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Thread: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

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    Tom, this bmw gearbox has the spigot bearing inside the input shaft, that's why this tap is needed. Most of the gs6-53dz boxes are normal way around, but this box isn't. I think part of the 123d are like this. But all e60 models have normal input shaft what i have seen.

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Hi Sultzi,

    Thanks for that. I am thinking of doing something similar to adapt the end of the 2.9 crankshaft (Cosworth 24V) so that I can use a 2L type 9 gearbox with the shorter input shaft. I was a bit worried that if the adapter on the end of the crankshaft was not centred properly that it would run off a little and cause vibration or damage to the gearbox but I suppose that I can make the adapter fit into the location of the original spigot bearing.

    Great project that you are doing, I look forward to all your updates.

    Regards
    Tom
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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Amazing build...love the work ...and waiting for the next update ...cool
    cheers mark

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Tom, previosly I had that thing other way around with spigot bearing with cossy t5 box. It had too short input shaft just like t9. That worked nicely also.

    Thank you Mark, will be updating soon I think.

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Update here, couple pics too.

    Propshaft back from welding/balancing



    Been wondering how to make wider rear arches. Decided to use front fenders arch at the rear. These have a bit more profile on them than original rear arches.







    Here one side all welded and grinded, it's pretty good



    Drivers side had been giving me headaches and now it's all welded up also but still not happy with it. Need to think what to do..


    Made bump stops, axle rests on them in the pics where wheels are on. There is still 18mm space to drop the car more with 2mm stainless shims. Will see what is the best height for the stops when i get the car moving.


    Power steering lines inside the car done and also under the car.



    Made new straps to hold the fuel tank in place. Original ones where broken of the tank.



    Couple AN10 fittings to radiator, one is from expansion tank and another one is the return from the turbos and heater core


    Paint on the pumps, so they don't look so dirty


    Also painted those valve covers, they came out pretty ok


    Trial pressurised the fuel rail again and now where no leaks


    So finally i could paint the intake manifold lower part and mount it to the engine with valve covers


    Same paint on the upper radiator hose outlet


    And also for the alternator bracket and oil filter adapter/sandwhich plate.


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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    What length/diameter is the propshaft ?
    9.85 @ 145mph 202mph standing mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_c7fML3rw

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Not sure actually of the lenght at all. It has spline in the front for rear axle movement because bmw box has bolt on flange at the rear. But shaft diameter is 3".

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Only asking in terms of critical speed of a shaft, as it does appear quite long, and the car should go fairly fast.

    When I had a 1 piece on my Granada at first, it was around 57" I think. With my rear diff/tyres, which isnt short I couldnt go over 120mph without huge vibrations as the shaft's critical speed was too low. That was with a fairly slow shaft speed of around 5-5500rpm, but still too high for the length of shaft I had.

    I ended up needing a 2 piece shaft

    Maybe it isnt as long as it looks ?
    9.85 @ 145mph 202mph standing mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_c7fML3rw

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    Yeah, it might look longer than it is. I can measure it tomorrow if i remember. Havent thought that thing at all. Which is better for higher speeds? Smaller?

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Quote Originally Posted by Sultzi View Post
    Yeah, it might look longer than it is. I can measure it tomorrow if i remember. Havent thought that thing at all. Which is better for higher speeds? Smaller?
    Ok, I did go and measure it up, it's 58,75" in total length and tube itself is around 44,50" long. 6gear is 0.84, so my top speed with 7000redline is 256km/h / 160mph.

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    shorter shaft, larger diameter will all allow a higher speed before it becomes a concern

    Likewise aluminium shafts, carbon will all have a higher critical speed for any given length/diameter

    7000rpm and 0.86 will result in a propshaft speed of 8140rpm.

    I'm not 100% sure if they take measurements of the steel tube, or UJ to UJ.

    For a 3" steel tube ( assuming wall thickness ) at 58.75" long...this calculator says http://www.wallaceracing.com/driveshaftspeed.htm

    you have around a 6300rpm critical speed. ie get close to that and there is a risk of the shaft destroying itself. Best analogy is trying to spin a flag pole...it's so long and flexible, resonances will start up which can be destructive. These resonances may not be visible in the propshaft, but I know from experience they can and will happen and the vibration they cause is nasty !

    MW has an easier chart, and it says it is centre to centre of the UJ's

    http://www.markwilliams.com/driveshafttech.aspx
    9.85 @ 145mph 202mph standing mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_c7fML3rw

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Yeah, haven't really much ever thinked this, but make's sense. Somewhere they speak from center to center and somewhere just the tube lenght. Don't know does this type of shaft design which I have give any expection with the critical speed or is it just the full lenght what dictates the critical speed. If I remember right, I have .110" wall tubing, which little bit increases critical speed but also gives more weight which again lowers the critical speed?
    Last edited by Sultzi; 09-08-2015 at 09:31.

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    centre to centre to me sounds like distance between supports...ie the UJ's

    By all means try and and see how it goes. But if you do experience a bad vibration...dont waste your time having the prop re-balanced or a new prop made the same again. That will not resolve the problem.

    I learnt all of this at my own expense several years ago. I ended up having a custom 2 piece made which so far has been well tested to over 10,000rpm shaft speed
    So you have 2 short shafts hence critical speed for each is much much higher than any single long shaft. Downside is it is more expensive, heavier and potentially weaker.

    My only other option would have been a carbon shaft, and whilst some may think they're great, I still wouldnt trust one to be strong enough
    9.85 @ 145mph 202mph standing mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_c7fML3rw

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    Shaft is from center to center around 55,5" (spline aprox the lenght what it's when installed to the car). This gives around 7000rpm speed for the shaft..

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Been working with the car, still wan't this to be driven before winter and snow

    Modifying centre console to take exhaust back pressure gauges and water pump controller mountings


    All old paint needed to be sanded off before new paint.


    Fixed cracked heater box and mounted heater core and fuel pressure regulator to it. Need to change that gauge to sensor still.



    Modified gearbox fork pivot point with m10 bolt through the housing and then shortened to right lenght.


    Fork is in this position when it sits on the pressure plate


    And slave cylinder has this amount of travel with this setup, should be fine.


    Sanded and primed engine bay


    Painted, this car color seems to be very hard to get right so decided that the whole car needs overspray with this same color I now had in the engine bay. It's not much different, but too noticeable.


    Finally decided to buy bigger compressor to drive all the air tools. This has 200l tank and 920l/min of free displacement. So this is roughly ~700l/min displacement when working against pressure


    Sandblasted couple parts and then painted with hammerite


    Finally also painted top part of the inlet manifold and throttle body elbow


    Made line for the slave cylinder ready on the floor


    Then flywheel and clutch on the engine and then goes the gearbox too


    Little help with my friend shoehorn I was able to fit the whole packet in one peace to the car



    Propshaft and gearstick also mounted now, gears feel nice firm and short, very nice stick.

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    This just continues to impress... Cant wait to see what you are finally able to get out of it all...
    Shaun

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Quote Originally Posted by escortinadriver View Post
    Cant wait to see what you are finally able to get out of it all...
    So am I Let's hope nothing inside the engine thought

    Been working with the car in the evenings because car is at my work (to access crane etc)

    Mounted brake and clutch master cylinders and made line to the clutch. It seems to work very nice, not too stiff at the pedal like the previous design was with same pressure plate and much more travel too.



    Mounted oil cooler and lines


    Fitted manifolds and turbos. Made oil lines complete and filled the engine with oil. Oil pressure came up nice with drill in seconds, so everything is ok.



    Brake lines made, a bit of a hassle back there..


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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Update again..

    Exhaust is now fully done! It's made from food grade 63,5x1,5mm stainless steel pipe and elbows. Whole system is tig welded with argon also inside the pipes to give most smoothest welds.

    Downpipes needed reducers, so we made them. Avaible reducers are so short that these give more efficient flow as being longer.


    Downpipes welded all way to x-pipe




    And pictures of the final product, happy with it. Took over 20hours by me and a friend to do and 210bars of argon. Rear mufflers will be painted black too..








    Also made wiring for injectors and couple sensors so I could mount fuel rail and top half of the inlet manifold.


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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Great work !
    9.85 @ 145mph 202mph standing mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_c7fML3rw

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Great work on the exhaust system. I am interested in the x pipe on a v6 engine. Do you think it will give more power or sound better. I was going to fit one to my v6 cosworth engine in my Capri.
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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Thanks

    Previosly I had separate pipes and didn't like it so much, friend of mine had x-pipe in his ls twin turbo and it did sound nice. So i'm just testing if this way it gives more smoother and meaner sound. Really don't give any advance to power in turbo cars, just the sound. But if you have n/a 24v it should be noticeable

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    generally either X or balance pipe will make it sound smoother. But then the turbos will also help do that too.
    9.85 @ 145mph 202mph standing mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_c7fML3rw

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    I am looking for an improvement in the sound. I was thinking for a H-pipe or x-pipe setup. I have searched but I cannot find any video of a V6 capri running x or H pipes. Looking forward to seeing and hearing this car working.
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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Been long week behind! After work I have been working with this every day to around 10-11pm. A lot of stuff that isn't visible been done..

    Engine bay almost done, downpipes are now wrapped with DEI Titanium heat wrap (bay is now pretty much done after this pic)


    Trunk ready with new electrics



    Small hole in radiator, friend of mine luckily did get this fixed for me..


    There was couple issues, but they are now sorted and the car runs finally! Exhaust sounds great (phone camera sucks, doesn't sound as good as it is). Next I need to take valve covers off and install inner valve springs to the valves.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBIcPy8ts2w

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Amazing work, looking great! Can't wait to see it driving in its new spec
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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Stunning work, absolutely stunning!

    If that motor goes as well as it looks, it should be a real treat

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Thanks again

    Been working with the body lately, with help of a professional painter thank god..



    After pics I have sanded rest of the body prior to paint and also doors etc, also from underneath..

    Fuel pump broke, waiting for second hand to get the car on the dyno before snow.

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Got the fuel pump and car is working again. Changed oil and filter for coming dyno tuning..

    Center console got new paint after modifications (water pump controller and ebp gauges)


    All sanded and ready for paint


    Two coats of color done


    And finally some clear to finish it off.. Also did assemble interior to the car..



    One important things to finish exterior are those wing emblems..


    Interior..

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Hi guys!

    Car have been dynotuned now for off boost areas without boost pipes. It made 174hp at the crank and over 220nm. Small tuning where also made with spring pressure (0,6bar) all the way to 4000rpm where it started to push little bit coolant out from the expansion tank, so we stopped the tuning at that time. I decided to take the heads of to see what is the problem and see how the o-rings crushed to the head gasket. Biggest problem was that I didn't retorque head studs after few heat cycles, all where loose, turned maybe 10 to 20 degrees with same torque setting without opening nuts.

    Engine is now assembled back with new head gaskets and mopar head glue to help with the seal. I have now also retorqued the studs after heat cycle, all of them turned pretty much more. Need to check them maybe again after few heat cycles. Those o-rings make it hard to get right torque instantly. Next week back to the dyno to see the results

    Oh, also ordered new turbos because these what I have now are leaking oil through the seals.. But will go to make baseline tuning and we'll see what the changes are with the new turbo's They are garrett gt2860rs (discopotato) with ar .86 turbine housings.

    Car washed and idling again..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX7vOOlqkpE

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    What can you say? Just fantastic!
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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT


    Oh, also ordered new turbos because these what I have now are leaking oil through the seals.
    thats probably a result of running it without any boost hoses attached, not only will the turbo overspeed but the lack of intake pressure wont help the seals keep teh oil where it should be

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    fantastic work though the car looks great from all aspects, love the fact you kept the 1300cc badges

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    There where already some oil in the boost pipes before we started tuning, so seals where already broken. But good reason to upgrade little bit bigger turbo's now These are to small at the turbine side anyways..

    Thanks, maybe next summer I will get some miles on it

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    As there is no load against the turbos with no pipes attached, and equally very little airflow through the engine, they will not overspeed. A completely open pipe is not the same as say a small air leak.

    Some forms of racing actually use dump valve's to vent air whislt under full load to actually reduce impeller speed so they dont get into the surge, which can allow them to use much larger turbos without problems ( some drag racers mostly )
    9.85 @ 145mph 202mph standing mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss_c7fML3rw

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    seriously loving this car, congrats

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Thank you

    So, today was dynoday and engine itself works beatifully, no problems with leaking head gaskets anymore. Just some mysterious rpm signal lost at 5600rpm. Will need to try with another sensor if it helps. Last time in the dyno it worked without any problems all the way to redline 7200rpm.

    But results measured to 5600rpm and from rear wheels are 338hp and 458nm at 0,8bar of boost. With 11% loss engine power would be around 375hp (we didn't measure losses in these runs because of that rpm signal loss problem..)
    Last edited by Sultzi; 29-10-2015 at 21:25.

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    Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Excellent work this is a great thread well done

  40. #278
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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Thank you

    Problem solved with new Cherry made hall sensor.

    Car is now resting over winter, new turbos are arrived and also bmw propshaft too. Will update those in the spring first thing before driving more.

    Small soundcheck before putting to rest. Launch at 5000rpm and normal limiter at 7200rpm. Sounds pretty nice I think :P

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JikTc38-04Y

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    Hi. Update on this, i have now changed new turbos and have made 2-piece propshaft. Its now at the balancing Shop.

    Did try at the same time when i made the propshaft what would the car sound with only open downpipes -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndZL4v5Va0M

    Made me think again To add some cutouts to the exhaust
    Last edited by Sultzi; 01-04-2016 at 20:23.

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    Re: Cortina MK3 2.8TT

    Sounds good.

    Did you end up with larger turbos then?

    Shaun

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