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Thread: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

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    Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    I've been having a search for high amperage alternators (~100A) that would fit a XFlow in a Mk1 Escort.

    Without wanting to spend an arm and a leg on a new unit (WOSP 100A for XFlow, ~£275) does anyone have any suggestions for something that might fit that can be found on eBay/in a scrapyard, preferably also the newer design with the fan internal to the casing (birdsnest).
    .
    I realise the more modern and powerful units usually have the the newer style pulley which would have to be swapped for a V belt.

    Alternators I've come across so far that look the right sort of shape.
    Mk1 Escort 1.3 XFlow Turbo - http://bytesandbolts.com/tag/mk1-escort/

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Whatever you buy make sure it isn't an ECU-controlled alternator.

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    That's a very good point to check!
    Mk1 Escort 1.3 XFlow Turbo - http://bytesandbolts.com/tag/mk1-escort/

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    just about all modern OE alternators are ecu controlled!

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    I'm sure there must be a high amp output alternator used on something that isn't ECU controlled.
    Mk1 Escort 1.3 XFlow Turbo - http://bytesandbolts.com/tag/mk1-escort/

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    even smart charge alternators (smart charging is the correct term for ecu controlled) will still charge without the ecu control, they just need a throttle blip to make them self excite and then they will charge at a default voltage of around 13.5, you cant run a charge light either but that may not be an issue if you have a volt meter

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Why - before everything in / out / or about a car become electrical, about the biggest alternator fitted was about 50-60A for running dual spot lamps, lights and screen heater at same time..........older type diesels may have bigger alternators but don't bank on it!

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    I don't need to explain why, that doesn't add to the original question.

    I've had a few responses from sellers on eBay for new alternators. There are a few higher output A127 replacements aimed for canal boats; anyone used them?
    Mk1 Escort 1.3 XFlow Turbo - http://bytesandbolts.com/tag/mk1-escort/

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Quote Originally Posted by bytesandbolts View Post
    I don't need to explain why, that doesn't add to the original question.
    you are quite correct you dont, but sometimes a bit more info either helps with getting the answers your looking or potentially alternative suggestions, or failing that just a bit of friendly conversation!

    its part of what a forum is about, but then i guess seeing as you and katana both joined in 2012 and you have made 27 posts and he 1607 you dont get that!

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    not sure what amps o/p but earlier zetec escorts / mondeos etc had a modern unit with single cable output and normal charge light connection. escort ones are more compact and no doubt come on other cars. also they mount as older fords ie 2 prong bracket.
    Last edited by alladdin; 15-08-2017 at 20:22.

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    its part of what a forum is about, but then i guess seeing as you and katana both joined in 2012 and you have made 27 posts and he 1607 you dont get that!
    His age is 27 Graham! No. of posts is 102.

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Quote Originally Posted by Miniliteman View Post
    His age is 27 Graham! No. of posts is 102.
    opps, still the point is there!

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Apologies, its not my intention to offend anyone here. Its just too easy for a topic to jump straight down into a rabbit hole.

    In the interest of friendly conversation; I'm after an alternator of reasonable output is to power a daily driver Mk1 Escort.
    Which would include use cases like driving long distances (~200 miles) at night, in the cold winter, when its raining.
    In addition to handling all the normal stuff (uprated headlights, taillights, heater motor, rear heated windscreen, wipers) the car also has EFI.

    Worst case continuous and prolonged loads:
    (items in bold I have verified the consumption using a multimeter, else using fuses as guide/guesstimates until I have verified)
    • Tail lights 1.2A (0.6A per light)
    • Rear heated windscreen ~1.5A
    • Wipers on high speed 4A
    • Heater motor on high speed 5A
    • Headlights on full beam 10A (5A per light)
    • Sidelights <1A Max (~0.5A per light)
    • Spotlights 18A (4.5A per light)
    • 12" Radiator fan 6A
    • EWP80 water pump 3A
    • MS3X ECU 3A
    • Wideband controller 3A
    • Injector(s) 2.5A/10A*
    • 044 Fuel pump ~15A
    • EDIS 4 coil pack ~6A
    • Radio and speakers ~4A
    • Digital cluster + RPi ~3A
    • Water injection pump and valve ???**
    * Currently single point injection, future plans to move to multipoint (x4).
    ** Purchased but not bench tested yet, future TBD.

    The above adds up to around 85A give or take, plus some additional spare capacity for future (x 1.25) calculates around 105A.
    I'm sure most of the time the vehicle wouldn't be consuming as much, but I wish to use the worst case as a reference point.
    Last edited by bytesandbolts; 15-08-2017 at 23:35.
    Mk1 Escort 1.3 XFlow Turbo - http://bytesandbolts.com/tag/mk1-escort/

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    this may help you for reference, my race car ran an ecu, 044 pump, a second pump to fill the swirl pot, ecu, injectors coil pack electric water pump that lot drew 20A when running

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Thanks for the info, can I ask how you verified that output.
    Mk1 Escort 1.3 XFlow Turbo - http://bytesandbolts.com/tag/mk1-escort/

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    measured with a digital ammeter i didnt run a charging system and a fairly small battery so it was important to know
    Last edited by Graham; 16-08-2017 at 08:54.

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    its worth noting even with a lot of modern cars and high output alternators, they dont quite cope with every single item switched on, but then again they dont need to, cars are almost never in the situation where every single consumer is powered up at the same time, if they were it will only be momentary

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    A bigger amp/hr battery would be more benefit - its the reservoir in times of need, the alt. just keeps it topped up!
    If you were proceeding at max attack mode, on a cold night and in monsoon rain in a Mk1 Escort i'd have other things on my mind than keeping the amps up! I'd take your worst case scenario (btw you forgot brake lights 4A and horn 10A) and half it - and you'll be comfortable IMO.

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    If you were proceeding at max attack mode, on a cold night and in monsoon rain in a Mk1 Escort i'd have other things on my mind than keeping the amps up!
    Ha, this made me chuckle!

    I didn't forget the horn and brakes, I just didn't include them above to keep the list focused on continuous loads. As they would be intermittent loads, it should be fine.

    It looks like to me the best all round solution would be using a KA alternator. It's a bolt on replacement from the looks, of modern design, relatively high output and can be picked up cheaply.
    I'm tempted to pick up one, see how I get on and upgrade later if I run into issues. I've made an uprated duplicate of the original engine loom, so using lugs/ring terminals to connect to the alternator isn't an issue (instead of the plug).
    Mk1 Escort 1.3 XFlow Turbo - http://bytesandbolts.com/tag/mk1-escort/

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    After taking on the advice in this thread, I decided to move forward and pick up a new genuine Ford KA 70A alternator (type with V pulley) off eBay for £50.
    I'll see how I get on with that first. If I run into issues I can always upgrade at a later date.

    As a side note, I read the docs for my ECU again (Megasquirt 3) and there have been some recent updates to the firmware to support ECU controlled alternators.
    Support was added to the ECU firmware in Dec 2016, and in the docs for Ford they use the ECU (3 wire ECU connector) off a Ford Focus as an example how to setup.
    So I may look into this in the future as an extra considering my ECU already has built in functionality to support.
    Mk1 Escort 1.3 XFlow Turbo - http://bytesandbolts.com/tag/mk1-escort/

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Just jumping in here, i use a 3ton Kubota digger alternator ebay under £100 all day long. Very lightweight & small in size ( Brise & all the other 300 quid things,,,,, it shits on 'em)

    On an old ford running high comp 1700 xflow with leccy fuel pump,fan etc (no heater) Wosp starter with small gel filled battery.
    Ican leave the car for 3/4 weeks at a time and she starts first turn every time.
    Last edited by piekey; 17-08-2017 at 20:56.

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Fit amp meter and run the car with everything running at max and see what your pulling in amps.
    The battery acts as a store and can deliver large amounts of power (amps) when you need a boost and is charged when your not.
    Sierra's and Granadas run high power alternators and you can still buy them but I really think you are simplifying the problem by just focusing on the total maximum amp demand of each system.
    I used to do a 300 mile round trip in one go twice over a weekend every 2 weeks to pick up my daughter from her mums and never ever had a flat battery.

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper1 View Post
    I used to do a 300 mile round trip in one go twice over a weekend every 2 weeks to pick up my daughter from her mums and never ever had a flat battery.
    Well thanks for the social life commentary but how does this affect the OP's choice of alternators - we need to know ! LOL!

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Quite simply, the amount of mileage I did in a variety of vehicles with lower powered alternators in the dark and wet with everything running full chat as described by the thread starter and I never had an alternator problem or a flat battery.
    My example describes the extreme conditions the poster is concerned about and I'm trying to give him confidence that a lesser powered alternator would cope with ease doing 600 miles in 2 days in the extreme of weather that the UK can throw at us.
    Happy to talk off line about my social life if your interested.

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Two questions:
    - how many amps can a 70 Amp alternator give at 2000 rpm?
    - how thick must the electrical cables be so they can withstand/carry 70 Amps without too much loss?

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    Re: Xflow - High Amperage Alternator

    Quote Originally Posted by piekey View Post
    Just jumping in here, i use a 3ton Kubota digger alternator ebay under £100 all day long. Very lightweight & small in size ( Brise & all the other 300 quid things,,,,, it shits on 'em)

    On an old ford running high comp 1700 xflow with leccy fuel pump,fan etc (no heater) Wosp starter with small gel filled battery.
    Ican leave the car for 3/4 weeks at a time and she starts first turn every time.
    ditto, i run very similar on my turbo escort. on my old rally car an old 75amp lucas coped with 4 cibies and 2 headlights all with 100w bulbs in. fail to see why you'd need more than a 70 amp jobby

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