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Thread: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Hi all,

    i am trial fitting my pinto with rs2000 mounts without gearbox being fitted as I am having the rad cut outs done at the body shop soon. So I don’t entirely know if it is correct as the box isn’t on. How ever the exhaust manifold is on so I know what the angle of the engine should be and it seems to be a lot lower at the flywheel end of the engine in the engine bay. Also seems to be twisted slightly over to the right at the rear, is this correct?




    thanks
    kris

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Level of engine



    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Sorry I am trial fitting it because I need to see if I have enough room for the battery tray to remain in the front with the carbs/manifold on, everyone I have spoken to have just said ‘you will have to try it and see if it fits’ it looks too close to me. If I need to get rid of it then it needs to be done at the body shop at the same time.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Spanner Monkey djaminhi's Avatar

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    I use to have a similar setup ; and retained the battery at the front. it was a smaller battery and tray tho, but Never had any issues starting.
    Also use gearbox spacers and you should be ok.
    Regards,
    Kevin

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmp View Post
    Sorry I am trial fitting it because I need to see if I have enough room for the battery tray to remain in the front with the carbs/manifold on, everyone I have spoken to have just said ‘you will have to try it and see if it fits’ it looks too close to me. If I need to get rid of it then it needs to be done at the body shop at the same time.

    Thanks
    Kris
    i will be doing same shortly, i have googled some pics of it done so i know it can be.

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    i will be doing same shortly, i have googled some pics of it done so i know it can be.

    You're welcome to take some measurements on mine if needed. Mk2 with Pinto on bike carbs. CF81 based.

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    Racer Decade Plus User Forest_rallying's Avatar

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    You can't really trial fit anything accurately unless you have got the gearbox mounted in the correct position. Modification to the exhaust manifold often needs doing as any two are never the same and it's position can never be relied on as to the angle the engine sits at. Pintos often tilt back when installed.

    Make sure you keep the clutch cable well clear of the ex manifold, some protective plumbers matting wrapped round it helps the situation with the heat.

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest_rallying View Post
    You can't really trial fit anything accurately unless you have got the gearbox mounted in the correct position. Modification to the exhaust manifold often needs doing as any two are never the same and it's position can never be relied on as to the angle the engine sits at. Pintos often tilt back when installed.

    Make sure you keep the clutch cable well clear of the ex manifold, some protective plumbers matting wrapped round it helps the situation with the heat.
    Great thankyou, I will put the type 9 on and see what happens, I think I can get away with cutting the corner off of the battery tray - rather than cutting the whole tray out.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Racer Decade Plus User wildo105e's Avatar

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    A normal pinto install will tip backwards it is usually dictated by the height of the transmission tunnel and thereby the gearbox. It will normally be very close to the bulkhead.
    The inlet manifolds normally account for this tilt backwards my injection one definitely does.
    Looking at the pic of the exhaust is the steering column touching? If so that will need to be fixed once you have the final engine position.
    Last edited by wildo105e; 18-10-2018 at 20:23.

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    Spanner Monkey djaminhi's Avatar

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Kris,

    You might want to check this out.

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...+in+mk2+escort
    Regards,
    Kevin

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Thanks for the link, have an rs2000 alloy bellhousing and have had the tail of the gearbox shortened so it fits in the original hole, also have alloy block spacer mounts.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    the engine mounts are handed, so swapping them round twists the engine in the bay

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    I think I have had enough of trying to do this install already. I fitted a vtec engine in my old mini and it seemed easier....


    After 3 nights of trying to get the gearbox to fit its most of the way in. I was adamant that the engine was twisted, looking down the line of the tunnel and it didn’t look right, how ever I have the small rs2000 engine mount on the long crossmember mount and the long one on the drivers side (short cross member mount side). I read that’s how they are meant to be. The type 9 gearbox wouldn’t go in tunnel so pushed it out with a scissor jack and commenced the first night of trying, no avail. I had the bell housing on the gearbox which I then found out was the hard way. So the Second night I took the alloy bell housing off and still can’t get the gearbox to go on. One of my mates suggested that the clutch may not be aligned but I knew it should be. Eyed it through and it looks perfect, tired again and it won’t go. Measured the clutch Spline and the input shaft and they should go. Nope. So got the scissor jack out against the chassis and twisted the engine over about an inch maybe more, now it looks good, still won’t go. I took the bell housing off again and looked at the input shaft and eyed it up, finally she went in after about 9 hours of trying. Put the bell housing on and a further 1.5 hours and she slotted in.

    How ever the gearbox doesn’t seem to want to go all the way in, seems about 10mm off the bell housing and I can’t push it in any more. Doing the bolts up gradually seem a bit dodgy as they are hard to do up so something can’t be right.

    I definitely should have trial fitted all this before putting the engine in, I just thought - it can’t be too bad, it can’t take me nearly 12 Hours to get it most of the way in, some people have done it easily.....

    Prob doesn’t help that the car isn’t very far off the floor and I am doing on my own laid on my back on my own

    Tomorrow I shall mostly be having a night off lol.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    you cant take the gearbox out of an rs2000 with the engine in unless you lower the crossmember first, so the reverse is true you wont be able to fit one without dropping the x member and thus lowering the engine

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    As Graham states, but take the steering wheel off as well. This will give you a bit more movement.
    Also, do you know what car your Type 9 came out of?
    I have an input shaft on my garage floor that I can measure on Saturday if you want to compare it. This was fitted in my Escort, but I replaced it for an uprated one with taller first gear.
    IMG_20180327_120345583~01.jpg
    Last edited by dt36; 27-10-2018 at 01:04.

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    you cant take the gearbox out of an rs2000 with the engine in unless you lower the crossmember first, so the reverse is true you wont be able to fit one without dropping the x member and thus lowering the engine
    Beg to differ but you can! I took my Pinto, with a T9 attached out of my RS2, with an engine crane, on my own & with car sitting on its wheels as it drove up to the garage and then about a year later it got a Zetec with RF alloy sump and same T9 back in via same procedure as above. There was loads of cursing, swearing and general bad language but it does go! Now, putting the RF SS exhaust manifold on with the Raceline water rail was another story! ! !

    Re the gearbox - it could be a V6 box with long nose that hasn't been cut down enough? When right they do slot together perfectly (when splines aligned!)
    Last edited by katana; 27-10-2018 at 08:50.

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    Racer Decade Plus User wildo105e's Avatar

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    Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    I think a v6 shaft sits proud of the bell housing face and Sierra level. I’ve always found shoving the whole lot under the car and lifting it in from underneath easiest. Especially on your own

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Gearbox changing on an Escort has never been easy with a T9 or Cortina box. I have a Pinto in the Rally car we are building and that's got a large tunnel and even with that there's no way to get the gearbox in unless the Pipercross back plate for the carbs is removed as the ears where the clips mounts the foam filter hits the bulkhead and it does n't allow the engine to tilt enough.

    You might be better to remove the clutch and see if it will fit then. You have either got too longer input shaft as already suggested or the spigot is n't aligned with the bearing.

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    Beg to differ but you can! I took my Pinto, with a T9 attached out of my RS2, with an engine crane, on my own
    i didnt say you couldnt do that, what i said is you cant take the gearbox out, i know you can take engine and box out together ive done it myself

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    i didnt say you couldnt do that, what i said is you cant take the gearbox out,
    I'll let you off this time then!

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Sorry guys I didn’t mean for it to turn into such a discussion, I am going to take the engine and box out again, trial fit the two together, then lower the crossmember and try again.

    Thanks for the information everyone, much appreciated.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    As already said, the input shaft should sit roughly level with the face of the bellhousing.
    If using a v6 and cutting the end off the input shaft level with the bh it doesn't leave much to fit in the nose bearing.
    Retroford do spacer plates at 8mm to fit between gb and bh. He recommended I use two then cut the shaft level and grind the tapered lead back on.
    Last edited by davemk1; 29-10-2018 at 22:56.

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Quote Originally Posted by davemk1 View Post
    As already said, the input shaft should sit roughly level with the face of the bellhousing.
    If using a v6 and cutting the end off the input shaft level with the bh it doesn't leave much to fit in the nose bearing.
    Retroford do spacer plates at 8mm to fit between gb and bh. He recommended I use two then cut the shaft level and grind the tapered lead back on.
    Last edited by davemk1; 29-10-2018 at 22:57.

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    The diesel type 9 input shaft is slightly longer than the petrol one, not as long as the v6 one

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    I have taken the engine back out, i measured the amount the input shaft needed to go into the bellhousing - when the bellhousing is bolted on the engine, measured the input shaft and it was perfect. Then I realised, where I had been putting the gearbox in and out of the bellhousing lots, I had caught it with the input shaft. It is a tight fit from gearbox to bell housing so I think the rough edges were stopping it go together. Filed it off, sanded it smooth and the bellhousing bolted on to the gearbox nicely, tried it on the engine and she went straight on 😎

    Haven’t put the clutch fork on to try, not that it shouldn’t go together but I will still test it to make sure. When I said in my previous reply that it wouldn’t go in by 10mm, I knew it was to do with the gearbox not fitting into bell housing but I didn’t know why it wouldn’t go, must have been the burr.

    Any way I am pleased, so now need to drop the cross member and trial it in the car.

    Thanks again for the advice, great team!

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay



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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    When people say that the 4 speed gearbox mount fits a type 9 when using alloy blocks from the original mount postions, are the bolt holes in the mount meant to line up? Tried it on mine and they don’t line up, am I meant to be elongating the holes?

    At the moment I only have a few mm between the alloy blocks and the gearbox in the tunnel too - maybe 5mm, is this enough to keep the gearbox from knocking the blocks?

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmp View Post
    When people say that the 4 speed gearbox mount fits a type 9 when using alloy blocks from the original mount postions, are the bolt holes in the mount meant to line up? Tried it on mine and they don’t line up, am I meant to be elongating the holes?

    Kris
    no they dont line up, what we used to do was use some quarter inch thick steel strips drill to suit blocks and x member to space the x member back

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Engine and gearbox is finally in, I have cut the rad section out and a bit off the battery tray to be able to retain the battery easily and allow for movement of engine/carbs.




    Just need to try the prop in and that’s everything trial fitted I think. Lots to sort out but I am glad she is finally in.

    Thanks
    Kris

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Glad you got there in the end
    GavinR

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/signaturepics/sigpic2999_8.gif

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    Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    How tight without cutting the tray ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Spanner Monkey Kmp's Avatar

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    Re: Does this pinto look right in the engine bay

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    How tight without cutting the tray ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well tbh it would have been touch and go without any filters, didn’t want to run the risk of them hitting so cut a load out before the box was finally installed. Looking at it now it’s properly in place, I didn’t need to cut quite so much off. The battery that was in the tray when I bought the car still fits with the clamp in on the smallest sized battery clamp hole.

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