my megasquirt experiment

[alladdin]

grs2000.
pin 6 is spark o/p B (36 is A) as far as i can see ?
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/Drawings/4...ack_Wiring.JPG
and
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/Drawings/W...om_VR_Hall.JPG
ive not looked at the internal mods tho i see pin 6 is wired from spr 4

cam sensors are normaly used for sequential.(ms2?)

stablau.....
the map i had running in vid was an alpha n map. kindly supplied by a guy on the success storys part of ms forum. seemed v.good !
pm me your email for a copy
it would work for you too grs, just need to alter the config settings to your spark setup ? should you want to try alpha n.

[grs2000]

I was planning to go Alpha N. Is your map from fatbald bloke? I had a look at his site. He's done well.

[alladdin]

yep thats him, ian prior is his name i beleive. pm me your e mail if you need the map.

[Stu.C]

It's all a bit beyond me, but it's fascinating stuff none the less

How long were you grinning for first time it fired up?

[alladdin]

i'll let you know stu (when i stop)

[wildo105e]

Top stuff they don't half make the mundano sound sweet. Get a clutch in and drive it Nice to hear the wife moaning sounded just like my garagetry bleeding brakes with her next

[bluers2000mk1]

Hi alladdin......

Just wondering if the map you have will run my throttle bodies as I'am using st170 injectors??



I haven't even got an ECU yet but just trying to sort out the best route to take to get them to work.............

[alladdin]

yes mate im sure it would run it, you would need to trim the req'd fuel setting but thats normal. it should be remembered that any map not derived specificaly for a given engine should be regarded as purely a "base" or starting map. thats what it is to me.

[bluers2000mk1]

If poss could I have a copy of the map? Then when I get the ecu as you said I already have a base map.....

Also if you want you can have my old bike injectors as a spare set....(free)...

[alladdin]

If poss could I have a copy of the map? Then when I get the ecu as you said I already have a base map.....

Also if you want you can have my old bike injectors as a spare set....(free)...

im liking you
pm me your email matey
i have several maps using the MAP rather than alphaN, a few were tried above and ran it fine on the std t/b but i didnt try many on my t/b's.
is there a way of posting them up in the referance section for members ?

[Shanksy]

hey, that sounded the bollocks
i think you need to fire a clutch in that thing .. ..

[alladdin]

hey, that sounded the bollocks
i think you need to fire a clutch in that thing .. ..

i ripped the motor out today will be in scrappies this week.

[traven16v]

Is there any chance you could email me a copy of the map your using please?

I tried starting mine today and I'm not really getting anything apart from a 3sec prime of the injection pump. First off couldnt get the laptop to communicate with the Megasquirt but managed to sort that.

The main problem I have at the moment is that im getting no spark. Where did you take your feed from for the coil pack? manual said something about wiring into the same circuit as the fuel pump?

Im very confused the MS1 manual is very in depth but what it could do with is a quick start guide or a check list?

[alladdin]

map posted a 3 sec prime sounds a bit ott
might be flooding. more likely a silly wiring issue as both myself and wildo105e found out
its recomended to supply the coilpack live from the fuel pump (ie the same live you run to fp, controlled by ms) as its then only live when ecu wants the motor to run.

post all your setup details in a thread if you still get issues and im sure between us we can sort it need to know firmware version and whether edis etc
did you "calibrate" the throttle pot ?

[wildo105e]

Must agree human error seems the biggest problem. Some gotchas i went through.
Check the ecu is getting live on cranking. You will see this if you look at the realtime display under tuning. I still have a temp lead right from the battery to power the MS at the mo Remember if you do this that you will have to unplug the supply to stop the car running.

Here you can also check your cranking rpm i think the 200 rpm is about the norm. If this low it may indicate trigger wheel sensor issues.

Check you are getting a spark if yes check with a timing light that is about 10 deg BTDC on cylinder 1. If not you may have the coil pack back to front hence 180 deg out (a classic)

Check all your sensors are reading realistically in particular the engine temp as this will affect the cold starting i.e ECU may think the engine is warm when it is cold.

I found once all the these were checked it fired straight away but it took a while to trace them all out.
My coil also runs from the same live as the fuel pump.

Keep us posted we like a runner

[traven16v]

I think I just got abit too keen and thought it would just start without any glitches lol.

I found a check list to do before starting the engine off the extraEFI website where I bought my MS1 extra from in December.

I've read up abit and I think one of the problems is a trigger problem as im not showing any RPM in Megatune when cranking. I've set the TPS dont think its reading 100% throttle (but I know thats because I need to wind in the pedal stop). I'm pretty sure the wiring to the VR sensor is fine, is there any other common problems or reasons why it doesnt see its cranking?

I know im getting 12volts at the injectors but 0.18 or something at the coil pack feed. Does that ballast resistor need to be wired up for it to run?

I also think I need to reset the measurements for the coolant temp sensor.

I will check the wiring again tomorrow evening and post the findings.

Cheers.

[wildo105e]

I think everyone gets keen with this stuff then gets knocked back a bit. The wiring on the VR sensor could be back to front (i have only heard about that though) apparrently you can pass some netal over it really quickly and it should show in MS (effectively acting like the trigger wheel). The likelest reason for it not working is that it is too far away from the trigger wheel. It has to be really accurate and within 1mm all round i think.

The coil pack does definately need 12v as the live from the fuel pump is just that.
Keep at it.

[alladdin]

did you test the unit on a stim ?
i will assume no, and that its working anyway if it was bought complete ?
as stated try reversing polarity on the vr sensor if its a two wire, this is common apparently.
again as stated the coil pack needs a 12v supply, also bare in mind that its actualy 2 coilpacks in one, coil one feeds 1+4 while coil 2 fires cyls 2+3 .
one advantage of using edis as we did is that you can disconect the ms and eliminate it from the equasion since edis will run 10deg in limp mode and should start the car.
check your wiring in the first instance, theres issues it seems
now that the excitement has drained you can get back to the install proper

[traven16v]

Didnt have much time this evening to have a look.

I removed the VR sensor from the Mk2 and tried it on my mk6 escort ((VR sensor is same part no.) and it started no problem. Fitted it back in the Mk2 and connected up a Multimeter on AC volts and cranked it over, got 0.6 -0.7 volts (battery is a little low on charge) compared that with the mk6 escort and got 0.9 volts. So it safe to say that its not the VR sensor and that the MS1 would pick that up?

Read something about adjusting the pots in the MS to stabalise the RPM in Megatune ( although Im not even seeing cranking RPM in Megatune?

I have an EDIS module and harness plug. But my MS is the Wasted spark option from ExtraEFI website fully built by them and not the EDIS version. How do I wire in the EDIS module and bypass the MS1 temporary to make sure it all runs?

[alladdin]

there might be a drawing earlier in this thread
basicaly you wire the vr and coilpack to edis with a live and earth. i guess the ms needs its tach signal from edis"pip" (pin 24?) for the injection side but the other lead "saw" is left off (36?)
heres a drawing


back to your present setup, re check the pin/cable conections. are you using these diagrams
ign side



fuel side

[wildo105e]

From my experience if it has come from Extraefi same as mine it is likely not to be faulty. I queried phil a few times with problems and he was more than happy to look at it. Evertytime i have had a problem it has turned out to be me

[traven16v]

Had another look tonight, no bloody luck. Checked all the pins in the loom they all appear to be ok as per the check list from the extra efi website. But I'm still not getting any spark and in Megatune I still dont get any RPM.

Think I need to measure the Coolant Temp Sensor resistances again at the 3 temps, as it keeps showing the coolant temp at -28 degrees C. (which is pin 21 and measures 42.7k ohm on the 200k scale)

I have just run a new fused feed to the coil pack and I now have 12v when ignition on. BUT STILL NO SPARK!

Also have notice on the fuel pressure regulator gauge that i get 3bar when the fuel pump primes for a couple of seconds, however once the pump stops it drops down to 1bar quite quickly then slightly slower down to 0.5bar.

Should it not be holding 3bar for a while once the fuel pump primes?

wondering if the coil pack is buggered?

but that dont explain why im getting no cranking in Megatune?

cheers guys.

[wildo105e]

If you are getting no cranking rpm then nothing else will spring into life. The fuel pump supply / coil will on be activated on seeing the engine crank.
What sort of crank wheel do you have 36-1 now the really daft question you do have a missing tooth (apologies if that is an insult) and also in the right place. If you have the missing tooth in the wrong place it will spark wrongly. Still doesn't explain the no cranking RPM.

I think if the wiring for the vr is good then is the sensor within the distance all round the timing wheel. I spent yonks trying to get mine accurate.

Also on the realtime display when you crank do the gauges go red ? as effectively the MS shuts off that is how i diagnosed i had no 12v on cranking.

I think the fuel pressure sounds plausible because as soon as you get cranking the pump will repressurise.

Keep at it

[alladdin]

as above, check you have 12v to ms while cranking.
i would take a deep breath at this pint, maybe have a day off it. its a simple issue, just a matter of pinpointing it.

first issue-- forget the rest--- is no cranking rpm. check the vr to pin 24 wiring.

[traven16v]

Right tried swapping the wires round on the VR sensor wiring tried cranking it and i'm noticing slight cranking on Megatune. However when I stop cranking then start again Megatune beeps and it resets. Is it restting because I havent got the capacitor near the coil pack connected up?

Also read something about tweaking the pots inside the megaquirt?

The trigger wheel in the standard flywheel one off the zetec (from retroford) standard VR sensor too.

[alladdin]

i have read that if fitting a 1800 f/w (which i guess the r.f is) then you have to fit the matching vr fitting. i cant confirm this tho so it might be worth ringing r.f as im sure dave would know. ( wheres nielm, id guess he knows as well ........)

dont worry about the cap.

[traven16v]

I bloody hope you dont have to machine down the VR sensor fitting as it bolts on from the flywheel side

what about the resetting issue i mentioned, that once I stopped cranking then started cranking again it woult beep and reset 1 would come up in the bottom right hand corner of megatune. Reset 2, 3, 4, etc however many times I stopped cranking then restarted?

But I did notice cranking RPM but a little intermittant. Sometime showing 2-300 then maybe 1200 (i think) only tried it a couple of times as I got dragged off it and had to cut the bloody grass!!!!!!!lol

Hopefully will be able to get back on it Monday

Will keep you posted

Cheers.

[alladdin]

how was the battery ? ive seen resets on the stim with low battery

as could be seen in my pics the vr wires had no shielding but i did route away from the coil pack and ht side

[DarthVader]

Could b battery voltage dropping to low when u crank, get a fresh battery fitted and try again.

[traven16v]

The battery is abit low, so I will charge it up. Hopefully that will be the cause? FINGERS CROSSED

Thanks again.

[traven16v]

Just tried it tonight and SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!
After swapping the wires round on the VR sensor on Saturday but then not being allowed to work on it. I Reset the measurements for the coolant temp, hooked up the battery to my other car with jump leads. Tried cranking and got a consistant cranking RPM, but it wasnt firing.... Then realised I hadnt connected the coil pack back up....twat!. Connected that up and after a couple of attempts it fired up with a load of smoke lol. Also sounded like a Yank V8............Probably not have an exhaust connected might have something to do with that!

Thanks to alladin and wildo105e for your help.

Now got to sort the exhaust then onto the mapping. Be prepared for more questions.

Cheers.

[traven16v]

Does anyone know of any rolling roads in the Middlesex area that are Megasquirt and Megatune friendly?

[alladdin]

not sure if you know this but you can import or export just the fuel or ign map to/from the config file if you dont want to alter a whole config to try (vex files)

oh , and well done its a good feeling isnt it

[wildo105e]

Good stuff. Don't kill yourself about the coil I did it a good few times. You have nearly caught me up now. i better get back in the garage

[lotus7]

Hi Aladdin thanks for the map, i have to say ive joined the happy face club Had problems with trimming the vr pots in the Megasquirt to get both coil packs firing, then voltage drops,It kept kicking back against the stater so to help that out i knocked 5 degees off the cranking timing. When it fired it was very rich with lots of black smoke, trimmed the required fuel down from 14 down to 8 then back to 10 and it sits ther ticking over at 1100 and thats very good with 285 cams, big valves and steel flywheel. Whats very impressive is you can tune the tick over by ear and the AFR just by clicking on a few keys
Wonderful just got loads of resets going on so have work to do on earths and fitting that cap in the coil feeds.
Many thanks again for the map and i hope to start getting into the tuning next week if it ever stops rainning
Cheers Clive re stablau

[traven16v]

Cant seem to get it firing on 2 and 3 cylinders. Tried another coil pack and I get nothing. How do you test the ford coil pack to make sure they work?

It also really struggles to start, sometime sounds like it locking the flywheel up and the starter struggles to turn it over almost sounds like the timing is out? but it shows 10 degrees btdc?

bit stumped at the moment?

[alladdin]

what map is it ? can you send me a look see? swap the wires on coil and the ht leads in pairs, this will make the coil 1 fire leads 23 and coil 2 fire 1, 4 proves the 2 sides

[traven16v]

I'll try that tomorrow. Send you the map. It will really struggle to start (sometimes take 5 or 6 attempts) once it does start it didnt seem to run too bad but I had to keep my foot on the throttle to keep it going.

[lotus7]

Traven Im just learning so no expert by any means,but i had only 1 coil pack firing and only 1 led lighting up on the megasquirt, i found out the the 2 pots on the board wanted triming its now explained in the Extra manual but i dont know how to link it.
I had to knock 5 degrees off the cranking advance, not right but saves the starter and you can always dial it back in when its starting better.
Cheers Clive

[alladdin]

I'll try that tomorrow. Send you the map. It will really struggle to start (sometimes take 5 or 6 attempts) once it does start it didnt seem to run too bad but I had to keep my foot on the throttle to keep it going.

this could simply be the cranking / warmup enrichment ?? i had that when using the std t/b tho when i went to the gsxr ones the maps all became better ( they were tuned around similar setus)

go to basics on the coil pack wiring from the ms and the firing order first. (plugs fire in pairs 1,4 + 2,3)