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Thread: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

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    Spanner Monkey

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    Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    Evening all,

    Hoping someone can once again assist me with my pinto.

    It has done practically zero miles since rebuild, just couple trips up and down the drive.

    It has had the carbs setup with a base setting and did start and idle well. While pulling away it does bog down so you need to dip the clutch to clear it then it goes with some higher revs (stills need tweaked I guess)

    Until today........It would not start, even had to connect up another car for some extra juice as I drained the battery.

    While trying to fault find, I took the plugs out and they were all wet and black. A quick wipe with a rag cleaned them up like new. Then I dried them with some heat. Stuck them in and it started first turn of the key. Left it running to charge the battery up a bit and stopped it to go do other things. During its running it was idling fine and i drove it out the garage (still with the bogging down issue)

    Anyway, I came back about 2 hours later to put it in the garage and again it wouldn't start. So, plugs out and repeat the above and again (as they were wet and black) It then started first turn of the key but it didn't move well at all. While trying to reverse it was dying away, coughing and spluttering. Never as bad as this before.

    We done a compression check and all 4 cylinders were the same. Just under 125 psi on the gauge (no idea if the gauge is accurate or not but read the same for them all regardless)

    Any ideas what is going on? Where the black oily coating is coming from?

    Its a diluted coating of oil as its not 'thick', I assume petrol is mixing with it.

    Any thoughts or suggestions greatly appreciated.

    David

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    125psi compression is pretty low, very low for a rebuilt engine, has its got new rings? were the bores honed?
    what cam? what CR, is it timed properly?
    black wet plugs could be a result of an issue with the engine or carburation and timing problems

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    It's an old gauge so not sure on its accuracy. I was holding out hope that with them all the same I'd be alright.

    Yes new rings. No the bores weren't honed. They weren't scored or marked.

    Newman phase 4 cam

    It's timed at 8 degree idle and 35 degree max

    I don't know the compression ratio. Don't see it being far from standard but can't be sure what's actually been taken off the head.

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    I'd say running it on idle and moving back and forth a few yards ain't doing a fresh engine any favours! The rings aren't going to bed in, potentially overly rich idle mixture, contaminated cold plugs will foul easily and the more it happens the shorter their life will be.
    ps. new rings on old bores is not usually a good combination.
    Last edited by katana; 22-01-2017 at 22:13.

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    new rings old bores without a hone is definatly a bad idea the rings will NEVER bed in properly.

    phase 4 cam will want higher than std compression, the more cam you have the more compression you need or the dynamic compression ratio will be very low

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    new rings old bores without a hone is definatly a bad idea the rings will NEVER bed in properly.

    phase 4 cam will want higher than std compression, the more cam you have the more compression you need or the dynamic compression ratio will be very low

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    What sort of figures should I see for compression?

    At the moment I am just going to need to hope that the rings do bed in. Didn't appreciate it would be best getting the bores honed.

    The crank and rods are all standard. the pistons are one size up in diameter but standard otherwise. So it has been bored at some point in its life.

    So I'd say the block will be standard for compression level. Would that be right?

    Where my knowledge drops is the head. It has got bigger valves. Not massively and I can't find the bit of paper with the sizes on it currently. How would I check the head to get the last bit to work out the compressing ratio? And what would be desirable?

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    It's a felpro head gasket.

    Looks like I don't need to know about the head. It's all to do with the block.

    Would this mean to increase compression the block would need machining?

    Sorry for all the questions. Thoughthe I had this cracked but it appears not

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    to raise the compression skim either the head or block, preferably you do the block to get the pistons flush or there abouts and take any more required off the head, you really want around 10.5 your cast pistons wont like more although more would be good.
    to work out your actual compression you need to cc the head volume

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    This all sounds beyond me to be honest.

    I've bought a new compression tester and will try that over the weekend if it arrives on time.

    After that I am going to need to find some local who knows what they are talking about. Hoping I don't need to take it all back out and strit it down when all it needs is the harnesses fitted to go for a mot!

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    Would it be possible that the cam is too far advanced giving lower compression? Just curious
    Keep her lit

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    it would have to be a long way advanced. but it doesnt sound like the engine has much of a compression ratio in the first place add in a performance cam which lowers compression results anyway plus rings which wont be bedded in.

    by comparison when we did a compression test on a race pinto i built we got 220psi

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    Tried the new compression tester and got slightly better results. Between 135 and 140 psi across all 4 cylinders.

    Have ordered a Kent cam timing disk so hopefully get up to it again on Saturday and work out where the cam timing is.

    Does anyone know what the standard camshaft timing is?

    The Newman phase 4 is 'full lift IN. ATDC 110' degrees
    Last edited by telf; 30-01-2017 at 15:43.

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    Do you have double valve springs? I have the same cam and Newman double springs and long pad followers and I have found that the inner springs contact the rim of the valve stem oil seals and dislodged/ruined a few. When replacing them I trimmed the rubber lip off with a blade so there is no interference. I don't know if there was much oil getting through but could be something to be aware of.
    If it ain't Ford, don't fix it!

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    Quote Originally Posted by telf View Post
    Does anyone know what the standard camshaft timing is?

    The Newman phase 4 is 'full lift IN. ATDC 110' degrees
    Std 2 litre cam is 24/64 70/18 (inlet, exhaust).
    So full lift on inlet at 110 degrees ATDC.

    By the way, advancing a cam gives more compression as the inletvalve closes earlier.

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    Re: Another Pinto question - oily plugs this time

    Yes I do have double valve springs - I checked today and one of the seals had the rubber damaged (on the exhaust side). The others seemed alright. Will double check them all again and make a decision on what to do with them.

    Checked the camshaft timing and I had got it a tooth and a half out (retarded). I must of moved something when changing to the vernier pulley.

    Anyway its now moved to where it should be. Just need to build it all up again next weekend and check the compression and take it from there.

    Fingers crossed this was my issue and all is good but I ain't that lucky a person.

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