Alternator options

[wallis_]

Hi people,

been a lurker on here for years and never really posted anything but just got a duratec engine for a new project and have a few questions.

was wondering about my option with alternators, doesnt seem to be covered too much.

What are the reasons for not using the existing alternator, wiring issues, steering column clashes etc??

what alternators can/have be used instead? preferably off production cars as i have no need for a lightweight alternator. brackets arent a problem as can design them up and fab them (raceline etc prices are bit steep for fitting mounts)

can the existing idlers be utilised when re locating to the induction side or if a smaller alternator is used on the exhaust side?

sorry for all the questions as a first post, bit cheeky i know!

also what starter motors fit the duratec, is it only duratec engines or are they common with other ford engines?

[team_zi]

Pics courtesey of AdamB

This setup uses the Cosworth brackets/tensioner pulley.

The rubber insulated brackets from Raceline are for alternators with three lugs, whereas the Cosworth setup (above) allows the two lug Denso type alternator to be mounted directly to the block.

I had no room on the rear of the engine to retain the factory alternator.

More details will be available on my www.duratecinside.com website soon.

[wallis_]

cheers chap, much appreciated. started the old cogs turning. got any pics of the brackets on their own? think the lower one is just a simple L shape bracket (is that the cosworth one) and the top cast? is the tensioner a cosworth designed item?

so a daihatsu charade type alternator it is.

anyone else got pics of their set ups? its going into a mk2 cortina eventually if that makes any difference/helps.

[team_zi]

cheers chap, much appreciated. started the old cogs turning. got any pics of the brackets on their own? think the lower one is just a simple L shape bracket (is that the cosworth one) and the top cast? is the tensioner a cosworth designed item?

so a daihatsu charade type alternator it is.

anyone else got pics of their set ups? its going into a mk2 cortina eventually if that makes any difference/helps.

The tensioner looks like a stock Ford item. If anyone knows the finis code, please tell.

www.caterhamparts.co.uk sell the tensioner, for around £40.


I cant see Cosworth selling many of their water pump 'under drive' pulleys at £90, which is very steep.

Here is the top cast bracket.


The bottom bracket is an L shape, which bolts directly to the block.

[mk1matt]

I have seen them mounted on the other side too which is what i shall be doing as my dry sump pump is on that side.
Dobuy from off here has a site thats good for info http://www.biggles.net/caterham.html it is a caterham instal but gives you the idea

[wallis_]

cheers boys, much appreciated! making things much clearer now.

that tensioner looks like one already on my engine but mounted down the bottom, will have to go inspect that later! definitley ford though, can see the FoMoCo logo on top in the stupid font! also the low speed water pump pulley from cosworth, is it really necessary item for a fast road tuned engine?

matt, is there any reason for you not using the standard alternator on the exhaust side, or is it just down to size/weight etc?

[mk1matt]

Size mainly mate as i want to keep room for a manifold upgrade at some point and i also have a custom made dry sump tank on that side
Without the tank you could probably get away with a bigger alternator. But for some reason i dont think you can use the original I just for the life of cant remember why

The small alternators are also fitted to some fork lift trucks too i think if you no anyone in the trade

[wallis_]

thought as much as some of the equal length header RWD manifolds are all over the show.

got a feeling theres an issue with the ECU controling the alternator output on the standard units?!?!

well standard seem a similar price to the new nippon denso ones anyway and those brackets dont look to tricky to fab up out of billet for that side.

[team_zi]

Brise also sells an alternator mounting kit, but they wont return my calls or my emails, so I'm going the Cosworth route instead.


This is how the Dubai chaps website shows the alternator is mounted; he has an electric water pump too, so the pump has been replaced with a blanking plate and the belt therefore only drives the alternator now.

[popuptoaster]

Nissan micra alternators are cheap and compact, i had one on my 24v Cortina cos there wasn't much room.

[dobuy]

Hey its nice to see pictures of my engine, fame at last. I have had the alternator on both sides, it was moved to the exhaust due to the conversion to dry sump and the pump being placed on the inlet side. I made the mount pictured above out of box section steel and an angle grinder. Has lasted OK for over 3000 miles of track work. Bottom mount is just a bit of 3mm sheet steel bent into an L-shaped tab and slotted to allow for adjustment. Very simple, cheap and light

[mk1matt]

Fame at last

[wallis_]

turining into a very informative post this, good for us newbies to duratec installs (and osf's, this will be my first).

ive got some inch square ali bar to make a similar mount. just now got to decide what side to run it on, dont think im going to be running a dry sump so no issues there. also i have heard issues witht he standard auto tensioner at high rpm not tensioning properly, anyone heard this? dont know to do as you have dobuy and make up a slotted lower mount to allow for manual tensioning!?

[dobuy]

Yeah, I kept mine as low tech as possible, less pully's, less drag, smaller belt. If you have a choice put it on the induction side, means the main charging +ve just goes to the starter motor +ve feed so simplifies wiring and of course does not get any heat problems from the exhaust. While I have not had an yet, it can't be doing the alternator much good sitting so close to the headers.

[Adam B]

i did have that cosworth setup, but for certain reasons i went back to the standard alternator

the top tensioner is a ford item, but cosworth modify it for clearance when using t/b's

i have hopefully re-wired the standard alternator to run normally, and charge like a conventional alternator, but until the engine is running properly, i don't know

it doesn't self excite, but a quick blip on the throttle causes it to start working.

i wired it like type 4:

[team_zi]

I managed a few close photos of a Duratec at the Autosport show, and you can see the part number on the idler.






Just need to find a stockists for the pulley now

Anyone know which engine the short black water pump pipe is off?

[team_zi]

Last two pics again.

[team_zi]

[wallis_]

talk to www.coordsport.com as that where i got my tensioner from, not on their website but they found the part number from ford direct (same part number as the pic) and was a good price.

what pulley you after chap, alternator, water pump??

[team_zi]

talk to www.coordsport.com as that where i got my tensioner from, not on their website but they found the part number from ford direct (same part number as the pic) and was a good price.

what pulley you after chap, alternator, water pump??

No response from Coordsport via email. Have resent the message.

[RWD_COS]

Part number 3M5Q-6A228-AD
FINIS number 1315781
This is the tensioner for the waterpump / alternator and airconditioning pump belt on the 2004 model year Focus / CMax with a 1.8 Duratec HE engine.

Costs £70 and available from any Ford Main Dealer parts dept..

[team_zi]

Part number 3M5Q-6A228-AD
FINIS number 1315781
This is the tensioner for the waterpump / alternator and airconditioning pump belt on the 2004 model year Focus / CMax with a 1.8 Duratec HE engine.

Costs £70 and available from any Ford Main Dealer parts dept..

Just spoken to Paul at Coordsport, he can do one for a lot less so I've placed my order.

[wallis_]

oh yes a lot less than £70, good to hear chap. they were lightnening quick too and very helpful when i asked them to find the part. good prices on cosworth stuff as well it seems.

[team_zi]

The tensioner from Coordsport is indeed exactly the same as the one mentioned above.

Part number 3M5Q-6A228-AD
FINIS number 1315781

Give Paul Dolan a call if you want one for a fraction of the cost of one from Ford.



And I've fitted the Raceline front alternator mounting bracket, which leaves me little room for the alternator, so I may have another look when the engine is removed next.



Be warned though. The bracket weighs in at a hefty 1100grammes, or 2lb 6oz and is only inteded for alternators with 3 mounting points.

[dobuy]

The Raceline alternator mount is designed for fitting into Caterham's, Westfields etc. Unlikely an Escort was ever looked at

[team_zi]

Ahem, its a FIESTA!

I know that anything I'm likely to buy is never going to have been proven in a Fiesta. I like pioneering.

I am a bit surprised by the weight though. I may have to take the hole cutter to it.

[RWD_COS]

Ahem, its a FIESTA!

I know that anything I'm likely to buy is never going to have been proven in a Fiesta. I like pioneering.

I am a bit surprised by the weight though. I may have to take the hole cutter to it.

Good news you found a place that sells parts cheaper than the main dealers. I just put up the part numbers and OEM pricing as a guide. Also you should always quote the FINS number when buying Ford parts as this number is unique to the part, but the same part number can be on a number different Ford models with subtle differences.

Definitely fits a Mk2 Escort as I have the Raceline alternator set up on my 2.3 Duratec powered Mk2. A bit of info...

The Raceline alternator bracket is rubber mounted and you have to run an earth lead from your alternator body to the block. Or you will have alternator light / battery charging problems like I did

[team_zi]

The Raceline alternator bracket is rubber mounted and you have to run an earth lead from your alternator body to the block. Or you will have alternator light / battery charging problems like I did

Many many thanks for that!!!

Do we have a list of alternators that will fit on the Raceline mounting bracket? I only need a single wire, small capacity alternator, to replace my old 2 lug Brise 49A unit.

[wallis_]

ive got one of these, but im using the cosworth upper alternator mount. thats quite a hefty weight that raceline one!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nippon-Denso-l...3A1|240%3A1318

[team_zi]

Thats the same as the Brise single wire alternator I was using on the Zetec. Alas it wont fit on the Raceline bracket due to the staggered lugs.

I'm thinking something like this (same seller)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Mitsubishi...d=p4634.c0.m14

[team_zi]

The Raceline bracket also has 80mm between the lower mounting points, and 160mm from the top to the bottom lug, so I reckon that £50 alternator from Ebay should do the job. So long as the input shaft is the same diameter as the pulley....

[team_zi]

Bought one from ebay. Looking at the brise technical info, the mitsubishi's I can find on the web are physically identical to their 'competition' item, but approx 1/3rd of the cost.

[RWD_COS]

I have got the 70 amp raceline one, which is very small but costs £172.50. Does any one know what its off of ?

[alladdin]

in the westfield world its common to use a daihatsu charade item, also from bedford rascal/suzi carry i think. apparently its the same unit as sold by demon tweeks etc. details will be on the wscc forum.

[team_zi]

The cheapo Mitsubishi Unit I bought on Ebay doesn't quite fit the Raceline alternator bracket, which is made from 4mm steel by the way, and the main reason why it weighs as much as HMS Ark Royal.

So I'll copy the bracket, in 3mm steel, with revised mounting points, which I'll sell as kits so you can weld the bottom lug bracket on to suit.

The distance of the top to bottom lugs (on the pulley side of the alternator) is 160mm, its just the 80mm gap between the two bottom lugs isn't 80mm on the Raceline unit. My mistake, but at least I'll end up with something lighter than 1100g.

[RWD_COS]

After a bit of internet research it looks like the Raceline one is a Brise 5021 / Denso alternator.

http://www.brise.co.uk/documents/NDA02110055.pdf

Here is a link to the Brise website for the alternators engineering drawing a spec sheet. Might be useful for designing your own bracket.

[team_zi]

Thanks, I'll compare the drawings with the raceline bracket tonight.

This (below) is the equiv of the Brise one that I bought. Its 500g heavier than the ALT5021 that you've identified.

http://www.brise.co.uk/documents/M00111050.pdf

[team_zi]

I've emailed Denso to see if they can supply me with a standard unit, the same as the small three lug one that Brise sells (Brise 5021 / Denso alternator. http://www.brise.co.uk/documents/NDA02110055.pdf)

Will come back with a price today hopefully.

If there is a 1lb difference in the weight, its got to be worth going for the smallest unit.

[team_zi]

According to http://www.alternatormart.co.uk
its the Suzuki Samurai alternator, AL5021, and the price is £79 + VAT.

http://www.racepages.com/parts/alter...i/samurai.html

[team_zi]

I've taken the plunge and bought one from the alternator mart.
http://www.alternatormart.co.uk/

I'll flog the new Mitsubish unit, and the old Brise compy alternator, to offset the costs.