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Thread: Duratec conrods

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    Duratec conrods

    Anyone use these rods?

    4340 Forged Steel H-Beam Conrods Rod for Ford Duratec 2.0 / Mazda MZR 2.0 New https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F273360345938

    they look good quality in the pictures and they have to be an improvement over the standard ones?

    Anyone have any thoughts?

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Looking good and being good are two different things! Never used them but in the bike world they aren't held in high regard - the steel is of dubious origin and the bolts are suspect. Me, I prefer to use a named brand for critical use application!

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Don't waste your time and money looking at the ebay conrods, you can pickup Manley conrods at a very good price now

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Agree about bolts, I’d use proper arp ones.

    Never heard of Manley.
    https://www.rosssport.com/Brands/MAN...-MANLEY14001-4
    A quick google finds these, seems a sensible price.

    I’ve heard differering opinions on the ‘Chinese ebay rods’. Some people say they’re fine, some say they’d never touch them. Has anyone got any first hand experience? Thinking I might just build an engine With them and see how it goes. Not looking for the ultimate spec but they have to be better than the standard ones.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    The Manley are a good budget conrod they forged in China but machined in the USA. I have used them in a 260hp Duratec revved to 8500rpm without any problems. What spec engine are you building?

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    They also come with ARP2000 bolts

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    There was a big scandal a while back about the Chinese rods being sold with fake ARP's, plenty online about it.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Yea proper arp bolts only.

    I’d be looking to get about 240/250bhp from the engine. I think that’s the max without having to port the head? Not some crazy 300bhp+ beast. Yet!

    A comparison between standard and uprated:




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    Re: Duratec conrods

    The std Duratec rods scare me, i defo wouldnt be paying £145 for a set of steel rods and expecting quality, thats for sure!

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Quote Originally Posted by doughman View Post
    Anyone use these rods?

    4340 Forged Steel H-Beam Conrods Rod for Ford Duratec 2.0 / Mazda MZR 2.0 New https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F273360345938

    they look good quality in the pictures and they have to be an improvement over the standard ones?

    Anyone have any thoughts?
    i have used max speeding rods for the last 3 years in my rally car and they are brilliant! i even used the apr bolts they come with too. they are just as good as any rod imo.

    the car gets some serious stick too!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pSpMki1XNI

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    There was a big scandal a while back about the Chinese rods being sold with fake ARP's, plenty online about it.
    all hear say isn't it? any actual proof?

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Yes, ARP gave an official statement on it a few years back, its been plaguing their products for a long time. Plenty on the net about it, however, even with no proof im pretty sure i wouldn't take the chance, for the price you can buy decent rods with audit-able QA/QC these days for, its just not worth the hassle, it think i picked up a set of PEC rods for £400 or so, not exactly expensive.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Whats that based on? the fact that they havent failed? can you verify their quality through destructive testing? have you tested the tensile strength of the bolts?

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    i have rods made for me by farndon, they tell me they have seen quite a few broken chinese rods, most likely though there isnt a lot of "proof" out there in the public domain because most DIY engine builds do not stress the rods enough to break them, and if a professional engine builder has a blow up due to cheap rods you can bet your bottom dollar they are not going to come clean about it, and hurriedly get some proper rods!

    i have the same quandary right now, a customers budget which doesnt stretch to a set of arrow or farndon rods, but i dont really want to use chinese ones, with or without fake bolts! in my application a set of maxispeeding will probably be ok, but i think a good set of yb rods are a safer bet!

    trouble is luck plays a part, standard pinto rods are in trouble over 7,000 rpm even with uprated rod bolts, ive had customers break std pinto rods, but i also know of people revving bog standard pinto rods to 8K

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Theres a good thread on clubgti forum and some nasty photos of Maxspeeding rod failures, even the name sounds dodgy

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Generally Ebay/aliexpress rods + replacing the rod bolts with real ARPs is a real solution. But a lot of the Manleys and Eagle rods are so cheap and the ARP bolt so expensive you only end up saving like 10-20 per rod.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Theres a good thread on clubgti forum and some nasty photos of Maxspeeding rod failures, even the name sounds dodgy
    Do you have a link to that?

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Theres a good thread on clubgti forum and some nasty photos of Maxspeeding rod failures, even the name sounds dodgy
    I found this, but initially it doesn't seem to be about Maxpeeding?

    https://www.clubgti.com/forums/index...-again.274075/

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    ant remeber mate, i just googled it and all the articles came up about fake ARP's too, not worth the risk given the low cost of good proven rods these days.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    There is a lot of misinformation and hearsay about rods, unless someone comes up with irrefutable proof then take any comments with a pinch of salt.
    The fake ARP thing was years ago so (very) old news and hasn't happened since. The bolts in question didn't even have ARP stamped on them, genuine ARP bolts are supplied now. Any doubts it's simple, contact the UK ARP rep Nigel Atkinson.
    A lot of higher priced rods are made in China then re-badged (Farndon and Arrows aren't).
    Sometimes rod failures are blamed on the rod when that was the victim and not the cause.
    I got some Maxpeeding ones and couldn't fault them, I checked them every which way and found nothing wrong. Ran them at nearly 350 bhp 345 ft/lbs and 7k rpm in a turbo motor. They sell thousands and thousands of sets a year yet no-one reports failures...

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    The problem is that the Chinese rods arent backed up with proper testing and/or QC, so you can never guarantee them, they may be ok, maybe not, but without the proper engineering destructive testing andf QC on the steel no-one can know for sure, its the same for many things that are engineered in China, in my opinion an engine spec that requires steel rods is going to be fairly high spec, skimping on the cost of rods - especially when good ones can be bought for not much more money these days is a false economy, i certainly wouldnt pay for a high spec engine that used them. What also worries me is that the sales dept of the likes of Max Speeding offer the rods to wholesalers with any branding etched on them they ask for, PEC rods arent hugely expensive...so why skimp with questionable quality on a top spec engine?

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    ive got a couple of sets of steel rods at work, one set branded williams which were supplied by a lotus twin cam tuning expert, a set of maxispeeding rods and some farndon ones, visually the williams are poorest, they look to be a slightly rough casting and even by eye you can see the beams are not arrow straight, whilst that doesn't the rod has an alignment issue it doesnt give me confidence, the maxispeed rods look better, but where the beams are machined to make them H section there are visible machining marks that are clearly stress raisers, compare both sets to the farndon rods and you will see lots of little areas which are not as well finished.

    although until seeing this thread i had never heard of fake ARP bolts i did have concerns, so many other things are faked, i thought that its quite possible rod bolts could be also, if you can fake a bolt you can also fake the letters ARP on it!

    im doing a fairly warm engine for someone now, the budget doenst stretch to farndon rods, so i went for a set of yb rods and had the bigends re sized
    Last edited by Graham; 07-09-2018 at 07:31.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Why doesnt someone take a set into a Uni with materials testing facilities and do a tensile strength test and fatigue limit test on them and prove their quality?? without testing their quality cant really be verified.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    I always thought the benefit from these rods were that they were forged not cast? A little bit of clean up grinding maybe after but nothing visible after going through shot peening and tumbling?

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    They are - drop forged not cast.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Why doesnt someone take a set into a Uni with materials testing facilities and do a tensile strength test and fatigue limit test on them and prove their quality?? without testing their quality cant really be verified.
    Not worth the effort. The Manley and eagles rods are the same as the rest of the China rods, the only difference is you're more likely to get real ARP hardware and you at least get the illusion that more qc checks were performed. In reality con rods require such tight tolerances to even assemble that the Chinese have to be measuring the no name brand ones pretty consistently and they'd really have to go through more work than the savings are worth to intentionally forge the cheaper ones with lesser steel.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Not true at all, you can easily manufacture rods or anything else to the same tolerances using cheaper lower grade steel, I’ve done it myself several times, you can have two identical rods with same measurements with completely different fatigue limits and tensile strengths. The savings in cost would come from the volumes they produce.
    Last edited by Erikmex; 07-09-2018 at 11:41.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    The problem is that the Chinese rods arent backed up with proper testing and/or QC, so you can never guarantee them, they may be ok, maybe not, but without the proper engineering destructive testing andf QC on the steel no-one can know for sure, its the same for many things that are engineered in China, in my opinion an engine spec that requires steel rods is going to be fairly high spec, skimping on the cost of rods - especially when good ones can be bought for not much more money these days is a false economy, i certainly wouldnt pay for a high spec engine that used them. What also worries me is that the sales dept of the likes of Max Speeding offer the rods to wholesalers with any branding etched on them they ask for, PEC rods arent hugely expensive...so why skimp with questionable quality on a top spec engine?
    Do the maths: £145 compared to £485. How is that not hugely more expensive? It's 234% more.
    Owing to the design they're massively over specified anyhow in comparison to a std rod.
    Where do you think PEC get their rods made, here in the UK? America? Nope..... Do they come with 'proper testing and/or QC' ? No. Will they pay for your engine if it blows? No. So I don't know how they are any better. They've just gone through more hands, added on overheads, been subject to UK import duties so come out at more money. It helps when you understand HOW they are cheaper and it isn't because of quality.
    I once bought some PEC rods and found one to be 15g more than the other three (they swapped it with no quibble), Max rods are always within 2 - 3 g, they need checking, but they don't need balancing.
    You mention a thread with broken Maxpeeding rods, but oddly enough you can't find it.

    Again, forget the rod bolt thing, it's old news, years old.
    The average man on the street does not have the knowledge or the equipment to know what to look for or test for it. This means he pays what he thinks is an reasonable price for a rod 'to be safe' it does not mean he is getting getting a better product.
    Machining marks on rods. Yes I've seen them on the recesses along the length of the rod. Is this a weak point on a rod? No it isn't so it's irrelevant.
    I'm all for doing the job properly and paying the right money trust me, but sometimes, just sometimes there are little windows where you can save some £££ and end up with an equal product. Granted, it doesn't happen very often, but it does.
    I'm also very much for outing crap products, but also against internet witch hunts which have nothing solid to back them up.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Also not true, Pec rods are made in Europe with Swedish steel, so in fact, the Chinese rods will carry more Uk import duty than the PEC ones given EU free trade agreements. And yes they do come with proper QC certification, their quality and steel is auditable.

    You're arriving at a conclusion based on the fact that you think that the price differential is due to the location of manufacture and that there are fewer middle men, do you think perhaps that the lower cost of the Chinese rods could well be more to do with lower manufacturing costs and economies of scale? With higher volume production runs there is far more cost savings in using lower grade steel.

    The facts exist that even when worldwide QC processes and procedures are used, the Chinese are often picked up on with lower grade steel, its so common, i was myself involved involved in an event 10years ago whereby legs of an oil rig jack-up platform were cracking....a full and lengthy legal investigation concluded that the root cause was down the lower grade / quality steel, even though the spec, design and alleged supply was for a grade suitable.

    Its so so common with Chinese manufactured products, as i stated above there is absolutely no way you can prove the quality of these rods without carrying out some proper destructive testing, that my friend is a fact and removes all opinion.

    For the sake of £300 why even bother taking the unknown risk. False economy. The fake ARP bolts were around only 18months ago by the way.
    Last edited by Erikmex; 07-09-2018 at 12:39.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Pec rods aren't made in Europe at all, they are very good, but they come from the Far East, I know that for a fact. I don't see any quality certificates on their site, nor where their rods are made either. If they were made in Europe they'd be shouting it from the rooftops, oddly enough they aren't.
    You're missing my conclusion over why Max rods are cheaper, I just haven't spelled it out in big letters.
    An oil rig breaking 10 yrs ago has no relevance at all to a current day Max rod.
    The subject is 'Maxpeeding rods'.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    The subject is Chinese crap.

    PEC rods are made in Germany from Swedish steel, you can request QC certs from them, just send them an email, it seems you refuse to accept that sub standard and fake Chinese manufacture exists, and yet the irony is that i work with many Chinese Engineers who tell me it does, especially for machinery and engine parts, with respect, i work for a company owned by Chinese offshore oil Co. CNOOC, its mainly my colleagues from there that tell me all about the issue. Of course there is relevance in my experience noted above, sub standard steel was the issue, which is common across lots of industries and parts. If you're so adamant the quality is spot on, provide the evidence, test them!

    You're not a Max Speeding sales rep or distributor by any chance are you?

    https://ksmotorsport.co.za/connecting-rods/
    Last edited by Erikmex; 07-09-2018 at 13:09.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    No, the OP was asking about Maxpeeding rods.
    That link clearly reads "All Wossner Forged Con Rods are made in Germany" Which they are. PEC do their own range of rods (called PEC rods) which are about half as much as the Wossner ones.
    It also says "PEC rods manufactured from forgings originally produced in Sweden", which although I very much doubt is true isn't a very clear remark and where are they making these rods? They aren't saying...
    Although you had to go to an African site to find that? Try taking them to court for putting bullshit on their site! Oddly enough nothing on Pecs site, if they did they'd get the pants sued off them.

    I have no connection with Maxpeeding or PEC, I use both their products though.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Ahhh ok, so you dont trust a reputable company like PEC and Wossner who havent as far as im aware had any issues with quality but you do trust 'Mr Max Speeding' from China who will stamp the rods with any name you ask for, i see the logic lol!

    Its also on their own website about the original forgings being from Sweden, also the packaging and QC certs you get with them say where they are made, although not that you'd know given you build your engines with unknown Chinese knock offs. I think ulitmately the issue here is that you've penny pinched in an engine build by fitting cheapo Chinese rods and you're taking it personally as really you have an unknown unproven quantity in your engine, the only thing that will prove their quality is proper testing im afraid.

    lets just get something straight here, would you try and save £300 using Chinese stuff when building a £7000 ish 250hp Duratec?, dont be silly.
    Last edited by Erikmex; 07-09-2018 at 14:09.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Ahhh ok, so you dont trust a reputable company like PEC and Wossner who havent as far as im aware had any issues with quality but you do trust 'Mr Max Speeding' from China who will stamp the rods with any name you ask for, i see the logic lol!
    I never said that, you've just made it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Its also on their own website about the original forgings being from Sweden, also the packaging and QC certs you get with them say where they are made, although not that you'd know given you build your engines with unknown Chinese knock offs. I think ulitmately the issue here is that you've penny pinched in an engine build by fitting cheapo Chinese rods and you're taking it personally as really you have an unknown unproven quantity in your engine, the only thing that will prove their quality is proper testing im afraid.
    Show me where it is on their site. I have proved they work, so has the other guy in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    lets just get something straight here, would you try and save £300 using Chinese stuff when building a £7000 ish 250hp Duratec?, dont be silly.
    I'm qualified to tell a good rod from a bad one, £300 x 10 engines is £3k saved.
    I would put the decision in the hands of the customer, for my own builds? Yes I'd use them, I already have.

    We are however going round in circles, i've made my point. I'm out

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Work and last and safe are 3 very diff things, have you seen the other guys car? its a very very low budget car which doesnt exactly shine quality, we are talking about a 250hp Duratec...not exactly cheap.


    Ah so you're skimping on rods to increase profit over lots of engine builds, now its clear. If you think you can tell the fatigue limit and tensile strength of a forged component visually and with some measurements then im sorry but you're not qualified at all.

    To save £300 on a high spec 250hp engine in my opinion and that of many others is lunacy.

    do us a favour then and divulge your business name if theres nothing to hide??
    Last edited by Erikmex; 07-09-2018 at 16:59.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post

    To save £300 on a high spec 250hp engine in my opinion and that of many others is lunacy.
    Not wanting to put petrol on the fire but i must agree.

    I bought a duratec which had failed a rod (standard rod) for fitting purposes. The damage caused completely ruined the whole bottom end including holing the block and the head escaped by pure luck. For me the extra would be a no brainer the point of steel rods surely must be peace of mind.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Work and last and safe are 3 very diff things, have you seen the other guys car? its a very very low budget car which doesnt exactly shine quality, we are talking about a 250hp Duratec...not exactly cheap.


    Ah so you're skimping on rods to increase profit over lots of engine builds, now its clear. If you think you can tell the fatigue limit and tensile strength of a forged component visually and with some measurements then im sorry but you're not qualified at all.

    To save £300 on a high spec 250hp engine in my opinion and that of many others is lunacy.

    do us a favour then and divulge your business name if theres nothing to hide??
    You'd make a good politician, not only do you openly tell lies, but when confronted you just change the subject.
    For the umpteenth time, you're fitting Chinese rods if you use PEC, ZRP, Manley etc, so you're no better than anyone else.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Very good Mr Max Speeding sales rep. You’ve certainly proven your engineering knowledge lol ��

    Pec rods are not from China but even if they were, although they are cheap they’re not as cheap as these Max Speeding things. Dodgy rods, dodgy engine builder. Who’s changing the subject Bell end?
    Last edited by Erikmex; 07-09-2018 at 19:54.

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    Re: Duratec conrods

    Quote Originally Posted by wildo105e View Post
    Not wanting to put petrol on the fire but i must agree.

    I bought a duratec which had failed a rod (standard rod) for fitting purposes. The damage caused completely ruined the whole bottom end including holing the block and the head escaped by pure luck. For me the extra would be a no brainer the point of steel rods surely must be peace of mind.
    my engine build cost me £4500 (custom pistons were £700 alone and i hung them on 'cheap shitty chinese maxspeeding rods'). every time i use the car is pretty much lives on the 8,200rpm limiter. i have driven the car to germany and back to the nurburgring, when i use the car for a track event or rally the car is driven there and back and the engine has never let me down once, i change the oil every 1,500miles (serious over kill but it is cheap insurance compared to the engine) and the rods are still going strong. My friend uses them in his boosted clio (7.5K 350hp not a problem too) I don't know what erikmax problem is with max speeding rods but he has been bleating on about how crap these rods are for the last 3 or more years. maybe he is bitter about paying for 'quality' rods and handing out the extra money. Either way he gets boring in the end, i know what works because i had the guts to go out there and do it. Not because i slagged off something on the internet with no actual proof. BBBOOOORRRRIIIIIINNNNNGGGGGGGG.....

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