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Thread: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User MK1_Oz's Avatar

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    Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    My engine is currently being rebuilt by the same engine builder who did the last rebuild on it. Part of that was to dismantle and clean the head then rebuild with new followers and correct geometry. That they did but.......when I looked at it today I immediately saw that all of the inlet port filler was missing!!!!! They did not even know it was not there.

    It appears that they are admitting the error (understatement!!) and have said they will get some filler back in there. My issue is that they are not necessarily experienced with this type of engine and therefore probably do not specifically know the shapes to aim for. They did a port mould for me before rebuilding but unfortunately this was taken AFTER the filler was lost and so is therefore no good as a reference. Their suggestion was to take my port matched inlet manifold and fill based on that. My belief would be that this might not end up with the best shape and best flow. They will know how much filler is at the port entry and they can probably see roughly where it adhered to the port sides due to the keying marks the original builder made but they will have nothing to assist with blending into the short side turn or the shape once inside the port. Thoughts? Should I just let them do it and hope (could the slight variances actually make much difference on HP? - assume it will).

    I did ask them to do a flow test during the rebuild just so I had some reference numbers. If they did that (and I got the impression they hadn't grrrr) then that becomes a good reference of their re-filler work. If they didn't do the flow test then the ONLY references I have is some photos looking into the ports and teh output from a previous chassis dyno run. I could possibly take the car back to the same dyno and ensure it hasn't lost HP. Sounds very vague to me? Thoughts?

    So cheesed off right now!!!!!

    I am not sure that there are any experts in South Australia (Adelaide) who intimately know the Pinto head who could be sub-contracted to re-fill it.
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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User MK1_Oz's Avatar

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed




    These are 2 of the photos I have as reference. The angle makes it appear that the filler starts low, then rises as it moves into the port then finally heads down towards the valve. I do not recall that the filler actually had this rise inside the port (although I really do not totally remember) but I suspect this is a result of the camera angle/perspective.
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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    From what I recall of your previous posts I think you need a new engine builder anyway?


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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    All 4 ports have lost the filler?..where did it go...if they removed it....not knowing what it was...then find another engine builder ...i dont think i would trust them...cheers mark

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Hi, I would chase the original engine builder (if you know who he is) and ask him (or her) about how much / where the filler was placed.

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    This is the reason a lot of engine builders won't use epoxy filler, you never know if it's going to do damage to your engine when it it makes a bid for freedom whilst it's being run.

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    thats certainly why ive never used filler

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    It looks to me like it might be easier and safer to to start on a new head, those ports are horrid and I wouldn't trust filler on a high performance engine with cast iron. As a rule of thumb the port needs to be as straight as possible and also the same diameter all the way till the valve chamber, the port should not exceed 80 percent of the valve size till the chamber. I use a washer the right size to measure ad i go when im porting to keep the port parallel.

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    I certainly have lost alot of faith in this builder due to the piston pin clip failure and now this. They are regarded as one of Adelaide's better engine builders!!

    I can only assume the filler was blasted out during the cleaning process then when it got handed over to the builder he never knew it was there in the first place.

    I have tried to follow up with the original builder but it appears he has retired. However, I very much doubt a head porter is going to give out his secrets over the phone (he is in a different State to me).

    I have pulled off a few flow charts on other people's Pinto heads as a further reference but as with dynos, every flow bench gives a slightly different result.

    Heading back down to the builder shortly to finalise a way forwards......
    1970 Mk1 Escort Tarmac Rally Car

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    hi mk1 oz
    i have a head with port filler i got 196 cfm at .500 lift at 28 " and an other head with out filler and its only 10 cfm less from .300 lift to .500 lift im going to use the second head it should make same power and alot safer cheers mario.

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    That would seem to be quite a healthy head Mario! Nice work.
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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Hi mk1 oz have you got any flow figures of your head and how much rear wheel hp cheers Mario.

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest_rallying View Post
    This is the reason a lot of engine builders won't use epoxy filler, you never know if it's going to do damage to your engine when it it makes a bid for freedom whilst it's being run.
    Have to disagree - if you prep the surface right and clean it properly, Devcon won't go anywhere! Especially in cast iron which will move less than ally. We've cut out whole inlets, added tubes to re-angle them and filled the voids with chem. metal - its a sound process!

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    The only way to remove Devcon.........use my engine builder!!! lol
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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    :d

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Bummer Mate, sorry to hear of your troubles. Can you not just courier the head to someone who knows the pinto inside out?

    Cheers

    Matt

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by mariors2000 View Post
    hi mk1 oz
    i have a head with port filler i got 196 cfm at .500 lift at 28 " and an other head with out filler and its only 10 cfm less from .300 lift to .500 lift im going to use the second head it should make same power and alot safer cheers mario.
    Mark, how in Oz is doing your headwork?

    Shaun

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    The engine builder is going to rectify the head. I will compare the final flow figures to that that of known heads to gauge the likely HP output of the complete engine. I have the dyno figures straight after the engine was last built by them. I will try to insist that it gets re-dynoed and that the new output is to be no less than I had before. Probably the best I can do for now......
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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Hi mk 1 how much hp did it make before.

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User MK1_Oz's Avatar

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    125RWkw (enter comments as to why I possibly couldn't have this level of HP <here>). Why?
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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Should be no problem with them agreeing to that , I'm sure they can get a printout to suit 🙄
    Sorry, I'm a cynical git


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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by MK1_Oz View Post
    125RWkw (enter comments as to why I possibly couldn't have this level of HP <here>). Why?
    out of interest what is the rwhp @5000rpm?

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User MK1_Oz's Avatar

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    out of interest what is the rwhp @5000rpm?
    96kw
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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by MK1_Oz View Post
    96kw
    cool, single or twin roller rolling road or was it a dyno hub?

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User MK1_Oz's Avatar

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    As far as I can remember it was a 2 roller on rear axle. Chart shows Dyno Dynamics. Where are you going with this?
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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by MK1_Oz View Post
    As far as I can remember it was a 2 roller on rear axle. Chart shows Dyno Dynamics. Where are you going with this?
    i was just trying to get a handle on the figures, as we know dynos do vary, and most stuff we get involved with over here in the uk measures run down so we see a flywheel figure, if you measure power at wheels you get a significantly different figure between single twin wheel rollers even though the flywheel figure comes out he same. i was also remembering in the old days, where dave would say if he saw 110bhp+ at the wheels @5000 rpm ( on twin rollers) he know its was going to be a good strong engine.

    the upshot is to me the numbers look a bit big, but clearly its a strong motor you have

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    Re: Lost Port Filler - Advice Needed

    Used to be strong. I hope the engine builder hasn't changed that for the worse

    No idea if the operator did any run down measurements - nothing is noted on the chart, but if i get it dyno'd again I will ask if he can do it.

    At the end of the day I have a heap of fun with this car and it competes well in the handicap class (cannot compete with v8's in outright however!). As with all drivers, I will never have enough power but whatever the figure is that it made before I am well happy. Never been one for enganging in size comparison competitions.....
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