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Thread: pinto std cam timing issue

  1. #1
    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    pinto std cam timing issue

    when i put a pinto back in my mk2 i couldn't get the can timing to align 100% after a belt change (didn't really look too close before removing tbh) - i wasn't that bothered as its a std pinto thats probably been to the moon and back.
    however.....
    now that i have done a few miles it does seem a bit flat on the 1st choke - all noise no go - although it picks up noticeably on the 2nd choke.
    its been a long time since i drove a pinto but it does seem less responsive than i remember. carb cleaned, accel pump working, timing set at 8 btdc with no vac to the sierra electronic dizzy.
    starts and runs nicely
    so the cam. i had another look today, when the cam marks align spot on the crank is at about 8deg Atdc so cam is retarded.
    its less than 1/2 a tooth i would say but winding it on a tooth would place the crank at about 16 Btdc if i moved it.
    so the question
    which is best ? cam on mark at 16btdc or 8 Atdc and why the variation ...................
    i know i can just try it but not had time as yet.

  2. #2
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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    one tooth on the cam is only 9.4 degrees crank, so i suspect if you put the crank at exactly tdc before fitting the belt your find you get the cam mark pretty close

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    i did have it at tdc using the std marks but cant get the cam correct , its slightly retarded at crank tdc.
    one tooth seems about 24 deg on the crank guessing from the 0 - 12deg spacing ?

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    crank pulley has 19 teeth, cam 38, so one tooth on crank is 18 degrees crank movement, one on cam only moves crank 9, so moving the cam one tooth shouldn't and throw the crank that far off
    Last edited by Graham; 10-06-2018 at 21:31.

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    timing set at 8 btdc with no vac to the sierra electronic dizzy.
    starts and runs nicely
    With a twin downdraft carb (like DGAV) you need vacuum advance from the distributor otherwise it looses power especially part throttle.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    crank pulley has 19 teeth, cam 38, so one tooth on crank is 18 degrees crank movement, one on cam only moves crank 9, so moving the cam one tooth shouldn't and throw the crank that far off
    need to think that through

    Quote Originally Posted by Miniliteman View Post
    With a twin downdraft carb (like DGAV) you need vacuum advance from the distributor otherwise it looses power especially part throttle.
    yes its connected when running, was removed to set
    Last edited by alladdin; 10-06-2018 at 22:05.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    one tooth on cam = 9.5 deg at cam, so if i turn cam 9.5 deg wont that turn crank 19 deg?

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    one tooth on cam = 9.5 deg at cam, so if i turn cam 9.5 deg wont that turn crank 19 deg?
    but you only need move the cam a tooth, from what you say you should be able move the cam a tooth, then with the cam mark lined up the crank should be at tdc give or take a fraction

  9. #9
    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    but the whole point is - it dont
    when i set the crank at tdc its about a third of a tooth out at the cam pointer. if i wind it so the cam is correct the crank is at 8 deg Atdc

    which is just under 1/2 a tooth now we have figures.
    if i then wind cam on a tooth it puts crank at about 16 btdc by eye or 11 by calc.
    so converting ..........
    if i set crank at tdc then the cam can be at 4 deg before mark (retarded ?)or 5.5 after (advanced?)

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    dont suppose a std cam will be that fussed but advanced is going to be preferable to retarded

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    the solution : fast road camshaft !!!!

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    or a vernier pulley!

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    Your also assuming the marks for TDC on the crank pulley are correct. As stated use a vernier pulley to correct.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    dont suppose a std cam will be that fussed but advanced is going to be preferable to retarded
    it wasnt jumped it from a 1/4 tooth retarded to 3/4 tooth advanced and ran fine. does seem a little better on bottom end but also more reluctant to rev - possibly - hard to tell ( it tops out at 5500 anyway ), i tried to do a back to back but after a spin it was too hot to play with ( seemed to run a little cooler on gauge ??)
    i am going to put it back and try it with the timing advanced to 10 or so static and see what its like. maybe just very tired

  15. #15
    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    pinto std cam timing issue

    Put it back and now back to advanced position again which seems best all round. One of them must be correct 😄
    Out of curiosity are the backplates with pointer different on 1.6 ?


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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    Out of curiosity are the backplates with pointer different on 1.6 ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    not as far as i know

  17. #17
    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    i was just pondering how they align it on the 1.6 given that crank/cam pulleys are the same, cam same, but block height different ? crank key ?

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    block height is different but so is length of cambelt so it works out the same

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    Dial gauge for true tdc and a vernier pulley

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    pinto std cam timing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by davemk1 View Post
    Dial gauge for true tdc and a vernier pulley
    OTT really for a worn out pinto with a standard cam 😄
    It's good enough now 👍 I think I was expecting too much.



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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    I think I was expecting too much.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    probably, what induction is it on? it never was worth reving a standard 2.0 beyond 5500

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    its a std dgav although i may need to fit some dcoe webers as i miss the smile that the slurping brings me

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    in that case there cant be too much wrong with it if it will pull to 5500

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    update ----------------i fitted another engine over the winter i will start another thread for that one

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    19degrees you mean?

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    Re: pinto std cam timing issue

    Im just doing one now ... all it come in for was a cambelt and oil seals. Not my week it was running like a pig so for starters it snapped nb 1 plug clean off in the head and it was smoking a tad when you revved it ... so i popped the head off the stem seals were like roak the exhaust guides are toast (injection) head so K lines in the exhausts 40 thou of the face as its never been skimmed.

    Cleaned all the gravel out the carb and generally cleaned it up. Blasted the inlet manifold cut both seats and valves in will lap them in once ive got the head back.... will find TDC on nb1 via dial gauge or half way house within the dwel and get near as i can with both inlet and exhaust lobes flat or as near to the dot as possible.

    Need to replace the points with a electronic jobbie might even mess with the bob weights and springs if i can remember how to do it and can find my box of springs and generally set it up best as ... can be any worse than it was lol ...

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    pinto std cam timing issue

    I noticed when fitting piper cam in new engine that the backplate could fall off back of key way. If that can happen on std cam ( doubt it but can't remember) then it would explain the pointer / tooth mismatch I had.


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