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Thread: Loose surface rallying future?

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Question Loose surface rallying future?

    Hi all,

    this was brought up on a rallying page on Facebook, someone posted up asking what the state of rallying is like in other countries? It instantly got lots of replies with some great discussion.

    unfortunitely the chat got removed as it wasn't what the Facebook page was about. How ever, I was wondering what you think about the future of rallying? I am on the committee for the organising motor club for the Somerset stages rally. Unfortunitely due to a big financial loss on the event last year, it isn't going to go ahead next year, which will be the first time in 35 years the event isn't taking place.

    We have had some some big discussions on this time and time again, the numbers of the clubman entries or the lower end of the rally scale have depleated massively in the last few years. The main organisers have done a huge survey with previous entrants and they put it down to the change in rules which means that the big boys or the fastest lost expensive 4wd unlimited fund monsters go first. This means that the clubmans level cars have to go through all the big ruts and over big boulders that the ballistic missiles leave behind. This also tallies up with what lots of other people/entrants have said on other events, it is such a shame but loose surface rallying seems to be being hit hard by it.

    The Somerset stages Rally was awarded the Bill Turner Trophy for best BTRDA event in 2015, for the second time in three years, and last year awarded Best ASWMC Loose Surface Stage Rally of 2016. How ever this makes no difference, the costs of putting the event on rises every year due msa safety requirements and forestry price rises, so the entry cost also rises.

    What is your View on this subject? I love the fast machines don't get me wrong, but I don't see what's wrong with how it used to be with them running at the rear?

    thanks
    kris

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    Racer Decade Plus User alancdavis's Avatar

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    Re: Loose surface rallying future?

    The MSA dont help by makinging the regulations tougher and insisting equipment is replaced by date rather than use.
    All this crap they impose is putting the sport out of reach of the average clubman
    Big Wing sold and gone to be a film star

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    Mechanic

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    Re: Loose surface rallying future?

    I looked at starting rallying with a friend, but the cost was through the roof, as is with most motorsport

    Licence, safety gear, Hans, helmet, everything in the car in date

    I'm not sayin saying that any of the above is a bad idea just exspensive, then the cost of the event and then what ever you break on the car.

    It's not just rallying, I joined he local motorclub, that's dying out, I went for autotests now they run 2 or 3 a year,

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    Mechanic

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    Re: Loose surface rallying future?

    Yeah the scene is getting smaller for sure and insurance is causing a lot of problem in rallying both in the U.K. And Ireland
    Keep her lit

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    Re: Loose surface rallying future?

    I think its like this across the board in most racing series...

    when i started racing lightning rods.in 1999-2000.(which is about as cheap as you can get) there were 50-60 cars entered now 17 years later less than 20...
    I think peoples attitude has changed.as well...cheers mark

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    Racer Decade Plus User Forest_rallying's Avatar

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    Re: Loose surface rallying future?

    Back in 1979/ 80 you could get an entry on a Road Rally for approx 8 to ten pounds and another £10 for insurance. 4 tyres for approx £70 which could last up to 4 events and driving the car to work. Fill it up with 4 Star and away you went for a good nights entertainment and enjoyment if everything went well, which often it did n't.

    Forward ten years on after the demise of Targa timing some competitors turned to Stage Rallying including myself. You could get an entry on a single venue event at a reasonable cost and use knobblies,bald tyres, slicks or anything else that was cheap as long as it did say for Racing purposes only and not for Highway use on. No tax or insurance apart from RDS was required as long as the car had a current MOT. Again cheap Rallying for the Clubman.

    After the single venue events there became multi ones which were more expensive to enter but good value for money. These events often consisted of stages at old air fields, farm tracks, private roads and the odd Race circuit all linked up on the Public Roads so the car had to comply with Road Traffic Laws. Anyone that remembers the Tour of Lincs will have witnessed one of these events at it's very best with as many as 120 cars doing the Rally. These events often offered great value for money but are sadly no more.

    Then there was the Forest events with there already higher entry fees for a lot less stage miles. In the early 90's we started to see the odd 4x4 car like the Sierra Sapphire and Escort Cosworth and 6R4 starting to enter events.The 2wd car was suddenly struggling to compete with such machinery by now. What kept the Forest entries full was the one make championships like the Peugeot challenge that was full of young talent like the late Richard Burns and many more. Watching 40 or fifty of these cars on an event was not every ones cup of Tea but it filled entries. The 90's was the last decade for manufacturer support, they were no longer promoting 2wd cars that you could buy in the showroom.
    By the 2000's the entries consisted of Mitsubishi, Subaru, the odd WRC and the mighty Peugeot Cosworth of Andy Burton in on a BTRDA event. Competitors no longer serviced their own vehicles, they left it to preparation experts like Quicksport, DOME or R.E.D. They were fitting Brand new tyres at every service at a cost of over £120 a corner. Expensive Race or Funny fuel as it was known pumped into the fuel tanks like it was going out of fashion.

    Group N was suppose to be showroom spec cars but they were nothing of the sort with all their expensive trick bits. I think that has now died of death. That just leaves the WRC cars that can't be run without help from the factory anymore. Gone are the days of building a Rally car with parts out of a breakers yard.

    If you look at the average age of a crew on a Rally, it will tell it all, no youth, just middle age and retired business Men out for a days play. Very sorry times for the Sport, we have had the Plums and left the stones.

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    Racer Decade Plus User Forest_rallying's Avatar

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    Re: Loose surface rallying future?

    Further to my above reply, the BTRDA tried reverse seeding on Forest events in the 90's to improve the road position and condition of the stages for smaller low powered cars. It lasted only a short time before it was abandoned.

    I don't think one thing can be to blame for the demise of Forest events. The cost of competing for the average working person are now out of hand. Entry fees approaching £500, Insurance, chase car, Pace notes, DVD and Hotel accommodation all before touching the car. Then there's petrol as I have mentioned where lots use Race fuel at high expense. 4 x new 15 inch Gravel tyres at approx £600 + vat. You are suddenly looking towards the thick end of £2000 before the car has turned a wheel.

    The Forestry Commission no longer want dirty noisy Rally cars cutting up their tracks. They would sooner have walkers and mountain bikers that pay nothing towards the up keep of the land. Sherwood Forest is a typical place where the Dukeries Premier and Robin Hood Rallies once ran, I am afraid no more and possibly never to be seen again.
    Last edited by Forest_rallying; 26-08-2017 at 09:29.

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    Spanner Monkey

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    Re: Loose surface rallying future?

    I was only speaking to Will Onions the other month and I asked why he wasn't competing anymore, one reason was his cars were going to be surplus to requirements as new rule changes deemed them illegal, thus making them an expensive ornament.
    I'm not clued up enough on rules and regulations and the in's and out's of rallying nowadays but it always seems to happen, the forces that be interfere and bugger it all up.

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    Racer Decade Plus User alancdavis's Avatar

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    Re: Loose surface rallying future?

    very true
    Big Wing sold and gone to be a film star

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