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Thread: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Hi all,

    i have been searching the forum for pinto threads, most of the Threads I have found talk about the higher end of the power/cost scale. I have my Vauxhall conversion parts for sale in the for sale section as I am going the pinto route. I am getting a standard, injection, 205 pinto engine from a friend as I have heard this is the best route. I have a pair of twin 40's and at the moment that's it. I would like to put a fast road cam in or something like that, how ever reading threads on here people talk in binary code lol I haven't got a clue.

    I was wondering if you could suggest a setup which would achieve about 130+ Bhp - I am on a budget, as in I don't have a huge amount of money. So the cheapest way of getting the best bhp (within reason) would be good, I am sure everyone wants that, but I have no idea of costs.

    could someone give a rough costing for a few parts? I was planning on using a standard bottom end, so things like how much would it cost to have the head ported and polished? Would I need anything else to go with a fast road style cam? Things like rockers valve springs etc.

    i know pintos have been covered millions of times, I can see that from searching but most people who are asking the questions seem to have a great knowledge to start with.

    Any help would be gratefully appreciated,

    thanks
    kris

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    with your 40's just a mild cam and a bit more compression should see you 130bhp

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    Mechanic snapper1's Avatar

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    My recipe for this is a standard injection engine with bike carbs and an FR32 cam plus a 4 Branch exhaust manifold and the largest pipercross filter I can fit. I'll fit a Rhienz gasket at 1mm or 1.3mm
    I like Megajolt because I can set any ignition curve with ease and you won't be far off your target.
    When money becomes available you can spend it on head work and still use all the other bits.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    first up check your basic engine is a good unit, if it needs work then this will shape your path. if you do indeed have an injection head then the 130 should be relatively easy.

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Thanks for the replies all,

    do any of you know of a rough costing for a port and polish on the head?

    Also could you recommend a cam? I would like a medium sort of cam, I do plan to use the car for a few auto solos and hill climbs. I dream of having a nice powered engine, but in reality I can't. Although as 'snapper1' said, I can still use the basic parts if I do more to the engine later on.

    Also I am just thinking ahead, I have the 1600 sport engine and gearbox in the car, it is a type 2 gearbox. Does this gearbox fit on a pinto? I originally bought a 5 speed type 9, which I am now going to sell as I don't want to cut the floor to pieces to fit it, the car is too tidy for that. If it doesn't fit, what's my best basic option? I have heard of a rocket box? Is that an rs2000 box?

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmp View Post
    Thanks for the replies all,

    do any of you know of a rough costing for a port and polish on the head?

    Also could you recommend a cam? I would like a medium sort of cam, I do plan to use the car for a few auto solos and hill climbs. I dream of having a nice powered engine, but in reality I can't. Although as 'snapper1' said, I can still use the basic parts if I do more to the engine later on.

    Also I am just thinking ahead, I have the 1600 sport engine and gearbox in the car, it is a type 2 gearbox. Does this gearbox fit on a pinto? I originally bought a 5 speed type 9, which I am now going to sell as I don't want to cut the floor to pieces to fit it, the car is too tidy for that. If it doesn't fit, what's my best basic option? I have heard of a rocket box? Is that an rs2000 box?

    Thanks
    Kris

    Hmm port and polish, polish doesnt do a dammed thing.

    your best and cheapest bet is find an injection head, the inlet on them flows as much air as most modified standard heads. as for cam piper 134.

    gearbox will fit on a pinto, although it might not last long.

    lots of people call a rs2000/cortinamk3/4/5 box a rocket box, thats not strictly true, a rocket was a set of close helical ratios fitted to the rs2000 box

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmp View Post
    Thanks for the replies all,

    do any of you know of a rough costing for a port and polish on the head?

    Also could you recommend a cam? I would like a medium sort of cam, I do plan to use the car for a few auto solos and hill climbs. I dream of having a nice powered engine, but in reality I can't. Although as 'snapper1' said, I can still use the basic parts if I do more to the engine later on.

    Also I am just thinking ahead, I have the 1600 sport engine and gearbox in the car, it is a type 2 gearbox. Does this gearbox fit on a pinto? I originally bought a 5 speed type 9, which I am now going to sell as I don't want to cut the floor to pieces to fit it, the car is too tidy for that. If it doesn't fit, what's my best basic option? I have heard of a rocket box? Is that an rs2000 box?

    Thanks
    Kris

    Hmm port and polish, polish doesnt do a dammed thing.

    your best and cheapest bet is find an injection head, the inlet on them flows as much air as most modified standard heads. as for cam piper 134.

    gearbox will fit on a pinto, although it might not last long.

    lots of people call a rs2000/cortinamk3/4/5 box a rocket box, thats not strictly true, a rocket was a set of close helical ratios fitted to the rs2000 box

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    Racer Decade Plus User wildo105e's Avatar

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmp View Post
    Also I am just thinking ahead, I have the 1600 sport engine and gearbox in the car, it is a type 2 gearbox. Does this gearbox fit on a pinto? I originally bought a 5 speed type 9, which I am now going to sell as I don't want to cut the floor to pieces to fit it, the car is too tidy for that. If it doesn't fit, what's my best basic option? I have heard of a rocket box? Is that an rs2000 box?

    Thanks
    Kris
    Type 9 will fit without major cutting assuming we are talking about an escort. Use rs2000 bellhousing and no bashing is needed. The only cutting is to turn around the gearstick hole and is pretty easy to cut out and spin around.
    Rs2000 box is basically the same as a Type 9 without the 5th gear.
    Last edited by wildo105e; 04-10-2017 at 09:58.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Has anyone else noticed how many double posts we are getting lately ? Or is it a display issue my end ? (Doubt it)


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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    You need either the type E 4 speed (rs box) or the t9 box. On both you just need to cut the rear tunnel brace and reverse the hole position- that's how ford did it. Don't waste time and effort using the 1600 box as it won't last a month. Keep T9 trust me !



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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Would this fit on the Pinto and in the mk2 tunnel?

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232505321731

    i don't want to put a large tunnel in and like the idea of keeping the type9. I have a mk2 escort and it is advertised for a mk1?

    any help is greatfully appreciated.

    thanks
    kris

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    Racer Decade Plus User wildo105e's Avatar

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    That looks like a cast (seirra probably) bellhousing which requires some hammer adjustment on the bulkhead. Using an alloy rs2000 one and no hammer needed and are a lot lighter. They are available new these days just adds extra £ to the job. Or get a second hand one but inspect it well as threads can wear and they can get cracks only visible when tightened up, trust me I know. You will also need a couple of mounting blocks available which will fit on existing mounts or invent your own style. It's all pretty straight forward stuff. also remember about clutch cable or hydraulic. If cable make sure you get the release arm etc.

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    Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    A standard t9 will fit - you don't need a big tunnel.
    You do t need a different bel housing but the alloy one is a lot smaller so a lot easier to fit box. You still need to mod the stick area


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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    I fitted a type 9 with cast bellhousing into a standard tunnel and I just adjusted it a bit with a big hammer, I didn't go mad just enough for some clearance wouldn't like taking the box out on its own though but taking out the crossmember bolts and lowering it give you the clearance you need to take the box out easily
    Keep her lit

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    I have a quick shift gear lever on my type 2 gearbox, would that fit a type 9? I am looking at alloy bellhousings but I am not too sure about the new ones which are £100.... think I would rather spend a bit more and get one from burtons or something.

    would I need a wccm or any special mounts for the engine? Just trying to gather some parts before I start the conversion.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    you dont need a wccm, but you do need different mounts

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    Racer Decade Plus User wildo105e's Avatar

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    Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Rs2000 sump or modded steel one rs2000 engine mounts. You will need a type 9 gearstick as it bolts in on 3 bolts. Also consider propshaft and exhaust
    Last edited by wildo105e; 05-10-2017 at 17:16.

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    I am slowly getting the parts together for the conversion, I have managed to get a 205 engine with a standard head, searched the internet over Xmas and managed to get an injection head too. Got a second hand Ashley manifold, brand new middle section to connect up to my xflow box. Rs2000 sump, pick up pipe, engine mounts, clutch cable and rad, also an inlet manifold to go with my twin 40’s along with a sytec throttle cable, picked up a slightly lightened and balanced flywheel.

    Still need to get a clutch and rs2000 alloy bell housing.

    Have any of you had a block decked before? I have been advised to get it done but not sure on costs/reliability?

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmp View Post

    Still need to get a clutch and rs2000 alloy bell housing.

    Have any of you had a block decked before? I have been advised to get it done but not sure on costs/reliability?

    Thanks
    Kris
    i have a std 3 piece luk clutch kit. the release bearing and cover have never been used, the plate had about 10 mins use in an MG magnette.

    just about every pinto i have ever built has had the block decked, most only by about 20 thou but some way way more. decking the block is no bad thing, you cant beat having a really good surface for gaskets to seal on. As a way to raise compression it has more effect than skimming the head, it also increases squish more squish makes an engine less prone to pinking

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Thanks for the quick reply, I have never heard of anyone having their block decked personally which is why I was unsure. Sounds good though, I can see the benefits of it, if you don’t mind me asking - what does something like this cost to have done? i Guess there is more involved than skimming a head? I don’t want to have to strip the engine down internally, is it possible to have it done with the crank etc still in?

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    The engine'll need stripping right down for the block to be skimmed and then a thorough clean out. There's no short cut to doing such jobs.

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Ok thanks for the info, it isn’t something I will be doing at the moment then, I have a little one due any time and I can’t afford to do a complete rebuild, in fact I am not sure I will be able to fit the engine for quite a while ha ha.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    My pinto is as follows,
    205 block
    Block deck hight 0.381mm
    Injection head, ported abit with standard size valves. Now has uprated valve springs, I I reve'd it to hard and broke one.
    Head was skimmed about 1mm
    1mm felpro gasket
    Newmans ph4 cam with adjustable pulley
    Twin 40 dcoe webbers
    Ashley 4-2-1 manifold.

    From my experiences the tuning of everything working together correctly, carbs set correctly, ignition timing, cam timing.is what helps the most, It's making 130/140bhp and pulls well from low down.

    I have a 5 speed type 9 and a 4.4:1 diff


    Good luck with the little one,

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    So.... as it turns out, I had the engine decked well to cut a long story short - I gave my engine to someone to fit the fast road cam into the injection head and rebuild the head and put it on the engine with a view of rebuilding it next year. Go to pick the engine up and he has had the block decked and totally rebuilt the engine without telling me he was going to do it. Some major miscommunication somewhere....?

    So this means i have a lovely engine and a not so happy wife, I am focusing on the lovely engine for now ha ha. Would someone be kind enough to explain the best way of pumping oil around the engine without fitting it in the car? I am not fitting it until winter time but apart from the lubrication on the parts fitted there is no oil in or around the engine.

    What oil would you recommend? The engine chap recommended Castrol 20/50 which Is the same in our mini, but I thought I read somewhere about valvoline vr1 oil? That’s what I have in my standard xflow, is it ok in a pinto?

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    any half decent 20w50 will be fine.

    if the engine is being stored somewhere nice and dry, you dont really need to worry about lubrication until its time to fire it up, but if you store it somewhere that isnt warm and bone dry, make sure he cam has plenty of cam lube over it and put a small amount of oil down the plug holes and turn the engine over with a spanner. occasionally.

    best way to prime the engine before firing it up is to take the dizzy out and spin the oil pump drive with a drill and socket

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    As per Graham's advice, but if your lazy like me, put the 6mm socket on an extension with a cordless drill.
    When it flows out at the camshaft, you do a cheeky little smile.
    Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_20180327_163855529~01.jpg Views:	163 Size:	131.0 KB ID:	83058

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    Re: Cheap pinto tuning advice please

    Thanks everyone, I did the drill option and primed it.

    I am looking to get a coil, nothing silly but I don’t even have a standard one, looking at a Bosch blue? For a fast road cam engine which I plan to use on the road mostly, it it worth putting a 9v system instead? Is it easy to put a ballast resistor in?

    The engine is a 2.0 pinto, fast road cam, decked (not all the way to make a flat top) and twin 40 Weber’s.

    Finally regarding the Weber’s, would anyone be able to tell me what jets I would need? I will take it to rolling road any way but would like to run it in and Iron out any probs if there is before taking it there so would like to do a couple hundred miles. I have no idea what’s in the carbs and I don’t want to be misfiring when trying to drive it to run it in.

    Thanks
    Kris

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