thats useless - im also not using a header tank.
    i made an aluminium adapter for this function - its an aluminium pipe with two hose fittings i made on the lathe and welded to the pipe coming off it, one going to the manifold and one to the heater.
    do you want me to take some pics? il take some this evening you'll see exactly whats going on.
    i can make you a similar fitting if you wish

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Yes i use one for my type 9 in an auto tunnel

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    onecamohv, you are my hero!!
    I have several metal water pipes from different cars...maybe one of these will fit...if not...we will have a deal!
    I am really thankful for your help!!

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    No problem, i didnt get to the car yesterday, i will tonight !

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    Helpful XE conversion thread

    Sorry the photos are terrible, it's tight and it's dark but you get the idea!




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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Is this a fitting which I would need for my conversion? If I get an inlet manifold with coolant fitting. If so could you make me one? I have no facilities/tools to be able to do that I can pay you obviously.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    your gong to need something alright, are you using a heater?

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    I was hoping to run a heater but it seems with large tunnel it will be difficult, unless it is a modified/home made type. Could you put a heater connection on it and then if I don't run one I can blank it off?

    Thanks
    Kris

  38. #38
    Spanner Monkey

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Many thanks for the pictures!!!

  39. #39
    Spanner Monkey

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by onecamohv View Post
    ....
    .
    I can make you a similar fitting if you wish
    yes i will...

  40. #40
    Pit Crew Decade Plus User onecamohv's Avatar

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    Re: Helpful XE conversion thread

    pm me to discuss

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