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Thread: How to increase your oil pressure

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    Racer Decade Plus User RWD fords rule's Avatar

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    Wink How to increase your oil pressure

    How to increase your oil pump pressure with 2 washers and 20mins work.

    You can buy a new std oil pump for £15 -£20 and increase the spring pressure this way or spend £40 on a pump that is already high pressure, the choice is yours.

    Recently I had trouble with a new high pressure pump that was set far too high, 95psi from the factory, I had to strip the engine and fit a std relief spring with 2 washers to lower the pressure to 80psi cold.



    To modify a std pump, first drill a 5mm hole in the centre of the relier spring cap, then tap the hole out m6 as square to the pump as you can.

    This is done so that you can use a short m6 bolt to pull the relief spring out.






    Then use some appropriatly sized washers built up so that you can tighten the bolt and pull the spring cap with little effort.






    This method works very well, now get some m8 washers and grind down the outer diameter so that they fit into the spring cap with a little clearance.




    Two 1.6mm thick washers (3.2mm thick in total) are the max you will need, this will give you about 75 to 80psi cold oil pressure and 65 to 70psi fully warmed up which is good for 8000rpm.

    For reference the std pump has 55psi cold pressure and about 45psi fully warmed up.



    Next job is to weld in the 5mm hole you drilled in the spring cap, this can easily be done with either a tig or mig welder.
    The important thing is not to hold the spring cap in a vice because when you weld it the combination of the heat and the pressure from the vice would badly distort the spring cap.
    The only way to hold it without any risk of distortion is to use a wleders angle magnet, grind off some of the paint for a good earth to the spring cap and the welders earth clamp.

    When wleding keep the current pretty low to stop any weld from going down through the spring cap, practice on a piece of 2mm mild steel to get the settings right.
    When you have the welder settings correct it is a very easy job.

    Grind off the excess weld and it is finnished.






    Take the pump apart, remove the 3 rotor housing bolts, the rotors and the take the relief valve out with a magnet.
    Clean everything off with petrol and rebuild with plenty of oil.
    Fit the two washers into the spring cap. Then carefully tap the spring cap home using a smear of thread lock to help the cap seal into place.
    The two washers will compress the spring a little further giving you the increased maximum oil pressure.




    Job done.




    If you want to check exactly how much oil pressure you will get in the engine, her is how to check it out with air pressure and a 0 to 100psi or more gauge.

    This is my contraption below, not the prettiest but it is a very handy tool to have.



    You have to pump air into the pressure side of the pump as shown here, then use a T piece for the air pressure gauge.
    I use a rubber hose connected to a normal air gun with trigger.

    I cut out a plate and welded in a steel pipe, used a small piece of rubber mudflap to seal the joint, it seals perfectly every time.





    Next you have to seal off both oil passages inside the pump so that the only place air can escape is out the relief valve.
    Before you seal it off, put some oil on the relief valve which can be seen at the bottom of the left oil passage inside the pump.





    Another pice of rubber mudflap to seal it off.





    A piece of 6mm mild steel to press against the rubber.





    Fit the outer rotor.





    Fit the end plate and tighten it up.





    Connect up the air line.





    Stand clear of the oil pickup hole because oil will spray out of it when you open the air line.




    Then simply read what the gauge says.

    Since air is much thinner than oil you should aim for the hot oil pressure setting,
    for example if the gauge says 70psi max air pressure when the oil pump is running in the car is will give about 80psi cold oil pressure and 70psi max when the oil is fully warmed up.

    Jason

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    As a good guide for car engines,
    8psi hot oil pressure for every 1000rpm is adequate for sustained use.

    so aim for:

    7500rpm = 60psi hot, (about 70psi cold pressure)

    8000rpm= 64psi hot, (about 75psi cold pressure)


    The std pinto pump is set to 45 to 50psi hot oil pressure.

    Always use a good guality mineral oil in old engines pinto, xflow, essex engines etc

    Valvoline VR1 20w 50 oil is my favourite, it works very well in the old ford engines.

    Jason

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    I just tap the steel cap further down the "bore" and sandwich a washer between the cap and the block.

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    Racer Decade Plus User RWD fords rule's Avatar

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVader View Post
    I just tap the steel cap further down the "bore" and sandwich a washer between the cap and the block.
    I tried that on an old pinto pump before and it didn't work, all of the pumps that I ever seen have a deep spring cap that cannot be pressed down any further into the pump, if only it was that simple.

    Jason
    Last edited by RWD fords rule; 20-03-2009 at 18:33.

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVader View Post
    sandwich a washer between the cap and the block.
    You must be thinking of a xflow oil pump mate, the pinto relief spring cap doesn't go next to the block, in a pinto engine the pickup pipe covers the spring cap off slightly.

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    good thread thanks for the info.

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVader View Post
    I just tap the steel cap further down the "bore" and sandwich a washer between the cap and the block.
    Looks like what Burtons' ?? do/have............
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails FT1055%20Oil%20Pump.jpg‎  

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by RWD fords rule View Post
    You must be thinking of a xflow oil pump mate, the pinto relief spring cap doesn't go next to the block, in a pinto engine the pickup pipe covers the spring cap off slightly.

    Yeah but ..................

    it could be done I don't like it, looks not too reliable, but hey...


    You'd be best to get the US style pumps with the center pin support, real hi volume and leave the alloy bodies for recycling
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pinto_pump-1.jpg‎  

    Pinto-Oil-Pump-1.jpg‎  

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    The US v8 Chevy guys spend a lot of time porting their oil pumps. See the attached photos.

    http://rushi.kapsi.fi/pics/d16z6/oilpump/cimg1124.jpg

    Seemingly it reduces the paricitic losses in the pump so it takes less power to deliver the same amount of oil. I have not looked too closely at a pinto pump lately but I wonder if there is any room for removing sharp edges and radiusing some corners.




    Rgds
    Tom

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    Racer Decade Plus User RWD fords rule's Avatar

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by RMinOZ View Post
    You'd be best to get the US style pumps with the center pin support, real hi volume and leave the alloy bodies for recycling
    Good info their RM

    Where can you buy those american high volume pumps?

    I always thought the pinto pumps alloy body was a bad idea, it wears out well before the rotors ever do.

    Jason

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    Racer Decade Plus User RWD fords rule's Avatar

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Group4_Mark2 View Post
    I have not looked too closely at a pinto pump lately but I wonder if there is any room for removing sharp edges and radiusing some corners.

    Rgds
    Tom
    I was also looking at how the americans port out their pumps, it is just like port flowing a cylinderhead really, removing any sharp edges and giving a nice big radius into all the oil channels.
    Doing this brings up you flow at all revs which in turn increases your oil pressure from tickover right up to when the relief valve opens, and they also add a few washers to shim up the relief valve and get more maximum oil pressure.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMqBV...e=channel_pageHere is a video of the porting process on a chevy LS1 oil pump..


    Unfortunately the pinto pump cannot be ported out, it is just too hard to reach even with a dremel, also there isn't many areas that could be improved, not that the pump is well designed, there just isn't enough material there, like most oil pumps it isn't anywhere near an optimum design.

    Jason

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    in a similar vein, on bmw m10 and s14 engines i spend a considerable amount of time porting oil ways and radiusing where the various drilling meet with an offset, the result is an increase in oil pressure even on a std releif valve, the reason for that i beleieve being the releif valve is feed remotely and the increase in oil flow and pressure through my porting work means the valve would actually need a stiffer spring just to maintain std pressure

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    Racer Decade Plus User RWD fords rule's Avatar

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    After some more thought I had another look at a std pinto pump, I was wrong there is plenty of room for improvement if you are careful you can use small carbide cutters with a long shank.

    Here are the primary flow restrictions in the std pinto pump.



    Std suction side inlet





    Std pressure side inlet






    Std pressure side outlet






    Modified suction side inlet
    The oil flows anticlockwise when viewed from this side, so you should port the outlet
    more towards the left hand side of the hole as you can see below







    Modified pressure side inlet






    Modified fully round pressure side outlet






    Pressure side inlet into block which is fully round as std






    Std pump pressure side outlet verses modified pump outlet






    Std pump housing and rotors

    Suction side on left, pressure side on right.






    If you closely study the path of the rotors you can carefully modify the suction side further by adding two small grooves to the centre bridge to increase oil flow and reduce wear over the bridge because of the increased oil flow (grooves shown in blue below)








    That is about all the areas that can be modified, I wouldn't touch the pressure side of the bridge, by doing so you could easily loose oil pressure and flow, so modify the suction side of the bridge only.
    There is loads of meet in the std pump for porting, just don't go too crazy lol.


    Get porting

    Jason
    Last edited by RWD fords rule; 21-03-2009 at 19:29.

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Interesting how the std pump has got a sort of egg shape outlet hole and the block has a round hole, maybe ford was trying to cut down the oil flow at low rpm, and lower the oil pressure in the engine, who knows why the hole in the pump isn't round?

    I am going to see how much more oil per minute my modified pump flows compared to a std pump, it will be very interesting to see the results.


    I will use a normal cord drill to turn the pump at a constant speed, use a std pickup pipe in a can of oil and an adaptor plate to direct the pumped oil into another can of oil.

    Either that or I will fit the pumps in a std pinto bottom end, throw on a sump and see how much more oil pressure it gives at slow and high speed.

    Will post the results when I'm finnished.

    Jason
    Last edited by RWD fords rule; 21-03-2009 at 19:47.

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by RWD fords rule View Post
    Interesting how the std pump has got a sort of egg shape outlet hole and the block has a round hole, maybe ford was trying to cut down the oil flow at low rpm, and lower the oil pressure in the engine, who knows why the hole in the pump isn't round?


    Jason

    that's because of location of casting wall on other side.

    .........by the way, .....are u doing this around Grahams place........looks like it............with all the crap in back ground
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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by RMinOZ View Post
    .........by the way, .....are u doing this around Grahams place........looks like it............with all the crap in back ground
    No Roger, everyone in the UK has crap lying around ...

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by RWD fords rule View Post

    Where can you buy those american high volume pumps?

    Mellings

    Part#: M86B


    http://www.streetperformance.com/m/c...-oil-pump.html
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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Miniliteman View Post
    No Roger, everyone in the UK has crap lying around ...
    Loads of crap lying around in Ireland too

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by RMinOZ View Post
    .........by the way, .....are u doing this around Grahams place........looks like it............with all the crap in back ground
    Yeah my workshop could do with a cleanup alright, anything I am building I normally do in a garden shed, so the workshop gets a bit messy.


    Those melling pumps look good, summit racing sells them for $74, I bet they weigh a ton for delivery though.

    Those melling pinto pumps all say they are not high volume though, are you sure they have the extra capacity and the rotor shaft support from both sides?

    Jason

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Modified end plate with grooves to reduce parasitic losses, This might also act as lubrication channels to help keep the rotors oiled.





    The blue lines on the end plate indicate where the bridge is located in the alloy pump body, do not grind past those lines.
    The suction side is on the left and pressure side on right.
    You can see wear marks where the rotor was being pressed hard into the end plate on the pressure side.

    I ground out the grooves no deeper than 1mm.




    CLearances


    The std endfloat for both rotors is: 0.001" to 0.004"

    I would use a tolerence of 0.0005" to 0.001" instead, you can use some fine sand paper on a flat surface to rub a few thousands of an inch off the pump body quite easily, this tighter clearance will give better oil flow and pressure.

    Measure this by placing a straight edge across the pump body and use feeler gauges to measure the gap between the rotor and straight edge.


    The clearance between the outer rotor and pump body should be: 0.006" to 0.012"


    Clearance between the two rotors should be 0.002" to 0.008"



    All of the pumps with an alloy body wear quite badly between outer rotor and pump body.
    I think it would be very beneficial to add a small oiling groove across this area to increase the oil supply, an anti clockwise spiral shape might work well, this would reduce pump body and rotor wear.
    It would act much like the small oiling groove in a piston pin tunnel which stops the pin from picking up in the piston.


    Jason
    Last edited by RWD fords rule; 22-03-2009 at 19:24.

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    It will be interesting to see how the pump performs after all these modifications. A difficult thing to measure would be the torque needed to drive the pump which should also be reduced releasing a bit of hidden power in the engine.

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    Racer Decade Plus User RWD fords rule's Avatar

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Group4_Mark2 View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the pump performs after all these modifications. A difficult thing to measure would be the torque needed to drive the pump which should also be reduced releasing a bit of hidden power in the engine.
    Yeah it will be good to see the results, I also have an old high volume pump here so I can test the oil flow of that pump aswel.

    Comparing the std pumps flow against the modified pump and also the high volume pump.

    The high volume pump is said to flow 23% more than the std pump.

    Although the high volume pump uses the exact same std rotor housing, I calculated its rotors are 22% taller than stock.

    I doubt the high volume pump flows 22% more oil since it has the exact same inlet and outlet oil passages which will restrict the oil flow more than the std pump with its taller rotors trying to flow 22% more oil through the same pump housing.

    Jason

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Hi.
    I´m going to upgrade my brand new X-flow (Kent) oilpump to give some more pressure, like +1 bar more (14,5 PSI).

    Some home garage tuners just put extra shim to push relief spring deeper to increase oilpressure.
    But there´s also a relief valve under cone shaped spring which opens when pressure gets too high
    causing circulation problems in tuned pump so this over-pressure valve also needs some modifications?

    So my questions are:
    - How this modification has to be done properly?
    - How thick shim is adequate for upgrading? (for road use with stage 3 tune)
    - What modifications this over-pressure valve is going to need and how?
    - does this cause problems wits crankshaft seals etc.?
    Last edited by The W; 20-04-2010 at 07:00.

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    I haven't modified a xflow pump before but I know it is a very simple modification, remove the spring cap and add a washer to increase the pressure on the release valve, it should be very safe to add 1 washer 1.5mm thick or so, if its not enough take out the pump its an easy job and fit a thicker shim.

    As far as I am aware there is no need to modify anything else in the pump to increase the pressure.

    Aim for 75-80psi cold oil pressure with 20w 50 oil, this will reduce to about 65psi hot oil pressure, don't go above 85psi cold oil pressure and there will be no problem with blowing out seals or anything else.
    Last edited by RWD fords rule; 21-04-2010 at 11:58.

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Is there this kind of over-pressure valve in factory made hi-pressure oilpumps?
    Some told me that there is not. So if pressure gets too high a crankshaft seal
    or next weakest link will pop out ?
    What is regular (std) oilpump pressure? (for a new pump?) If I put 1,5 mm washer in my new
    std oilpump what is that 75-80psi expected pressure?
    Last edited by The W; 23-04-2010 at 08:35.

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    too higher oil pressure wont blow out a crank seal, they are not pressurized, but going to high does strain drive gears timing chains etc, as well as potienitally erroding crank bearings, blowing out oil filter seals gertting the hot hotter than needs be as well as simply sapping power.

    factory high pressure pumps wil be just as jason described, they are just a std pump with either a shim under the spring or a stiffer spring in them.

    it has also to be said that turning a pump into a high pressure one wil do nothing to increase oil pressure at idle/low speeds when the oils hot.

    people go mad over oil pressure you need enough to do the job and thats all, i cant think of any engine which wont be happy on 60psi pressure on hot oil
    Last edited by Graham; 23-04-2010 at 08:49.

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    I agree 60psi hot oil prressure is more than enough, more oil flow and that max pressure is what you really want, a high volume pump will force more oil through the engine until the release valve opens at the max oil pressure setting, higher volume pumps will send more oil through the engine from tickover up until the pressure release valve opens at its set maximum pressure.

    That higher oil flow at low rpm will show up as more pressure because the high volume pump is forcing more oil throught the engine, at high rpm when the release valve is open if both the std voulme and high volume pumps were set to the same pressure both pumps will be sending the exact same amount of oil through the engine,
    however the high volume pump will be sending a lot more oil through the release valve passage, this gives a useful reserve of oil flow so if a bearing starts to wear more oil will automatically be sent to that bearing, to a point max pressure would not be changed at all but the bearing wear would show up as lower oil pressure at idle.

    High volume pumps are only really necessary for competition engines, I use them on engines that need an oil cooler but its not essential, I would much sooner loose 1 or 2 bhp and have the higher oil flow.

    Regards
    Jason

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    so jason did you ever get any results?

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Didn't get a chance to try it out, I came to the conclusion that the best way to "flow test" the pump would be to see how much of a difference there would be in an engine at idle, the higher the flow the more pressure at idle and all the way up to the same max pressure setting on the relief valve.

    Tbh I think it is best to use a high volume pump in a fast road or race/rally engine, the end plate is a much better material and does not suffer from wear as the std pump end plates do, they are too soft for my liking and there is a nasty sharp edge on the end of the rotor as std.


    I beleive time may be best spent tear dropping the crank, after that the sandwich plate which are restrictive and using good -10an fittings for the cooler if using one, and maybe a small bit of porting on the inlet and outlet of the pump, in no particular order.

    One thing I haven't looked at yet is possibly removing the sharp edges at some of the pressure side turns in the block, which might be possible, I beleive the sharp corners are one of the main restrictions in the system if not the biggest restriction, will be looking into that soon, upgrading Enda's 175bhp rally engine at the moment

    Something i did which I would do to any pinto engine is to tear drop the centre and rear cam bearings, about 10 to 15mm long in the same direction as the cam turns, then the cam will then draw oil out and a lot more oil should arrive at the top of the bearing.

    Btw my dad rebuilt Enda's t9 gearbox a few days ago and the tear dropping of the gears is working very well, no wear whatsoever on the main shaft or any of the gears, tear dropping is a great mod for any bearing.
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

  34. #31
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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    One thing I haven't looked at yet is possibly removing the sharp edges at some of the pressure side turns in the block, which might be possible, I beleive the sharp corners are one of the main restrictions in the system if not the biggest restriction, will be looking into that soon, upgrading Enda's 175bhp rally engine at the moment
    i havnt looked into that on a pinto either but i have on a bmw block, and it paid dividends on that,

    theres not much you can do to improve the junction between the main oil gallery and main bearing feeds except run a drill or reamer down them to open them out

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Hello, has actually anybody uprated a XFlow pump? Is it correct, that you only have to remove the cover of the spring (red arrow), put in a washer and push in the cover again?

    Regards, Dominik.


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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Yes, I've done it recently and it defintely works.

    I did it a slightly dirtier way by tapping the spring cover slightly down the bore and gluing a washer to its face to stop it pushing back out.
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    Bodger Dominik2's Avatar

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by exboyracer View Post
    I did it a slightly dirtier way by tapping the spring cover slightly down the bore and gluing a washer to its face to stop it pushing back out.
    Hmmm, I like it dirty That's a good idea! I think a "distance plate" with a little ledge (correct expression?) of the cover flange height made on the lathe would be perfect...

    Can you confirm the previous mentioned 1,5mm of the spring pre-loading?
    Last edited by Dominik2; 17-03-2011 at 15:27.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Yes 1.5 mm raises the oil pressure to around 60-70 psi hot, which is plenty.
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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Burton xflow uprating kit from the Good Old Days

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    Racer Decade Plus User RWD fords rule's Avatar

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    I have tested the max oil pressure with uprated relief springs for the pinto, they give very inconsistant max oil pressure depending on the uprated spring you use, so I prefer to use a certain amount of shimming under the std spring, that is much more consistant.

    With the xflow pump it looks like removing the spring cap and fitting a washer will do the job fine, or you could turn down a deeper steel cap to press in the instead of the std one, fitting a washer is more practical though, takes less time to make it fit.

    Back 20 odd years ago my dad had a look at a high pressure xflow pump, he compared it to a std one he had and the only difference he could see was a washer under the spring cap, nothing else.
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    I just knock the spring caps on both the xflow and pinto pumps down the thinkness of a stainless 8mm washer. Never had problems

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    You cannot do that to any of the pinto pumps i have ever seen, there is a step in the casting that stops you pressing the cap down any further, with the cap sitting just below the surface the of the pump the cap sits right up against the step, so it cannot be pressed down, you would have to deform the steel cap with a lot of pressure to move it at all, and imho I think that would be a bad idea.

    Her is a X section through std pinto pump to show you what I mean with the cap sitting right up against the step, it is a little hard to see the step as its not a great pic but it is there.








    I don't know what make of oil pump you are able to push the cap down further into but i have never seen one

    Regards
    Jason
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: How to increase your oil pressure

    Just a bit of advice, i'm replacing the spring in my pump and just wan to see what is the most effective way of removing the current plug from the pump?

    Many thanks
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