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Thread: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

  1. #1
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    Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    Hi folks,

    Some may have seen me enquiring about brakes in the General Banter section of this forum, i figured this would be the more appropriate location.
    Please, if any administrators disagree, feel free to delete either one of these threads.

    So my dilemma,

    I am building a fast road/occasional track day Mk1 escort here in Australia. I am doing some significant modifications, which here in Australia require being signed off by a registered automotive engineer (we call them VASS Signatories).

    I've engaged in a signatory who is guiding me through the process, but due to our road rules, we are only allowed to use brake calipers that have dust seals/boots.

    This is awkward, as on the advice of someone i thought who knew their escort stuff and legalities here in Oz....i pulled the trigger on some AP Monte Carlos and some 260mm discs.
    Beautiful brakes, but....well....no boots. A tear or two was perhaps shed.

    So comes the question:

    Can anyone recommend a good brake caliper for 13x6 inch wheels?
    I'll move the Monte Carlos on, and so i'm not restricted by budget. I've heard good things on APs, Alcon and Brembos, and mixed things on Wilwood Midilights and Hi-Spec.
    I'd rather get something good. Hit me with your suggestions.

    Cheers in advance folks,


    Siggy

  2. #2
    Mechanic

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    I got a set of compbrake b16 calipers and 2 piece disc’s with hawk pads,
    And cosworth rear discs and pads,

    They pass the mot brake test when cold but work a lot better hot, I’ve had alsorts of brakes on track cars / road cars over the years. These are the best I’ve had,

    The fit under standard rs 4 spokes, minilites ect, all my wheels are 13”

    But I do t know / don’t think they have a dust seal in them.

    I think a lot will come down to your budget. Also mine squeak around town, every track focused brake set up I’ve had has squeeked



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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    I got a set of compbrake b16 calipers and 2 piece disc’s with hawk pads,
    And cosworth rear discs and pads,

    They pass the mot brake test when cold but work a lot better hot, I’ve had alsorts of brakes on track cars / road cars over the years. These are the best I’ve had,

    The fit under standard rs 4 spokes, minilites ect, all my wheels are 13”

    But I do t know / don’t think they have a dust seal in them.

    I think a lot will come down to your budget. Also mine squeak around town, every track focused brake set up I’ve had has squeeked


    Thanks for the suggestion Warrior, i do appreciate it!

    Unfortunately the pne main point is that the caliper must have dust seals/boots to be road legal here in Australia.

    So the B16, if it does no ot have seals cannt be used.

    In regards to budget, for new calipers and discs id be willing to spend up to £2k - thats what the AP Monte Carlos are worth.

    Thanks

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    Buy a set of AP’s and pay a machine shop to turn some grooves in them and fit dust seals ?

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    Bodger

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    Hey mate

    Ive read that getting oem brakes are fair easier to engineer then aftermarket brakes. I cant remember where i read it but i believe AP or maybe even wilwood list a reason reason for not fitting dust seals, tolerances are very high etc. Perhaps could track down that and show your engineer and he might swing your way.

    Tbh id be heart broken to dropping all that cash (which is alot of AUD) and getting them and turned down. Can you return to where your brought them and swap for APs with dust seals? ?Have a look at this link, these have dust boots but unsure how they would go fitting under 13s

    https://www.apracing.com/product_det...4mm_discs.aspx

    be interested in how you get along as im also in Aust, although SA

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    Spanner Monkey

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    just my opinion on a solution put on a set of std brakes get your car tested/certified get home after and fit your montes logic and common sense would tell you they are much safer than std brakes with or without dust seals and when your next test is due refit the std brakes,i know its not very legit but could not imagine someone removing your brakes at the side of the road to check for dust seals.

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    @nursebetty


    The AP Site's description of the Radi-Cal monoblock calipers does state that they design and engineer their brakes to perform without the need for dust seals, but really doesnt mention specifics...sadly.
    To be signed off by a VASS signatory, the car has to abide by the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) and VSB 14. Whilst the ADR is a little vague it is VSB 14, Section LG "Brakes" 2.7.1 that states: "Caliper pistons must be fitted with dust seals".
    If i can find out from AP if the piston seal is designed to provide the same function of the dust boot (keep dust out), i could present that as an argument as the intent of the VSB is to ensure the prevention of ingress of contaminants and that the piston seal does this.
    Could be a little tough, but worth a try i guess.


    I should be able to reclaim my money for the calipers if i really have to. Those APs look great, but the listed brake disc size is 295mm...which i believe is about 30 mm too large.


    No matter how it goes, ill keep you all in the loop because it could be interesting to anyone else in the future whom wants to get a car signed off in Australia.







    @mick32


    Your proposition is tempting, and id certainly be most likely to resort to this if all else fails. Plus, Monte's do look rather old school and "stock". They dont have a crazy "Brembo" or "Wilwood" written on the side. You're right, that the cops wouldnt have the means to take a wheel off, pull the pads out and give it an inspection and would probably be reluctant....imagine if they did such a thing and the car was to have an accident shortly after and someone saying "well the brakes failed due to a cop who isnt a mechanic playing around with the pads."

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    Spanner Monkey

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    i have montes on my mk1 and trust me you would be hard pushed to find a better brake to fit under 13s .

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by mick32 View Post
    i have montes on my mk1 and trust me you would be hard pushed to find a better brake to fit under 13s .
    @mick32 , do you run it as a road car? Have you had to do anything differently like rebuild your calipers more often due to the lack of dust seals/boots?

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    Spanner Monkey

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    yes i run them in my road car,with ferrodo ds300 pads for the last 6ish years and never had a problem with them.

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by mick32 View Post
    yes i run them in my road car,with ferrodo ds300 pads for the last 6ish years and never had a problem with them.
    @mick32 thats awesome! I really do want to keep my Monte Carlos.....how does it work over there on Ireland/UK? Because the Monte packaging specifically states "not to be used on public highways" how did you get them approved?

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    ok i do not cover much milage every year less than 1k miles i have the means to look after my own maintance and fix anything that arises that also means i keep an eye on my brakes etc with regards your other question read my first comment on this thread.

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by mick32 View Post
    ok i do not cover much milage every year less than 1k miles i have the means to look after my own maintance and fix anything that arises that also means i keep an eye on my brakes etc with regards your other question read my first comment on this thread.
    @mick32 My intention is to have the car under club registration, as I'd be putting in about the same amount of miles as yourself.
    Ah yeah, its been a few days, your initial comment got melded in with all the others :P

    Thanks mate!

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    @Schaloupka

    A valid suggestion above to machine some grove in to fit the dust seals, although id be a little scared handing over expensive brakes to a shop just incase they f it up.

    Keeping it 13s makes things alot harder, Ive seen people use oem brembo, wrx calipers etc but all require 15s

    Have a look at this thread, he uses alcons which i dont think have dust boots but got it engineered

    http://www.classic-ford.org/cfp/tm.aspx?m=87664

    I swear i seen a vendor here offereing AP kits with/without dust seals as a bolt on option, youll find the AP calipers fit a range of disks so i guess its finding a caliper with dust seals that will fit your required rotor.

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by nursebetty View Post
    @Schaloupka

    A valid suggestion above to machine some grove in to fit the dust seals, although id be a little scared handing over expensive brakes to a shop just incase they f it up.

    Keeping it 13s makes things alot harder, Ive seen people use oem brembo, wrx calipers etc but all require 15s

    Have a look at this thread, he uses alcons which i dont think have dust boots but got it engineered

    http://www.classic-ford.org/cfp/tm.aspx?m=87664

    I swear i seen a vendor here offereing AP kits with/without dust seals as a bolt on option, youll find the AP calipers fit a range of disks so i guess its finding a caliper with dust seals that will fit your required rotor.
    @nursebetty Woah, machining calipers to fit dust seals???? I've got a few mates who could do that, but I'd have thought that to be super illegal, and instantly void all manufacturer warranties or support.
    I did contact the chap who used the Alcons in his build. Super nice guy, and he told me that at the time of getting the car engineered he had no idea about the dust seals. Basically he said the engineer took quick glance at the calipers and instantly saw how superior to anything stock they were and signed it off straight away based on common sense.

    I'm currently engaging with another engineer/signatory who has a soft spot for Escorts. Will see how he response when i tell him about the brakes

    Cheers,
    Siggy
    Last edited by Schaloupka; 20-09-2018 at 10:17.

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    Bodger

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by Schaloupka View Post
    @nursebetty Woah, machining calipers to fit dust seals???? I've got a few mates who could do that, but I'd have thought that to be super illegal, and instantly void all manufacturer warranties or support.
    I did contact the chap who used the Alcons in his build. Super nice guy, and he told me that at the time of getting the car engineered he had no idea about the dust seals. Basically he said the engineer took quick glance at the calipers and instantly saw how superior to anything stock they were and signed it off straight away based on common sense.

    I'm currently engaging with another engineer/signatory who has a soft spot for Escorts. Will see how he response when i tell him about the brakes

    Cheers,
    Siggy
    Any follow up on how you went with this mate?

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    What about ome r34 skyline or aluminum 4 pot hilux calipers

  18. #18
    Bodger

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    Re: Recommend the Best Brakes for 13 inch wheels

    There is a guy in South Aust who sells a skyline brake upgrade for the escort, uses the 4 spot nissan calipers, larger disk etc, adds 10mm to track also

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