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Thread: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

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    Bodger

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    Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Evening.

    Was thinking the other night people seem to be able get very impressive gains using throttle bodies and mappable ecu on otherwise standard, zetec, duratec etc engines sometimes with upto 30bhp increases.

    Therefore could simar power gains be available on a fully standard 2.0 efi pinto except converted to use idf jenvey throttle bodies, down draught idf manifold with group one air box and mappable ecu.

    Any thoughts?

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    gains on a standard pinto will be nothing like as impressive, probably only couple of bhp, what you have to bear in mind is the other engines you mention have heads which flow way way more air than a pinto, so the induction restricts power considerably, that is not the case with a pinto, if you port the head gains will be bigger, likewise if you add a cam (even a mild one)

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Comments noted and appreciated

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    If you do want to go over to mapped ITB's, you better use DCOE style setup. The Ford Pinto IDF setup is not so super when you want real power.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Thanks for your reply Onyd

    I suggested the idf jenvey style throttle bodies because I've managed to obtain a group 1 airbox , which will give an engine bay look that was available from the factory/dealer for the mk2 rs. Also not really keen on the look of DCOE although I accept they could provide better performance.

    Graham
    Which stage of ported head would you recommended and would this include or need bigger valves?

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    something with some bigger inlet valves, it gets a good gain in flow

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Anyone seen or used the new Jenvey Heritage Throttle Bodies on a Pinto?
    They look nice, but not heard of any real world feedback on them yet.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    its a throttle body its not going to work any better or worse than a normal throttle body, it just looks different

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    I'll let you know how it works out once I finish mine I went IDF because my car is LHD and I wanted to keep the brake servo.

    Its not a standard spec pinto though. 2.1L, Stage 3 CTM head, Piper A8 cam ground to 120.5 degrees...to be honest I've got no idea what that means for the cam and the worrying part is that no one else seems to know what that means including Piper themselves but I was told that the cam should make decent torque. I went for 40mm Jenveys as they should flow better than 44mm IDF's.

    Still got to figure something out for the air filter. I wanted something that looked original but I think I'm going to end up with a couple of K&N's so I can fit some decent size trumpets.

    Kev.

    Click image for larger version Name:	Pinto.jpg Views:	396 Size:	102.2 KB ID:	82008

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    If this car is ment to be a fast-road, the A8 is way over the top. For the 120,5° LC, that's going to be tricky. If this is LC on the cam Lobes it can be OK. You will end round 112° LC at the valves. If this is grind 120,5 LC valves, it's probably on of the so many cam's grind wrong for me and now sold to you hahaha

    Please check, you should not end over 112° and only if this is a very fast engine. To be honest, I don't think this is the best cam for any IDF setup. This setup is far from as effective as for example DCOE style manifolds. And this cam need a real good head before it will start working. Same is true for the inlet manifold.
    Last edited by Dyno; 08-01-2018 at 22:56.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Interesting and useful picture Kev

    I managed to get a group one air filter from a German seller. They come up from time to time.

    I would appreciate if you could answer a few questions please.

    1. Which size idf style TB have you used.

    2. How are you connecting vacuum lines to the inlet manifold and brake servo.

    3. Did you source the TPS, fuel rail and throttle brackets from Jenvey.

    4. More pictures would also be welcome.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    For the vacuum connection, I use both connections and fit one return valve in each line (strong vac. signal and no interpolation between cylinders). By occasion, next week I got a Capri is, fitted with this setup. I'll take a picture an post for you. It will be by the end of next week.

    I'm using K&N. If you ever got a spare Group one filter, please let me know, maybe I can have it reproduce if there is enough ask for. Can you send some pictures so I can have an idea how hard it will be to copy ? I never had one in my hands.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by rustyshell View Post
    Interesting and useful picture Kev

    I managed to get a group one air filter from a German seller. They come up from time to time.

    They never seem to come up for me...Its one of my saved searches on ebay

    I would appreciate if you could answer a few questions please.

    1. Which size idf style TB have you used.

    I'm using 40mm

    2. How are you connecting vacuum lines to the inlet manifold and brake servo.

    I'm doing the same as described above. The webcon IDF manifold has a take off on number 1 & 4. I'm going to use both.

    3. Did you source the TPS, fuel rail and throttle brackets from Jenvey.

    TPS - Jenvey
    Fuel Rail - Jenvey
    Throttle bracket - Webcon
    Throttle Cable - Ford
    Manifold - Webcon


    4. More pictures would also be welcome.

    Unfortunately I'm not at home at the moment so only have this 1 other picture saved on my phone
    Click image for larger version Name:	pinto 2.jpg Views:	381 Size:	115.7 KB ID:	82016

    And for the injectors I've gone for the small weber type ones so the fuel rail will fit under the air filters.

    If you buy classic ford magazine... in one of last years issues they did a special on throttle bodies. March 2016 I think. It had an escort running IDF throttle bodies under a GP1 airbox. Looks like he used spacers on top of the throttle bodies. I can only assume it was because he used longer injectors and maybe also for the airbox to clear the rocker cover
    Last edited by Kev Ush; 09-01-2018 at 12:20.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Some IDF style ITB's use DCOE style air filter pattern. Maybe the spacer was an adaptor to make the GP1 filter fit without re-drilling?

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Dear Kev Ush,

    Please send email direct to me regarding your question. For some reason there is and error with this mailbox and I can't send anything back.

    info@amtdyno.be

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    double post
    Last edited by Dyno; 09-01-2018 at 13:25.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    Dear Kev Ush,

    Please send email direct to me regarding your question. For some reason there is and error with this mailbox and I can't send anything back.

    info@amtdyno.be
    Done!!

    Thanks

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Nice setup, but I don't know about the coilpack location.
    You're not far from crank sensor.
    I said that because I had an issue with a spark cable at around 30 cm from the crank cable sensor and it made some trouble at high rev.

    About double vacuum, interesting and it makes sense, thanks Dirk !
    Last edited by Mkdu; 09-01-2018 at 15:58.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Mkdu View Post
    Nice setup, but I don't know about the coilpack location.
    You're not far from crank sensor.
    I said that because I had an issue with a spark cable at around 30 cm from the crank cable sensor and it made some trouble at high rev.

    About double vacuum, interesting and it makes sense, thanks Dirk !
    I think the coil pack position should be ok. Ive see other people mount the coil pack on a cut down distributor. If I do run into any issues I'll just knock up a new bracket and mount it further away.

    For the brake vacuum I have been working on another solution if the vacuum from the 2 ports is not enough (although I think it will be enough)...

    Basically pretty much all modern cars run an electric vacuum pump to supply extra vacuum. Usually a Hella up28 pump. The up28 pump is used to provide extra vacuum for when a cars engine doesn't supply enough vacuum. You also get an UP30 and UP32 pump...these pumps can supply enough vacuum without assistance from the engine.

    Click image for larger version Name:	pump.jpg Views:	368 Size:	19.7 KB ID:	82017

    On the left is the standard coil. In the middle is an UP28 from a new shape corsa (although you can find them in most VW's and Jags etc) on the right is an UP32 from a Porsche. As you can see the UP28 is pretty much the same size as the standard coil. The corsa pump mount even lines up with the standard coil bracket so in my case I wouldn't have to drill any new holes to fit it.

    You do need to control the pump, it doesn't have to run all the time.

    For that I've found a vacuum ECU from a Jag x-type that will do the job. I think Mercedes also use the same ECU although I haven't seen a wiring diagram to back that up. the jag ECU just needs an ignition live, battery live, earth, signal from the brake switch and it has a feed to the pump. It has a vacuum sensor that is connected to the manifold via a 4mm pipe that senses when the vacuum drops below a certain level and kicks in the pump. I don't think I will need this at all but its there if I do and perhaps someone else can use this information if they are struggling for vacuum. Its all done with OEM parts so should be reliable.

    Click image for larger version Name:	ecu.jpg Views:	366 Size:	31.9 KB ID:	82018

    I haven't tested it yet but I will in the future when I have some spare time.
    Last edited by Kev Ush; 09-01-2018 at 17:21.

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    Last edited by Sweetcorne; 09-01-2018 at 17:30.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Yeah the last one on your list is probably the one I’ll go for. I don’t like foam filters. I wanted to go for a sealed air box and give it a cold air feed from the front but all the air boxes that are remotely affordable look like the inlet will interfere with my radiator and hoses.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Kev

    cheers for the pictures and answers.

    the article in classic ford march 2016 was the one that prompted me to go down the route with IDFs under a GP1 airbox.

    I agree the spacers look they are need to clear the rocker cover.

    keep looking for the air-box on eBay something will turn up or post an item in the wanted section, I managed to get my air-box for less than £240 it needs work but at that price couldn't say no.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies


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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    uploaded pics on pdf, cannot upload photos individually is there a file size limit?

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_20180111_131105 c.jpg Views:	325 Size:	60.8 KB ID:	82041

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_20180111_131105 c.jpg Views:	326 Size:	60.8 KB ID:	82042

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_20180111_131000 a.jpg Views:	325 Size:	89.8 KB ID:	82043

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Ush View Post
    Attachment 82016

    And for the injectors I've gone for the small weber type ones so the fuel rail will fit under the air filters.

    If you buy classic ford magazine... in one of last years issues they did a special on throttle bodies. March 2016 I think. It had an escort running IDF throttle bodies under a GP1 airbox. Looks like he used spacers on top of the throttle bodies. I can only assume it was because he used longer injectors and maybe also for the airbox to clear the rocker cover
    pm sent

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    airbox trumpets and base plate now repaired

    Click image for larger version Name:	group 1 air box picture 3.JPG Views:	308 Size:	85.3 KB ID:	82184Click image for larger version Name:	group 1 air box picture 1.JPG Views:	309 Size:	116.4 KB ID:	82185Click image for larger version Name:	group 1 air box picture 2.JPG Views:	317 Size:	81.4 KB ID:	82186

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    airbox trumpets and base plate now repaired

    Attachment 82184Attachment 82185Attachment 82186

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Nice work. Looks really good!!

    Kev.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    So just an update...

    My Capri was on the rollers today and made 131bhp at the wheels (159bhp flywheel) @ 7071rpm and 134lbft torque. I don’t know if the rollers read under or over but it drives spot on with plenty of power for the road which was all that mattered to me.

    Engine spec:

    2.1 on cast pistons
    CTM Performance Big valve head
    Piper (CTM performance) fast road cam
    Jenvey 40mm IDF throttle bodies
    Emerald ECU

    I’ll upload the print out when I get a chance.

    Cheers,

    Kev

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    28 Bhp "losses" sound like a lot to me but everything from 150 bhp and higher is a nice result for this setup. IDF style setup isn't the most performance way of inlet manifold. It start to struggle at approx 160 Bhp

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Hello im interested to know what cam you used. I have a similar setup making 128ftlb and 139hp at the wheels.

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Evening can any post up some pictures of the throttle linkage for IDF jenvey throttle bodies please!!

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    Re: Pinto on jenvey IDF throttle bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Mkdu View Post
    Nice setup, but I don't know about the coilpack location.
    You're not far from crank sensor.
    I said that because I had an issue with a spark cable at around 30 cm from the crank cable sensor and it made some trouble at high rev.

    About double vacuum, interesting and it makes sense, thanks Dirk !
    It is important that the crank position sensor uses shielded 2 core cable with the shielding earthed at the ECU, in my case I use Megajolt for spark only and that is uses EDIS. The shielded cable is still important for fuel and spark ECU’s.

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