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Thread: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

  1. #1
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    pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    ive been talking to a customer who has been having issues with a pinto, it was rebuilt a number of years ago, recently refreshed again with new rings, but has issues with oil pressure plummeting once warned up, a 3rd party replaced the oil pump, which didnt make much difference, as ive said ive never seem a pinto oil pump worn enough to hurt oil pressure, so the chances of two oil pumps being worn enough give hot pressure problems is unlikely, my feelings all along were that old school thick 20/50 oil was simply masking some other problem.



    Clearing the mains are shagged, so its defiantly been running with low oil pressure, why i know not - yet!




    found these in the sump, thrust washers!




    the two that were still in place were shagged, thats because some muppet fitted them the wrong way round.



    i didnt need proof they were the wrong way round, but if any was needed, the dirty oil stains on
    the bearing cap from oil drainng down the groves in the trust gives it away, those grooves should of been against the crank
    Last edited by Graham; 29-05-2017 at 23:03.

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Blimey, certainly looks pretty bad. Are you sure the shells are the correct size for the crank grind Graham?

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Blimey, certainly looks pretty bad. Are you sure the shells are the correct size for the crank grind Graham?
    And whats the 2nd picture of?

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    the second picture is of the thrust washers, obviously being the wrong way round they wore the crank away to the point where it was worn enough that they fell out, and got squashed by a crank web/bigend





    loks like who ever reringed it didnt know your supposed to move a hone up and down! honing marks should look like the picture below


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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    If the honing was that quality, and the thrust washers were the wrong way around, I'd be surprised if the clearances were even checked, let alone correct.

    Shaun

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    oh dear

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Oh Dear! was a bit of an understatement, when you give some one your engine and they tell you they can sort it you cant stand over them and watch them carry out the work you just trust that they know what they are doing . lesson learned. Hopefully Graham will be able to save it and sort it out Fingers Crossed

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    Racer Decade Plus User rallyrob's Avatar

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Funny, I thought the 2nd pic was the trust washers but didn't want to sound an arse saying it if I was wrong.

    Blimey it made a proper mess of the crank too.

    The honing leaves a lot to be desired aswell doesn't it.
    Last edited by rallyrob; 01-06-2017 at 09:46.

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Honest, I've seen this damage before. Same reason, thrust wrong installed.

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    you need another crank ... and hooning ... check line bore for std of oversize ... put the block in the washing machine ... new bearings ... OMG !

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    ive got another crank, the block has been acid dipped, rebored refaced and had the main bearings line bored, i just havnt updated the thread

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    wile Graham is working his magic on the engine I thought i would give the engine bay a little tidy up
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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    so my quick tidy up of the engine bay soon took a turn for the worst when i started to remove the underseal and filler added over the years the slam panel bump stops were first then i found the strut top on the passenger side had a few problems so out same the grinder and i was soon on the phone to Charlie at CWC restorations ordering a few panels and wile i had the grinder and cutter out i decided to do some thing with the front panel as it never quite lined up with the passenger wing around the bottom of the headlight bowl and wing so off that went along with the front cross member and then there was repairs to the bottom of the radiator support panels and the inner wings at the point they join the front panel by the chassis rail and wile i was on i thought i would change the strut top tower cup on the drivers side and then the dodge repairs to the front inner wing / chassis rails
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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    most of the paint now stripped off and the rusty bits taken care of and all the holes filled in now to start with a little paint
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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    well been busy blue Rs on hold wile I sort out the yellow Rs Graham says the engine is nearly ready so time to paint now the repairs are done
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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Well it’s been a wile since my last post I have to say a big thank you to Graham for the great engine he has built for my Rs it really does hall ass finally finished a lot of the little jobs and got it Mot’ed agine in February and have done 300 ish miles went 5 speed box with a long first gear from Mark at MKF very pleased with the whole package it used to do 70mph at 7000rpm with the box changed 90mph is 3500 rpm and with Graham’s engine mods it pulls like a train not been above 4000rpm yet and looking forwards to giving it a few more beans the get up and go really puts a smile on your face .

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Quote Originally Posted by jbr39 View Post
    Well it’s been a wile since my last post I have to say a big thank you to Graham for the great engine he has built for my Rs it really does hall ass finally finished a lot of the little jobs and got it Mot’ed agine in February and have done 300 ish miles went 5 speed box with a long first gear from Mark at MKF very pleased with the whole package it used to do 70mph at 7000rpm with the box changed 90mph is 3500 rpm and with Graham’s engine mods it pulls like a train not been above 4000rpm yet and looking forwards to giving it a few more beans the get up and go really puts a smile on your face .
    You can't beat a bit of Graham magic
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Click image for larger version Name:	PNG image.png Views:	333 Size:	108.9 KB ID:	82717

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Quote Originally Posted by jbr39 View Post
    Well it’s been a wile since my last post I have to say a big thank you to Graham for the great engine he has built for my Rs it really does hall ass finally finished a lot of the little jobs and got it Mot’ed agine in February and have done 300 ish miles went 5 speed box with a long first gear from Mark at MKF very pleased with the whole package it used to do 70mph at 7000rpm with the box changed 90mph is 3500 rpm and with Graham’s engine mods it pulls like a train not been above 4000rpm yet and looking forwards to giving it a few more beans the get up and go really puts a smile on your face .
    Thanks John, i kinda think is ironic that half of the world thinks to go fast you need an HT1 cam, you have the opposite an FR30, it gives power in real world usable rpm. obviously the ported inlet manifold, big valve head and lightened flywheel help, the key is a well matched package

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    These results make me smile ... can't wait for more Graham magic

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisis View Post
    These results make me smile ... can't wait for more Graham magic
    problem is it takes time to do the magic and what i cant magic is more hours in the day. any news on your twin cam timing covers chris?

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues


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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues




    [img]http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2013/11/2018050122403806336PNG image 5.png[/img

    The finished product of all the hard work

  25. #24
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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    bit of an update, the car has been down to aldon for a RR session it topped out at 137bhp



    just to recap, its got a caravan cam, 32/36, the bottom end was basically scrap as was the head, badly ported with sunken valve seats, i rescued the head and tidied it up with some bigger valves. i know john was hoping for 140bhp, but we are close and i recon you could put it on plenty of RR and you would see 140bhp, hell with a few more miles on it it might even show 140bhp, it certainly would if you either stuck sidedrafts on it, or upped the cam a bit, but changing the cam wil spoil a very smooth power delivery

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    All I can do is thank Graham for a great engine build the power delivery is very smooth right through the Rev range the get up and go is well puts a great big smile on your face it’s on a 5 speed box with a long first gear and on the rolling road 108 mph at 6000rpm in 4th gear so as you can see Graham has given me a great engine that is fast and very usable power without big carbs and hairy cams and saved my engine

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Very good graphs for torque/power.
    100 bhp at the wheels is what you would expect from a FR30 and DGAV.
    37 bhp loss in the drivetrain is a bit high, does the car have big tyres?

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    thats disappointing graham,if you'd have made it a 2.1 it'd have 100 hoss more surely

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    The difference between wheel HP and flywheel seems too great, a loss of 37 bhp in the transmission with an Escort is n't right somewhere.

    We would often have the wheel versus flywheel power discussion about Rolling Roads 35 years ago with our Road Rally cars. Some competitors would have between 125-130 bhp at the wheels and they all thought they had 185+ at the flywheel. I don't have the exact calculation for transmission and tyre loss, some say between 15 and 20% and others will say 20 to 25 bhp total loss.

    It's not all about facts and figures but more how about how an engine drives and performs which is n't necessarily shown on a RR graph. Good luck with your new engine.

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  31. #29
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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    i remember years ago coming across another escort loosing 37bhp, yes a lot, dont remember why though, could be nothing more sinister than just tyres a bit low on air with a bit of brake bind

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    The engine gearbox and diff are fresh built with only 1000 miles on them no brake bind did not check tyre pressure been stood in the garage for about 6 weeks no used before going to Aldon for a tune open to suggestions on where to find the missing 10 bhp if it’s 20% loss in the transmission
    Last edited by jbr39; 30-09-2018 at 19:19.

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    what make/size tyres you running? low pressures will add a lot of run down loss, the thing is it does not effect the flywheel power as the loss is in both directions.

    and if you happy with how it goes then it doenst matter whether it was 3 or 37 loss

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    185/60/13 usually 26psi

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Nice torque curve .... its torque that pulls you along not power

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Quote Originally Posted by jbr39 View Post



    [img]http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2013/11/2018050122403806336PNG image 5.png[/img

    The finished product of all the hard work
    Hi do you still own this car, someone I now used to own this car back in the 80's?

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    Re: pinto low oil pressure bad build issues

    Click image for larger version Name:	Screenshot_20210813-164529_Gallery.jpg Views:	61 Size:	57.2 KB ID:	87339

    Yes still own it sent you a pm with details

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