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Thread: rs turbo gearbox

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    rs turbo gearbox

    hi anyone know how hard or easy it is to rebuild an rs turbo gearbox? was going to send it to cts but i have been hearing bad things about them recently and i noticed i can get all the parts i need through work for about £60 ive done a few garboxes in my time having been a mechanic for 11 years just havnt done any of these before, is there anything i should look out for?
    cheers

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Get yourself an Escort Haynes manual. That goes through it all.
    Or as I did, used the Ford TIS DVD and printed it out from there. I took one apart and transposed the LSD from a BC box into an IB5 box. Not quite a rebuild but showed me how to take it apart
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    It is a nice gearbox to build, two weak points are the diff bearings and the main shaft bearing beside the final drive gears, always fit new diff bearings.

    I am rebuilding one at the moment, I found a good guide to stripping down the gearbox/building it here:
    http://www.quantums.info/gearbox.htm

    It has all the info you need for rebuild, the main shaft in my gearbox was worn, (they usually are because this is the weakest link in this type of gearbox) I modified mine so that it has a hardened internal sleave pressed onto the main shaft and uses a roller bearing which is 3mm wider.
    I ordered the parts including the special bearing from www.bearingkits.co.uk

    Only cost me about £70 for the parts+gasket set.
    The baulk rings don't seem to wear much at all, I didn't need to replace them.

    It is a very nice gearbox to work on because it is split into 3 seperate pieces, much easier to build than a rear wheel drive gearbox, just memorise how you took it apart, measure and mark a few things, it is a pretty easy rebuild especially if you are mechanically minded.

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    i've done quite a few of these, including fitting puma IB5 gearsets to get closer ratios#

    its quite an easy box to rebuild as long as you have a 5th gear puller

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    i've done quite a few of these, including fitting puma IB5 gearsets to get closer ratios#

    its quite an easy box to rebuild as long as you have a 5th gear puller
    Did you use a spacer plate to allow IB5 internals to be fitted into a BC gearbox?
    I noticed that the IB5 gearbox cluster is a couple of mm longer, probably due to the wider bearings close to 5th gear.
    Also the main shaft bearing is a larger diameter so the casing would have to be bored out to suit.

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    ive done it a couple of different ways, the IB5 middle casing is longer so if you use that it will account for the difference in length, another way which worked on a race car for several seasons was to make up the length by using a second "c" under each "c" clip and two gaskets,

    re the main shaft bearing theres an easy cheat on that, grind the end down, then grind a groove in the bearing sleeve on the shaft and chisel it off, underneith that you will find a nicely ground shaft which fits straight into the BC bearing- no casing boreing required.

    1.7 puma has std bc 1st and 2nd ratio but much lower 3rd,4th and 5th, IB5 crown wheel fits 8 bolt turbo LSD.

    i've modified 5 boxes so far, all have been used with 100% reliablity on circuit racing cars, including one with a 200bhp ZVH engine and massive touring car slicks

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    if you can find one a brazilian ford KA has a 4.65 final drive

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    ive done it a couple of different ways, the IB5 middle casing is longer so if you use that it will account for the difference in length, another way which worked on a race car for several seasons was to make up the length by using a second "c" under each "c" clip and two gaskets,

    re the main shaft bearing theres an easy cheat on that, grind the end down, then grind a groove in the bearing sleeve on the shaft and chisel it off, underneith that you will find a nicely ground shaft which fits straight into the BC bearing- no casing boreing required.
    Thanks for that trick, very handy the way the inner is the perfect size when you remove the sleave.
    Pity I didn't know this before I got my gearbox machined but I will know for the next time.

    1.6 focus gearbox has the larger bearings + wider final drive gears and 8 bolt diff.


    Ratio's are:
    1st 3.583
    2nd 1.926
    3rd 1.281
    4th 0.951
    5th 0.765

    Final drive ratio's for focus are:
    1.4 3.610
    1.6 3.824
    1.8 4.059

    All ratio's from haynes.

    I can't understand why a 1.4 engine has a 3.6 final drive and a 1.8 has a 4.06?
    I thought it would be the other way around, bigger final drive ratio for less power to give it more torque in all gears.

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    the wider focus final drive might cause problems, as i did another box as a one race stop gap whilst we waited for a quaife gearset, when i stripped that box to fit the quaife internals i found marks where the focus crown wheel had been hitting something cant remember what though,

    every IB5 box ive spripped has had an 8 bolt crownwheel

    1996-1999 1.7 puma ratios

    3.54
    1.926
    1.414
    1.108
    0.878

    1.4 pumas and later 1.7 dont have such good ratios

    puma final drive is 3.8 from memory,
    KA finsl drive is stupidly long something like 3.3

    so i usually nicked a 4.27 from a 1.25 fiesta box to go with it
    if you want to use an IB5 middle casing use a KA one so you can keep
    the normal bc clutch cable
    Last edited by Graham; 26-10-2008 at 14:26.

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Nice 3rd 4th and 5th ratio's, what a mix up of parts lol, would make a big difference to performance and reliability.

    Do you use the IB5 selector forks or the BC ones?

    Do you use the so called "uprated" bearings in your gearboxes or just std replacements?

    Many thanks for the info

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    i just used std replacement bearings, as for selector forks i think they are the same as i cant remember using anything specific, the bolt in selector from the IB5 which selects the correct fork ( if you see what i mean) is also worth using because its positively sprung in the 3rd/4th plain which the drivers have all reported makes a much better positive shift and reduces the chances of wrong slotting the box

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    the bolt in selector from the IB5 which selects the correct fork ( if you see what i mean) is also worth using because its positively sprung in the 3rd/4th plain which the drivers have all reported makes a much better positive shift and reduces the chances of wrong slotting the box
    That is interseting, I might use the focus one in my gearbox.
    I think that selector plate is called a gate.

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    its not the gate, but the spring loaded right angled thingy that connected the gear box input selector shaft to the actual selectors

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    cheers everyone for all the replies its given me plenty of ideas thanks again

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Some great info there guys!!

    Graham, might have to talk to you in the future ref a g/box build, depending on how mine goes
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Graham could you make this thread a sticky please?

    Jason

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    ok i have got an IB5 box, and an S2 LSD ready to go in, i really want a good close ratio for the strip, i have heard that the IB5 has notoriously poor long gears. i have looked into getting ST150 gear set.

    st150 gear ratios
    3.580 1st
    2.040 2nd
    1.410 3rd
    1.110 4th
    0.880 5th
    3.620 reverse
    3.820 final drive

    i have 13 inch wheels with 195/45/13's and id like to be over the line flat out in fith. 110 120mph tops i reckon? graham ur box sounds good but sourcing all the parts and fitting it all together sounds a mission. CTS said i might just get away with changing the final drive to achieve what i want.

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Would i be able to fit the focus ib5 internals into my ib5 in my escort gti, the gear linkage and speedo outputs are different but i guess i would just have to keep my casing and use the focus insides? I have a focus box in stock you see and fancy having a play around to see if i can get the ratios a bit better as its horrid as is. Failing that i could always buy a puma box as the ratios are better, again i assume it should just go straight in?

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    from my experience it should all fit dave

    if you dont fancy doing it yourself and wanna venture up this way one day i'll give you a hand to do it and it we can make a tread of it

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    maybe mate

    Using gearcalc and my printout from t+r it would seem my gti box is a 4.06 ratio already so no point putting in the focus internals as they are pretty much the same gearing?

    Escort ib5 gears are:
    1st 3.15
    2nd 1.91
    3rd 1.28
    4th 0.95
    5th 0.75

    Diffs: 3.82, 3.84, 4.06, 4.27 (according to model)

    Focus Ratios:
    1st 3.583
    2nd 1.926
    3rd 1.281
    4th 0.951
    5th 0.765

    Diff 4.059

    Thinking i should get the puma gearkit as it looks a lot different particularly 3,4 + 5th gears which is where my car seems to feel out of the power band and sluggish when changing gear, and at the moment with the wheels im running its geared for 150mph flat in 5th which it will never ever pull.

    Heres a quick play around with gearcalc, it would seem that the puma set with the 4.06 from my current box might be the best way to go, 128mph flat out which it is more likely to pull, it made 119 in 4th on the rollers?

    Last edited by dangerousdave; 03-09-2009 at 14:02.

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    i've put puma gears in several boxes now and always had really good feed back the closer 3,4 and 5th make a big difference, FYI std puma final drive is 3.8 so to really benifit you do need to drop it, i usually use a 4.29 from a fiesta box, but if the gti has a 4.1 that would work too

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Cheers graham, i figured its not really worth the extra expense when i have the 4.06 sat in my box anyway

    Will it be a pretty simple swap over or is there some precise machining to be done too? Just wondering if i should have a go myself or if its tricky then take you up on your offer!

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    if your escort has the IB5 box then it should all be a straight swap you just need a 5th gear puller, if your escort ( i didnt release escorts had the IB5) has the earlier bc box then its still pretty easy, you just need to do a mod with an angle grinder, and use an IB5 middle casing or use 2 geaskets and some extra clips to space out the 5th gear housing
    Last edited by Graham; 03-09-2009 at 16:48.

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Definately an ib5 graham everything is ib5 except the diesels, rs2000's and the 130ps mk5 xr3is which are mtx75's.

    Can i get the 5th gear puller from anywhere or is it something i would need to make?

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    sykes pickavent used to make them, trying ti get 5th off without one is practically impossible as the gear is shrunk on the shaft and you cant get a normal puller in there
    Last edited by Graham; 03-09-2009 at 17:29.

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    think you should take grahams offer, and get a picture sticky made?

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Msport have sold all their st150 gearsets, so im going to look at the puma boxs. am i looking for just a stock 1.7 puma box or are the puma racing gearbox's any different?

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    i dont think racing pumas were any differerent, i used to buuy gear sets directly off ford using special part nos that ford racing had, but they were only normal 1.7 puma ratios, although they also did a loverly low 4.7 final drive which was from a brazilian KA, according the ford racing they were the best ratios you could get without going to quaife
    Last edited by Graham; 11-03-2010 at 19:29.

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    i dont think racing pumas were any differerent, i used to buuy gear sets directly off ford using special part nos that ford racing had, but they were only normal 1.7 puma ratios, although they also did a loverly low 4.7 final drive which was from a brazilian KA, according the ford racing they were the best ratios you could get without going to quaife
    I have a used 4.64:1 sat here ( for sale )

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Anyone know anything about changing the 5th gear ratio in a BC gearbox using standard parts (or fitting a 5th gear from a different gearbox to the input shaft)?
    See this thread:
    http://www.fiestaturbo.com/forums/ch...atio-vt188413/

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    Re: rs turbo gearbox

    Apologies for the multiple posts. Hopefully one of the moderators can delete the second one, as I can't see any way to edit or delete a post.

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