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Thread: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

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    Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Just at the stage of fitting my round turrets to the MK1. Had a good search through the archives and there is lots of information all over the place but felt that an idiots guide (for me) would be well worth collating, before I start cutting.

    The standard response to fitting turrets is to fit the axle and use that as a reference to plumb a line upward to mark the centre of the turret box. However like several others who have done this, I can't fit an axle easily (no leafs) so want to do it based on measurements.

    So the condensation of my searches adds up to this.

    Here are some measurements that I found....
    Quote Originally Posted by GP4 View Post
    28.5" from the door aperture to the pin (centre of the turret).
    39" centres across the turrets.
    7" from the centre of rear ARB mounting to the leading point of the turret at base of chassis
    With regard to using the bump stops on the chassis rail as a reference...
    Quote Originally Posted by Retromotorsport View Post
    yes to plus or minus 10mm .. those bumps stops are just welded on anyplace close .. take the average of the 2 when measured from the spring eye bolts on the chassis ..

    Thread here with the "order of washers" for Billies http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=122781


    OK, next I stole some images from the forums, apologies to anyone who is upset or offended. In no particular order

















    Finally using an internet archiving program www.archive.org and had a look at Gary's write up, originally at http://www.classicrsfords.co.uk/5link.htm



    Then there are some pictures from my car, as I try to apply the measurements from both GRP4's comments above and Gary's comments about the bump stops.

    My axle suspension mounts 43" across



    Centre of bump stop mount to centre of front leaf spring bolt hole is 20"



    As per GRP4's measurements 28.5"s from door opening


    Inside with same 28.5"measurement


    Problem is that the centre of the bump stops and the 39" measurement do not line up, as they are about 2 cm's out. I could be taking the measurement from the wrong part

    of the door opening, as you have several possibilities where the measurement is taken from


    Anyway, that is my little bit of search, can anyone offer any measurements or suggestions (short of fitting the axle or leaf spring) to refine my centrepoint position for the turret, both top and bottom. Likewise any hot tips to help with the cutting of the opening.

    www.gulfpetrolheads.com

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Ths is the diagram Gartrac gave me. Hope it helps
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails lastscan.jpg‎  


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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    nice one fella, and a merry christmas to ya !!

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    What?

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Good pic Phil, must be going blind, but I don't appear to have the hole that is 7" in front of the turret??

    www.gulfpetrolheads.com

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    That's for the rear ARB, only some MK1s had them.
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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    And other junk I don't like to talk about!

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by dobuy View Post
    Good pic Phil, must be going blind, but I don't appear to have the hole that is 7" in front of the turret??
    I didn't either. I basically followed the top measurements, made sure the car was level and drew a centre line down the turrets. I then made sure the line was vertical and matched both sides. Seems ok on the car and lined up with the axle ok.

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Thanks Phil, was that 32" measurement taken from the inside of the door as marked by position d on my door shut photo? Looking at the photo with the ruler above the door shut one, there is a bit of a curve outwards in the door shut at the bottom of the window, so I guess I would measure just below that? Ta much for your help

    www.gulfpetrolheads.com

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    I measured the 32" in a parallel line below the rear panel trim retaining groove starting from the outer edge of the flange where the door rubbers wedge onto (position d in your photo).
    Last edited by Phil01825; 28-12-2008 at 14:46.

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Hmm, tried the 32" measurement and it seems to put it about 3-4cm more towards the rear than what I reckon the centre is based on the bump stops and other measurements. Bloody confused I am.

    www.gulfpetrolheads.com

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    can that whole article be re posted here ? i can only get the 1st page, 2nd wont show pics inc the one you posted above ?? (used the archive searcher you posted)

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    I am interested in this topic as I will be doing my own at some point, can I ask a real dumb question, what is the difference between round and square turrets (apart from shape)

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    as far as i know, nothing functional ... except square give more room. round were i think, copied from the ones cut from mk1 capri by ford originaly ???

    square are cheaper.

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    The round ones look a hell of a lot nicer!

    Also dont forget that you need to angle the shocks/turrets so that they are in to the centre of the car more at the top to get you clearance with your wheels and coilover springs for maximum wheel width

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by dangerousdave View Post
    The round ones look a hell of a lot nicer!

    Also dont forget that you need to angle the shocks/turrets so that they are in to the centre of the car more at the top to get you clearance with your wheels and coilover springs for maximum wheel width

    Now you tell me.....


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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    I think it was your post that made me think of that

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    I presume these measurements are the same on a mk1 as on a mk2???

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Not sure, but it would make sense that they do, especially the measuremet from the leaf spring bolt hole.

    What I have learned from this is fairly simple, the best way of getting the correct position is to measure and mark up the car before you take the axle off.

    With the car on a flat surface, plumb a line down your wing through the centre of the hub/wheel

    measure the centre of the axle tube a point on the spring hangar, i.e. bolt hole.

    Finally you could drill a hole directly above the axle in the wheel tub (check it again with a plumb line). You will now have several good guides to were your turrets should go.

    www.gulfpetrolheads.com

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by taf View Post
    I presume these measurements are the same on a mk1 as on a mk2???
    Hope so mine's a mk1.

    I've just been measuring to see where to put my axle mount points. It looks like they'll be approx 1054mm centres compared to 1004mm centres at the top. This seems to be the natural position, if the tops are set at 1004mm (39.5 Inches as recommended by Gartrac) and the bottoms are welded to the chassis rails. If you want the coilovers to be vertical the top centres will need to be spaced further apart to match the width of the chassis rails.
    You really need to think carefully about the space available between the edge of the springs and the inside edge of the tyres along with the total space available insided the arches otherwise you may not get the wheel/tyre combination you want to fit
    Last edited by Phil01825; 08-05-2009 at 12:30.

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Just spoke to Gartrac and they have confirmed that all measurements are the same on MK1 and MK2

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Our Mk 1 Escort has square turrets, and I'm getting them replaced with round ones in a couple of weeks.
    The car is bubble arched and runs a baby atlas. It's used for tarmac rallying.

    With the square turrets, we can't run coilovers, as there doesn't appear to be enough clearance between tyre and shock.

    Centre to centre top of turrets is 39.5", and I would like to angle the new turrets towards each other.

    What would people recommend for centre to centre distance.

    Thanks

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by dangerousdave View Post
    Also dont forget that you need to angle the shocks/turrets so that they are in to the centre of the car more at the top to get you clearance with your wheels and coilover springs for maximum wheel width
    Does this not mean though that the coilovers/dampers will no longer be vertical (across the width of the car)? I read somewhere that the works car's were vertical and that this is the optimum position.

    Would it be acceptable to keep the 39.5" centres at the turret top but mount the turrets such that the axle mounting point for the dampers is also 39.5"?

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    I think 90deg is the ideal but if its close enough i doubt youll ever notice it. I dont see why you shouldnt be able to do it the way you suggest, the rubber bushes at the top mount will probably take up the angle difference

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    [quote= Would it be acceptable to keep the 39.5" centres at the turret top but mount the turrets such that the axle mounting point for the dampers is also 39.5"?[/quote]

    I think some surgery would be required to the chassis rails to do that.

    I read in the rally prep manual (p37) that when Boreham switched from the short 4 link system to the longer 4 link system they then moved the coilover axle mounts from the front of the axle to the top of the axle which allowed them to change the coilover from 4 degrees to 8 degrees inclination. I don't know if this was an advantage for the suspension setup or just to allow wider tyres to be fitted.
    Last edited by Phil01825; 26-09-2009 at 09:29.

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?


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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil01825 View Post
    I read in the rally prep manual (p37) that when Boreham switched from the short 4 link system to the longer 4 link system they then moved the coilover axle mounts from the front of the axle to the top of the axle which allowed them to change the coilover from 4 degrees to 8 degrees inclination. I don't know if this was an advantage for the suspension setup or just to allow wider tyres to be fitted.
    OK so my original assumption that the works cars had them vertical was wrong. If it's good enough for them then I am sure it is more than adequate for me.

    It is interesting to see some of the angles that people mount their turrets on. Gary's pictures always show the top of the turret leaning in somewhat which I guess with a 4-8 degree damper angle provides the required clearance from both the wheel and the turret itself.

    Many thanks

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil01825 View Post
    I think some surgery would be required to the chassis rails to do that.

    I read in the rally prep manual (p37) that when Boreham switched from the short 4 link system to the longer 4 link system they then moved the coilover axle mounts from the front of the axle to the top of the axle which allowed them to change the coilover from 4 degrees to 8 degrees inclination. I don't know if this was an advantage for the suspension setup or just to allow wider tyres to be fitted.
    Wasn't the change or a least part of it to the top of the axle for protection from big rocks etc?? If not I claiming it

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by gorilla1q View Post
    Wasn't the change or a least part of it to the top of the axle for protection from big rocks etc?? If not I claiming it
    They got the claim already, it was one of the bonuses of being able to move the mounts to the top of the axle.

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by taf View Post
    Just spoke to Gartrac and they have confirmed that all measurements are the same on MK1 and MK2
    You must have spoken to the cleaner...couldn't have been anyone who knows about fitting turrets into Escorts. If you use the Mk.1 measurement of 32" on a Mk.2, the turrets will be entirely in the boot compartment and almost miss the wheel tub completely...you'd be better off pouring cold custard down your pants.

    I've only just spotted this thread, but if I'd seen it sooner could have told you that the measurements quoted in the first post (by me from a different thread) were for a Mk.2, and don't work for a Mk.1...but you sorted it all in the end.


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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by GP4 View Post
    You must have spoken to the cleaner...couldn't have been anyone who knows about fitting turrets into Escorts. If you use the Mk.1 measurement of 32" on a Mk.2, the turrets will be entirely in the boot compartment and almost miss the wheel tub completely...you'd be better off pouring cold custard down your pants.

    I've only just spotted this thread, but if I'd seen it sooner could have told you that the measurements quoted in the first post (by me from a different thread) were for a Mk.2, and don't work for a Mk.1...but you sorted it all in the end.

    hi GP4 you where saying you had the measurements for fitting turrets to a mk2 escort i would appreciate it greatly if you could give me those measurements as i am trying to fit some myself it will be a gravel spec car any help will be appreciated
    Regards
    Damian.

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Damian, they are in the first post of this thread

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    thank you gary for the info.
    this may be a dumb question, what does ARB stand for and is there any drawings with dimensions that i can view relating to turrets into a mk2 would be appreciated.
    Thank you,
    Regards,
    Damian.

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Damian... theres drawings in the other posts on this thread ...

    and ARB is anti roll bar

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    goodwork mate. Nice pics.
    are you able to keep rear seats when fitting turret kits?
    excuse my inexperience, Im wanting to fit turrets to my 72 2 door.
    Its lowered by 2inches, so the round turrets are the better ones?

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by mk1_72 View Post
    are you able to keep rear seats when fitting turret kits?
    Anything is possible with a little Aussie ingenuity......
    1970 Mk1 Escort Tarmac Rally Car

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Just been reading this thread with great interest as I am undertaking this job on my mk1 at the moment, however I am now more confused as the measurements given don't tally with my shell...
    I have set the car up level on a flat floor, fitted rear springs and an axle casing with 2" lowering blocks. I have also put around 70kg of ballast in the boot to try and get a realistic ride height.
    If I drop a plumb line down o the centre of the axle it puts the centre line of the turret at 31" from the door shut.
    Also the profile on the bottom of the turret box bears little resemblance to the shape of the chassis rail.

    Any thoughts anyone?

    Thanks, Steve.

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by dobuy View Post
    OK, next I stole some images from the forums, apologies to anyone who is upset or offended. In no particular order
    Absolutely offended you nicked the pics



    LOL About time somene one put all the info together well done

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    Quote Originally Posted by mk1_72 View Post
    are you able to keep rear seats when fitting turret kits?
    First pics are of my mk2. I have the rear seats fitted, no link kit as its on leaf spring

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    Re: Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    If the top of the turrets on a mk1 are at 39.5" centres, what is the centres measurement of the axle brackets? (top mounted) my trigonometry is a bit fuzzy for working out the 8deg angle!!
    Thanks a lot,
    Oliver

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    Round turrets into MK1, an idiots guide?

    I've cut out and mocked up my round turrets but the tops are at 38" centres, is it normal to trim them a little to get the specified 39.5" or do I leave them at 38"?
    Thanks

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