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Thread: Escort Sigma 1600 Race Car

  1. #361
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    It's a true chimney. Big enough for the Santa to pop by
    The whole exhaust pipe looks like a huge overkill in this one but if it works I don't mind. Would rather look at a smaller oval shaped taipape tough. Like I used to have.
    Last edited by Roadsport; 12-06-2010 at 12:32.

  2. #362
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    Sorting the issues.

    Some update.

    Things are looking up again. As I told earlier the wiring problem is sorted as is the propeller shaft issue.
    I now have an evolution 2 cam belt tensioner. Older style in the matter of fact. Which I test fitted on a project engine today. Fits nicely and I'm quite happy with the lining too. It is only a mm or so off. I hope it'll do.
    I have to say Thank you for Mr. Owlcastle for providing me the back plate for the tensioner pulley. And after going trough the INA cataloque for hours I finally found a tensioner pulley I was happy with. And it even came with the right logo on it
    Can't see it in the pics though.





  3. #363
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    Re: Sorting the issues.

    Glad to be of help, I hope it roars!

    Ritchie

  4. #364
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    Re: Sorting the issues.

    Let's hope the tensioner pulley stays silent this time around though.

  5. #365
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    Re: Sorting the issues.

    Changed the tensioner, water pump and the cam belt today. Did not realise to take pics though.
    Need to check the timing again on saturday and do a little modification to the front cam belt cover.

  6. #366
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    Re: Sorting the issues.

    That look to be a super solution to the cam belt tensioner... what's it off of ?

  7. #367
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    Re: Sorting the issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    That look to be a super solution to the cam belt tensioner... what's it off of ?
    It is a Cosworth tensioner pulley. Mounted "face down" for better alignement on a bespoke back plate.
    If you think of doing one you propably should get a Reyland billet pulley for Cosworth YB. I found out too late.. as usual... I had allready purchased the more expensive OE item. Not sure are the dimensions 100% identical though. So be warned.
    I was told there has been some issues with the OE pulleys one can avoid with the Reyland pulley.
    Or by modifying the OE unit.


  8. #368
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Sorting the issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    That look to be a super solution to the cam belt tensioner... what's it off of ?
    And to be fair and not to take the credit, It's not my idea. I ripped it off from Mr. Owlcastle who posted pics of hes tensioner further back in this thread. He supplied me he's spare back plate.

  9. #369
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    Re: Sorting the issues.

    I remember him offering the plate . My project has stalled at the moment.. so gathering info.

  10. #370
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    Re: Sorting the issues.

    Yes he did. But back then I did not know I'd need it...live and learn I guess.
    Why stalled?

  11. #371
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Sorting the issues.

    Got some work done on the car today. Now it's basically ready again for the mapping.
    I modified and fitted the timing belt tensioner today. The pulley did not fit under the front belt cover so I made a hole in the cover for the tensioner bolt head to come trough. Now the cover fits and I can easily check that the bolt has not come loose.
    We've also been working on an air box for the engine.
    Today I got to trial fit it and it seems to do the job. Just needs a coat of paint and an alloy plate lid. Now I finally can have the air filter in the engine. And a place for the IAT sensor.

  12. #372
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Sorting the issues.

    Here are the pics. Hoping to find a carbon fiber plate to make the lid for the air box.
    The wrinkle finish coating has not cured yet so could not bolt it on yet.













    Last edited by Roadsport; 20-06-2010 at 17:03.

  13. #373
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Keep at it you know it will be all be worth it in the end when you got a silly big grin on your face while driving it

  14. #374
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Thanks mate. I'll book a new mapping sesson tomorrow. Hope nothing fails this time and I do not need to cancell on the rr session. I feel confident though.

  15. #375
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Made some progress with the air box today. Re-did the coating. The old make shift wrinkle finish did not cure as hard as I would have liked so I cleaned it and re-sprayed with VHT wrikle finish. I was a bit nervous doing it since its oly meant to used for metals.
    Also orderd a carbon fibre plate and cut out a lid for the box. Now I only need brackets for the lid and some holes for the the screws.
    This needs to go on the engine this weekend. I'm booked for the rollers next tuesday.






  16. #376
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Worked on the car yesterday. Got everything back together and and installed the new air box. Everything went smoothly the box fitted nicely alltough was a nightmare to install. Everything went smootly untill we started engine that is.
    The same worrying whining sound why I decided change the tensioner pulley in the first place was still there!!!
    I'm clueless. I've changed the tensioner, wtr pump, alternator belt and the timing belt. I've cheked the belt and pulley alingnements. I loosened up the timing belt to the point I still see safe to see wheter it was too tight and made that sound. Checked the oil pump and the drive belt no sound or rubbing there. I've Driven the engine without the alternator belt. The sound is there no matter what I do. The good news is the new timing belt tensioner does not drive the belt off the pulley.
    I'll order up a competition cam belt to see if the valve spring tension and steep ramps of the cams are too much for the OE belt. I'll also try and install the belt even looser to see if it helps. I can borrow a digital belt tension gauge from work
    But for now all this equals to another missed roller session, another missed race.

    Has anyone got a propper Pinto for sale?
    Anyway here's the pics of the airbox fitted. Turned out nice if you don't mind me saying. And the reduction in the induction noise was dramating.
    So much for the serviseable engine though.






  17. #377
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Great to see that box there , I shudder when I see cars running open trumpets . The whining.. could it be the dry sump? Or the alternator?

    My project has stalled due to me finishing some friends/customers projects to get some money in! And me and my engine tuner mate taking holidays at different times... And then discovering a valve to bucket clearance issue . Shoulda took up Golf...

  18. #378
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    I have run the engine without the auxiliary belt eliminating the alternator and the water pump. The whining was still there.
    Now the dry sump pump. How could I make sure its not the pump? Dare I run the engine briefly without a oil pump drive belt? I have checked that the drive belt does not scrub and I've listened the pump with a stethoscope and it does not seem to come from the pump.
    With the stethoscope the sound seems to be loudest from the tensioner pulley. But the belt could resonate to the the pulley making it seem like the pulley makes the sound.

  19. #379
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!


    Dare I run the engine briefly without a oil pump drive belt?
    how about doiing it whilst spinning the pump with a drill

  20. #380
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Good point Graham. That would work!
    I allready contacted Titans and they offered to check the pump asap if I come to the conclusion that it is the pump that makes the sound.

    First ill measure the tightness of the belt. I took a reading of the standard Sigma engine and the gauge reading was 45-47. I'll mesure my belts tightness and lower it down to the original spec. If the sound is not gone I'll try to spin the pump with axiliary power. If theres no improvement I'll try a tougher competition belt as a last resort since that feels to be the most far fetched solution.

    If these tricks dont do the job I.... I'll....think of something else.
    Last edited by Roadsport; 29-06-2010 at 18:12.

  21. #381
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Used this kind of device to measure the belt tightness.


  22. #382
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    I loosened the cam belt today again. The result was the sound was gone when the engine was cold but soon started again once the engine was hot. I believe it is the cam belt tensioner making the sound under increased stress when hot.
    The belt tightened quite a bit when heating up. I dont dare to loosen it anymore or I'm afraid it'll slip when cold. I can test my theory with the original automatic tensioner. Of course that is not the answer to my problem since the automatic tensioner is unreliable in competition use.
    But It'll show me if im on a to something here. Maybe I could use a very stiff semi automatic pulley? This would give under increased pressure and not tighten the belt to the point where the tensioner pulley bearing starts to make a noise. It sound a bit odd to me that a tensioner bearing cant take the tension. We'll see when I'll try the originat item.

  23. #383
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    OK. So I tried the OE automatic tensioner and the sound was gone. No noticable whining that I heard of.The belt behaved fine all the way up to 7000rpm's too.
    I turned the engine off and to my horror I noticed the belt had slipped by half a tooth. The belt got up from its groove and the teeth stood on the tob of the pulleys teeth. It seems no damage has occured yet. I counted four compression strokes to a revolution. So seems ok. Phew... won't be running the engine again with the automatic or even semi automatic trensioner again.

    I now ordered the billet version of the cossy pulley and the Piper Cams competition cam belt. If the noise is still there, as I suspect it will, I'll let ït be and ignore it.
    I'll just keep my eye on it if it gets worse
    Last edited by Roadsport; 13-07-2010 at 20:20.

  24. #384
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    If you spin the cam tensioner on its own does it make a noise? Are you sure it is not fouling the backplate or some othe sily thing. I know my pulley was touching a bolt head very slightly, enough to make a horrible noise. It does look bigger daimeter than the normal size.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadsport View Post
    OK. So I tried the OE automatic tensioner and the sound was gone. No noticable whining that I heard of.The belt behaved fine all the way up to 7000rpm's too.
    I turned the engine off and to my horror I noticed the belt had slipped by half a tooth. The belt got up from its groove and the teeth stood on the tob of the pulleys teeth. It seems no damage has occured yet. I counted four compression strokes to a revolution. So seems ok. Phew... won't be running the engine again with the automatic or even semi automatic trensioner again.

    I now ordered the billet version of the cossy pulley and the Piper Cams competition cam belt. If the noise is still there, as I suspect it will, I'll let ït be and ignore it.
    I'll just keep my eye on it if it gets worse

  25. #385
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    The audi tensioner was stiff and as good as new no noises what so ever when I spinned it but this cossy one spins almost too well on its own and maybe a tiny noise can be heard from it. Cant really be sure though the sound was so faint.
    The original pulley is 62mm in diameter and the cossy and the audi are 72mm.But they aren't touching anything. And the belt is not rubbing against anything anymore. I marked with white paint and it has not rubbed off.
    Last edited by Roadsport; 13-07-2010 at 21:15.

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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    I suppose with the engine being all alloy there is greater scope for expansion as it heats , thus changing the belt tension? Maybe that's why Ford used a spring loaded tensioner . When you say it slipped by half a tooth , that's terrifying!

  27. #387
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Yes the belt slipping gave me a proper scare too. And I belive you are right on the all alloy engine expanding alot too. Friend of mine had a similar problem with the alloy head Pinto. Only he snapped his cam belt.
    I've been told the belt slip is a common problem with the Sunbeam Lotus. They have to turn the engine off with the clutch and high gear.
    I rather choose to go with the fixed tensioner and listen to whatever sound it makes. Just need to keep close eye on any sgns of wear in the belt and tensioner bearing. And leave some room to expand in the belt.

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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    would it be possible to say put 2 marks on the tensioner , or 2 adjustable stops , so that on Race day morning you run the engine for say 10 mins to warm it in the "tight" setting , then slacken the tensioner to the "loose" setting?

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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Actually that seems full of complication . What do other all alloy engines used in competition use ? Like the alloy blocked BDA , the Honda TypeRs etc ?

  30. #390
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    The Honda engines use a hydraulic tensioner which (in theory) will expand to increase belt tension but won't contact, but in practice there have been cases of loss of hydraulic failure and belt slippage, so many people have gone to a manual tensioner.
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  31. #391
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    This would alter the engine timing. Loosening the belt means I need to time the engine again or loose some power. With a high compression engine even the slightest change in timing could mean a loss of significant ammount of power.
    I believe I'll leave the belt "too loose to race cold". Meaning I'll have to warm up the engine before race start and avoid cold idle.
    BDA uses a fixed tensioner.

  32. #392
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    iirc on BDA's the belt on a BDA always whinned like hell.

    when we used to put belts on cvh's we always fitted them and ran them very briefly before retensioning the belt because belt tension would drop off considerably as soon as they were started, infact it was only after we started doing that we realised thats exactly what the ford dealer next door did
    Last edited by Graham; 18-07-2010 at 11:41.

  33. #393
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Rain them? I don know what that means Graham?
    And it may very well be that this whinig noise is "normal" to this engine or engine with my spec / set up. I even consider it very possible I'm all nervous for nothing.

  34. #394
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)


    Rain them? I don know what that means Graham?
    sorry a typo on my behave, i ment ran the engine

  35. #395
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    OK. I see.
    Did the belt give a little before settling in?

  36. #396
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    yes quite a bit

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Quote Originally Posted by scott105e View Post
    hello can i see some pics of your sump mate
    Photos attached, hope this assists
    Click image for larger version Name:	PMP 028.jpg Views:	8 Size:	711.2 KB ID:	44036Click image for larger version Name:	Picture 090.jpg Views:	2 Size:	808.1 KB ID:	44037 Click image for larger version Name:	PMP 027.jpg Views:	3 Size:	732.3 KB ID:	44038Click image for larger version Name:	Picture 094.jpg Views:	2 Size:	891.2 KB ID:	44039Click image for larger version Name:	Picture 085.jpg Views:	3 Size:	763.1 KB ID:	44034Click image for larger version Name:	Picture 083.jpg Views:	4 Size:	748.6 KB ID:	44033
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Picture 012.jpg‎  


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  39. #398
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    iirc on BDA's the belt on a BDA always whinned like hell.
    I got some confirmation for the BDA's whinig too. So may well be as said earlier, the high spec all alloy engines with fixed tensioners may be prone to whine.

    I received the new belt and tensioner today. The belt feels no different to the hand than the Ford or Gates item. The only difference is the OE belt has a tiny groove in the tips of its teeth as the Piper and Gates items have plain round teeth.
    But the tensioner certainly feels more robust and solid than the OE YB tensioner that I used. No slack or movement in the bearing like the Audi and YB pulleys. And does not spin freely like the YB tensioner did.
    These are going in tomorrow and after that it is what it is.

    Last edited by Roadsport; 20-07-2010 at 18:50.

  40. #399
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!(but not whiny anymore)

    All done.
    The whinig, the sound resembling a broken power steering servo, is deminshed to a slight mechanical sound. I guess that is the sound it is supposed to make
    Ready for the rollers......again.....I hope now it is time for my luck to turn. I still have plenty of time to make it to the third meeting.

    Few quite pointless pics. I'll leave the cam belt cover off for the time beeing. I want to keep an eye on the pulley and the belt for a while.
    Still need to make a new strut brace and change that fule hose from rail to regulator to a longer one.







    For the evo two I think the engine will be moved 5cm to the left. It's quite crouded on the right side. Not so service friendly.
    Last edited by Roadsport; 22-07-2010 at 09:17.

  41. #400
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    Re: It's a loud boy !!

    Sorry, random question, but does the SE use the same bell housing pattern as all the other Ford engines (apart from the Duratec of course x-) )

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