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Thread: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

  1. #121
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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    on a carb i would expect power to be 125-135ish genuine flywheel

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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    What would that be at the wheels?
    I had a pinto with 38dgas made 105HP at the tyres at 4000 and the power curve was flat through to 6000 was real fun and easy to drive.....hmmm the good old days.

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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    One question about the valve seat rings:
    If i want to fit larger valves (44,5 inlet, 38 exhaust) do i have to fit new or maybe larger valve seat rings or can i open out the standart valve seat rings?

    Regards
    Lars

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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    the inlet you can just recut to suit the bigger valve but if the head has unleaded inserts for the exhaust you will need bigger inserts fitted

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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    just read the whole thread from begining to end, very interesting stuff. im an apprentice mechanic but never get to build engines, just heads and the likes for gaskets, its nice to pick up a little info like this.

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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    just had word daves up and running, its in a different car with carbs and dizzy not injection unlike it was intended, but so far so good :prey:

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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    As Graham says, plans changed. My Escort had a sick engine, so "Dave" has now gone in there.
    It has twin 40's on it and a Bestek dissy.
    First impressions are that it is a strong smooth engine.
    I only got it finished late last night, so a very short test run. This morning I have rechecked and adjusted the timing, which made it sound even better.
    I'm about to set off on a 450 mile round trip. Nothing like a proper test run to get it run in.
    Once again, a massive thanks to Graham for everything. Proper good bloke.

  8. #128
    World Champion Decade Plus User Mk2Matt's Avatar

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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    As Graham says, plans changed. My Escort had a sick engine, so "Dave" has now gone in there.
    It has twin 40's on it and a Bestek dissy.
    First impressions are that it is a strong smooth engine.
    I only got it finished late last night, so a very short test run. This morning I have rechecked and adjusted the timing, which made it sound even better.
    I'm about to set off on a 450 mile round trip. Nothing like a proper test run to get it run in.
    Once again, a massive thanks to Graham for everything. Proper good bloke.
    Nice one Dave I ran my engine in on motorways (trip to and from Canterbury and then a trip to Santa Pod and back the next day ) and seems fine to me

    I drive like a granny anyway

  9. #129
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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    believe it or not chaps, these days with better quality components and more accurate machining and improved oils the best way to run an engine in is mixxed driving at mixed loads and rev ranges, sitting on a motorway at light throttle isnt actaully very good, my running in advise would be just drive normally, but avoid really big throttle openings or really high revs, either way im sure it will be fine.

    dave and matts engines might make interesting comparision, they both have the same cam, dave probablyy had a bit more copmpression it has big valves the smaller carbs will hold back the top end power but should make for a nicer engine with better lowdown perforance and probably economy

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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    Sorry Graham, I didn't read that til I was in Essex
    I drove at varied revs and speeds, putting it under various loads without going dolally. I was careful that I didn't sit at one speed all the way. I have to say, it was extremely hard not to put my foot down hard.

    Now, here's the even better news.
    From my place to South Mims services is 172 miles. Filling the tank brim full at home, then again at the services meant I put 24litres in.
    This means it is doing 32.6 MPG!!
    How cool is that?
    The big aim of the engine build was economy, I think that was achieved quite impressively.

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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    sounds good dave, infact returning 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts is proof that although unusual they can give good economy.

    with a few more miles under its belt and a RR session i would of though you could get a bit more.

    given a vac advance dizzy and a dgav you could probably squeek nearer 40mpg

    out of interest what would ypou of expected from your old engine, 25mpg?
    Last edited by Graham; 06-12-2008 at 19:58.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    jumping in a bit here (ill only borow the thread ) But my 2.0 in my capri (all standard) gets about 34-38mpg on a run. how much of an increase could i expect with EFi?
    And i drove past the halfway house twice today, seems some of you are already there, yet i saw no old fords on the way!

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    on a long run where your at a constant throttle for most of the time not a huge amount more 3-4 id say, more mixed lower speed stuff a bit more, lots of cold starts and short journeys more like 7-10

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    Re: budget economy pinto with some power, how to rebuild a pinto named Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    out of interest what would ypou of expected from your old engine, 25mpg?
    My last run from Kent to Cheshire, at almost constant 75-80 was about 25mpg.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    Very impressive this
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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    Get some injection on it Dave, my 200bhp 24v Cortina was averaging 30.2 mpg in mixed driving which included a 100mph run to Yorkshire and a blast round the hills. :P

    Seriously though im well impressed its more pokey AND more economical than standard, although i guess if you improve the engines efficency then it stands to reason it could be if set up right.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    Quote Originally Posted by popuptoaster View Post

    Seriously though im well impressed its more pokey AND more economical than standard, although i guess if you improve the engines efficency then it stands to reason it could be if set up right.
    that was name of the game popup, make it breath better, it then needs smaller throttle openings and less revs for the same power which is why i ported the head fitted big valves and went for a very mild cam, whilst also improving thermal efficiency with high compression, had the block needed boring or the crank grinding i would of gone for getting a bigger capacity, i was trying for V6 essex grunt but with the economy of a modern injected 2.0 production engine

    i dare say more mpg would come through carefull setting up, afterall i only gave dave a guestimate with regards to ignition timing and the carbs cant be jetted spot on,

    it should in thery also happily pull a longer final drive

    even so im quite chuffed myself in compairison to daves old engine roughly a 25% improvement on all the same ancilleries

    looking through some old copies of autocar to see what a std rs2000 was good for the figures ranged from 23-30 mpg with with the average being 26-27mpg
    Last edited by Graham; 07-12-2008 at 11:28.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    so dave what engine for the capri

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    Well, Matts Dad is selling that Essex again, and fuel has seriously dropped in price.
    Ps. that was me on Alis computer

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    using a similar engine recipy but with a modded 38dgas carb and stick a 3.0 capri atlas and diff in it, with a T9 youd probably see 25-27mpg, whereas from memory a std 3.0 capri normally does about 22mpg and a modded one about 17mpg

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    Mk mk2 capri 3.0s usually does between 25 and 28 mpg with the 4 spped box all standard apart from janspeed manifolds and exhausts. But on a run down to norwich from mansfield the other year i got 29 mpg at a (very) steady 70mph. My mate's just built an essex with bits from john wade. Using his gt spec cam and tweaked heads. by the feels of it must be about 180bhp and does about the same as mine on fuel.
    mk2 capri 3.0s
    focus 1.6 zetec runabout

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    With fuel prices coming right back down again, economy has become much less of an issue, although how long they will stay low is anyones guess.
    Economy is of course a big bonus all the same.

    It did exactly the same mpg on the way home too, with probably a slightly higher average speed.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    excellent, your be able to give it a few beans now and tell us whether a caravan cam can give un-caravan like speed

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    I reckon it will pull a caravan or two with ease.
    It accelerated all the way up Kelsall bypass (a very steep hill) which was more than the car that thought he was going to overtake me could do. I never saw them again

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    I'm still gonna tout the BHP per pound note the 24v would give in a capri.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    It accelerated all the way up Kelsall bypass (a very steep hill) which was more than the car that thought he was going to overtake me could do.


    i love it when a plan comes together

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    Quote Originally Posted by popuptoaster View Post
    I'm still gonna tout the BHP per pound note the 24v would give in a capri.

    i'd agree popup, i helped with fitting one in a mk3 cortina, everyone though the cortina performed far better than a mere 200bhp would suggest, ther were more than a couple of scoobys in the area that got there doors blown off..............................

    in a straight line that it

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    for a bit of comparison, my 1700 xflow managed 26.53mpg on a recent run (200 miles, motorway and over the hills blast) which i was pretty impressed with, but given the power output is very similar to 'dave' it makes it all the more impressive that you have more economy and more torques

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    i'd agree popup, i helped with fitting one in a mk3 cortina, everyone though the cortina performed far better than a mere 200bhp would suggest, ther were more than a couple of scoobys in the area that got there doors blown off..............................

    in a straight line that it
    yeah mine was seriously iffy going round corners but bloody fast other wise, suprised a bloke in an old air cooled 911 carrera and my mate in his RS focus and scared me missus while really annoying a bloke in an early Mitsibushi Evo on the way back from southend one night by being braver than him on the bends on the A127 and faster on the straight bits.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    It accelerated all the way up Kelsall bypass (a very steep hill)

    The Kelsall bypass is a very good test of how good your engine is, i've had quite a few cars that have only just made it to the top of that in 3rd
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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    The fields on the left going up the steepest bit are ours. I've seen quite a few that didn't make it to the top at all.
    Lorries seem to be the trickiest, it looks impossible to tip the cab when parked on that hill.
    When the bypass was built, it took 14 acres of our land.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    Theres a steepish hill coming up into Brentwood from the M25, its probably only a mile long but i'm always testing which of my cars will get up it in top gear while staying at the 30mph limit, most of em cant do it, my Cortina could, my old 4 speed granny could and the merc coupe makes it up there without downshifting through the autobox my old 460ci big block Fairmont never even noticed it. lol

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    I was going to leave any further comments until it had been on a rolling road, but I changed my mind.
    This engine in my Escort is absolutely fantastic, I love it.
    Pulls like mad, accelerates like mad, idles perfectly and behaves at all speeds, revs, traffic conditions. It is so much fun too.
    I know it isn't one of the highest powered cars by a long way, but it's plenty for me. In fact if it was any more powerful I would probably hurt myself or the car.
    I don't drive round looking for people to race with, but now and then people seem to think "I'll get past that old car". They don't!
    I'm extremely grateful for all the time and skill Graham put into it.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave



    oh sucks dave im all embrassed now

    thanks for your very kind comments, and letting me play with what was at the end of the day your money

    sure dave you hit the nail on the head, in pure BHP this engine will be way down on many, afterall it is fitted with a CARAVAN cam,

    but what i strove for is to get a really good proper usable engine giving good power from low revs, by doing a little bit of everything but nothing extreme,

    bhp wise i could of easily got the same power at a lower cost using a std head and a rally cam, it wouldnt of been anywhere near as nice to use,

    when it does come to the rollers it will be interesting to see a compairson to other engines especially Esme (130bhp if i remember right), which has same cam, but smaller valves but efi on yb management as opposed to your big valves carbs and dizzy

    glad your pleased with it
    Last edited by Graham; 18-01-2009 at 16:21.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    Top thread for me this one.....i'm very new to engine rebuilds, in fact never even taken a piston out before!!!! but am in the middle of a 2.0 rebuild myself, not looking for massive bhp, just a good reliable engine for a '7 style' kit car. ive made one or two mistakes though. The engine is out of a 1989 transit...will it be a low compression version, will this affect performance badly if at all? ive had block rebored to +0.5mm with new pistons but have broken a ring re fitting them (if youre fitting new rings to your 2.0 +0.5mm would one of your used ones fit mine....i know thats very bad practise but the £££££££'s i'm spending on it are going through roof) Ive fitted new valves and valve springs (kent vs9's) ive got a camshaft with no lobe wear at all but i think its out of a 1.6, is the cam lift etc drastically different to the 2.0 or will it do me a decent job. Admittedly some of these things may seem obvious to more experienced engine boffs, bear with me i'm still learning (mature student you could say!!!) A self proclaimed expert once said to me "stick to what you know"....i took no notice of him, and glad i did cos w'ed never learn anything would we!!!. i'll be reading this thread every night keep it up.

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    just seen start date for this thread.....ive just spent last 10 minutes writing the above....will anyone read it....who knows......

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    fitting a second hand ring is a bad idea it will never seal properly against the bore.

    low comp will cost you 5-10 bhp and the engine will do less MPG compaired to high comp,

    as you already have new pistons i'd recomend getting 0.060 skimmed off the block to raise the compression and improve the squish, to raise it a bit more fit a "felpro" head gasket this will give you around 10.1 cr
    1.6 cam is also a bad move in a performance engine thats probably another 5-10 bhp lost, change it for a 2.0 as a minimum better still fit a performance cam

  38. #158
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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    thanks for that, guessed the used ring was a bad idea, just well pi**ed off that a silly mistake will cost me around £50 - 60 for a complete set when only need one ring. any suggestions on what cam to go for,dont want to be too radical cos ive read that loads of other stuff will need upgrading if i do....cheers

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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    The engine that this one replaced was low comp. Had it not had worn rings I wouldn't have changed it. I would have put this engine in the Capri as planned. (I'm glad I did though )
    Nothing terribly wrong with a low comp engine in my opinion, but a high comp is better, and this one better still.
    '89 Transit might not be low comp, we had 2 of them and they weren't. As the engine is in bits you can easily tell anyway, the pistons sit a couple of mm down the bores when at tdc. ie. not flush with the top of the block.

  40. #160
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    Re: budget economy pinto, 32.6 mpg on sidedrafts, a pinto named dave

    did you order transit pistons ? or just 2.0 pinto pistons? keep learning

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