New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

[evans2822]

The main problem I see Is what ID they carry and what they will be classed as with crash testing laws Euro NCAP bla bla bla I dont think If bought complete they could be considered a service part many would be built Into complete new cars and If done correctly would have to have their own VIN's and ID and therefore be declared new at 1st registration and given a 62" plate or whatever applies what laws then apply emisions etc etc or...(Or could you use your old rotted car ID I dont know technically no I assume)

If they are made available would they be classed as a kit car? Also as mentioned already You can buy all the panels etc (mostly) but their Just panels meant to replace rusty/damaged ones (like service parts If you like)the minute their spot welded together to make a COMPLETE COPY of an Escort I fear shit would hit the fan with Ford tbh especially considering you have to ask/get permission to remake even decals?

Im not 100% but I think they actually ok'd the Mustang ones In America but I think the market for them In America Is massoooove even compared to what we think would be a big Escort market over here?

[evans2822]

The main problem I see Is what ID they carry and what they will be classed as with crash testing laws Euro NCAP bla bla bla I dont think If bought complete they could be considered a service part many would be built Into complete new cars and If done correctly would have to have their own VIN's and ID and therefore be declared new at 1st registration and given a 62" plate or whatever applies what laws then apply emisions etc etc or...(Or could you use your old rotted car ID I dont know technically no I assume)

If they are made available would they be classed as a kit car? Also as mentioned already You can buy all the panels etc (mostly) but their Just panels meant to replace rusty/damaged ones (like service parts If you like)the minute their spot welded together to make a COMPLETE COPY of an Escort I fear shit would hit the fan with Ford tbh especially considering you have to ask/get permission to remake even decals?

Im not 100% but I think they actually ok'd the Mustang ones In America but I think the market for them In America Is massoooove even compared to what we think would be a big Escort market over here?

Not knocking the Idea at all Its just I cant help thinking some official type people will click onto the fact that suddenly hundreds of brand new 40ish yr old cars are turning up lol

[morcheen]

Not knocking the Idea at all Its just I cant help thinking some official type people will click onto the fact that suddenly hundreds of brand new 40ish yr old cars are turning up lol

so what have they done in America with all the new mustang shells ? i don't see it as a problem as it has been done already,just a matter of money and time before they appear.

[para144]

You have been able to buy new shells here for Mini, MG's & sprites etc for years. Oh and E types too

http://www.idluk.eu/bodyshells/

http://www.bmh-ltd.com/minishell.htm

http://www.bmh-ltd.com/mgbshell.htm

http://www.bmh-ltd.com/midgetshell.htm

[Montyman]

You have been able to buy new shells here for Mini, MG's & sprites etc for years. Oh and E types too

http://www.idluk.eu/bodyshells/

http://www.bmh-ltd.com/minishell.htm

http://www.bmh-ltd.com/mgbshell.htm

http://www.bmh-ltd.com/midgetshell.htm

And you could at one time buy service shells, for cars of our vintage, directly from Ford so they clearly were available as a spare part once.

[evans2822]

Ah so they can be classed as a service part? If so that would be ok...I wonder what happens with those shells mini's etc they must end up on old ID'S then surely?

[fuzzy felt]

whats the difference between buying mk1 escort wings front panels door skins etc which are all available new and non genuine and then buying off a irish man a whole bare new shell ??

please tell me because i'm struggling with understanding the difference here ????????????????

and when people start with the sva legislation nonsense and registering new shells they are having a laugh as i'm certain the irish man is making available a part to repair clapped out or damaged stuff not shells to register as new cars.

[mk2 stevie]

al have one mk 2 new shell. please

[alladdin]

And you could at one time buy service shells, for cars of our vintage, directly from Ford so they clearly were available as a spare part once.

agreed, which makes you wonder if ford could stop the production of new spare shells even if they wanted to

@EVANS2822 lee, the intention of these was never as a way to build a "new" car but as a replacement body shell for an existing damaged/rotten one

[Sashasapphire92]

Would love a new sapphire shell if anyone wants to do them

[katluke]

Will have a lot to do with the quality of the new shells and the price should they get made. Some pattern parts are crap ( some manufacturers cant even make a decent wing ) I still think the easiest way would be to make all the parts needed available like has been done with the Mustang shell ( for cheapness in Asia ) Then have somewhere in Europe assembling them on a jig for quality and also to reduce transportation costs. I would need to see an assembled shell before parting with any money. Somebody will come up with something. jmo

[evans2822]

agreed, which makes you wonder if ford could stop the production of new spare shells even if they wanted to

@EVANS2822 lee, the intention of these was never as a way to build a "new" car but as a replacement body shell for an existing damaged/rotten one

I got ya Mike I was thinking that after seeing the posts of what other shells are available

[evans2822]

whats the difference between buying mk1 escort wings front panels door skins etc which are all available new and non genuine and then buying off a irish man a whole bare new shell ??

please tell me because i'm struggling with understanding the difference here ????????????????

and when people start with the sva legislation nonsense and registering new shells they are having a laugh as i'm certain the irish man is making available a part to repair clapped out or damaged stuff not shells to register as new cars.

There Is a huge difference mate producing a COPY of a panel for repair Is light years away from producing a COPY of a COMPLETE bodyshell (or 60% of a car) that FORD made/owns copyright to If production went ahead I am 99% sure If Ford saw fit they could stop It happening or more than likely come to some agreement to have them made under license to have their cut...

On the other hand they may not give a shit?

[Montyman]

I don't know if Ford still do own copyright to the shell. Copyrights are often time limited and the car has been out of production for over 35 years, is their copyright still valid? Nor can Ford claim that anyone is damaging them commercially as they don't actually have the tooling to reproduce shells even if they wanted too.

[fuzzy felt]

There Is a huge difference mate producing a COPY of a panel for repair Is light years away from producing a COPY of a COMPLETE bodyshell (or 60% of a car) that FORD made/owns copyright to If production went ahead I am 99% sure If Ford saw fit they could stop It happening or more than likely come to some agreement to have them made under license to have their cut...

On the other hand they may not give a shit?

well pal thats your opinion but not mine, the way i see it if the irishman makes a shell with no wings doors or bonnet and boot so its the bare minimum i can see it being sold as a part no different than buying a back panel door skin front panel and inner and outer wings,and if i'm totally honest if ford gave a damn they would of shut jeff coats down twenty years ago and as they haven't i can't see it in the future happening either.

[e321]

Possibly a difference between making parts to repair existing shells and making complete new shells

[evans2822]

I don't know if Ford still do own copyright to the shell. Copyrights are often time limited and the car has been out of production for over 35 years, is their copyright still valid? Nor can Ford claim that anyone is damaging them commercially as they don't actually have the tooling to reproduce shells even if they wanted too.

You may well be right I'm not being negative toward John Coats plans at all I think Its a great Idea but I would think If people were going to take part In a deposit scheme then they would like some sort of assurance that they would end up getting a shell... It cant be that hard to find out weather or not Ford still owns copyright etc rather just do It and risk getting burnt fingers and peoples deposits etc

Maybe I'm too careful lol

[Montyman]

Since when did the Chinese give a Monkeys about copyright law anyway?

Rolls Royce for 30k anyone?

[evans2822]

well pal thats your opinion but not mine, the way i see it if the irishman makes a shell with no wings doors or bonnet and boot so its the bare minimum i can see it being sold as a part no different than buying a back panel door skin front panel and inner and outer wings,and if i'm totally honest if ford gave a damn they would of shut jeff coats down twenty years ago and as they haven't i can't see it in the future happening either.

They may have shut him down once 20 yrs ago you were only 2 lol...

See my reply to Montyman Im not after an arument about It lol

[evans2822]

Since when did the Chinese give a Monkeys about copyright law anyway?

Rolls Royce for 30k anyone?

Are you kidding me thats a real one lol

[Montyman]

Are you kidding me thats a real one lol

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-It-China.html

[evans2822]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-It-China.html

LoL I did realise It was a copy

Not allot of difference there Is It lol...Maybe thats the answer? To save dicking about/worrying about copyright weather Its applicable or not bang new shells out and put wing wong badges on them

[fuzzy felt]

you don't need to put chineeze badges on a ching chong escort shell,i buy pop on copy panels and the way they get around selling them is making them slightly different,now sometimes i struggle to see what the difference is but i'm certain if the irishman put wings on a escort shell that looked like they were off a viva then no one could say its a escort,then when you have it in your possesion you lob the vivaesque wings in the bin and wop on some of the good stuff....... e.z and i'm only 22 innit !!!!!

[lincolndanny]

you don't need to put chineeze badges on a ching chong escort shell,i buy pop on copy panels and the way they get around selling them is making them slightly different,now sometimes i struggle to see what the difference is but i'm certain if the irishman put wings on a escort shell that looked like they were off a viva then no one could say its a escort,then when you have it in your possesion you lob the vivaesque wings in the bin and wop on some of the good stuff....... e.z and i'm only 22 innit !!!!!

Thats how they got round doing Series 1 RS Turbo graphics-1 dot less!

[morcheen]

it's a non argument as mustang shells have been made so the subject of any copyright must have been overcome or never existed at all .anyone found articles about the mustang concerning this ? ford can be very anal about this i suppose but look at the shite they make these days,i wouldn't buy any of them but would buy a new mk1/2 shell

[fuzzy felt]

Thats how they got round doing Series 1 RS Turbo graphics-1 dot less!

theres someone on ebay selling bargain priced short wheel base transit sills for mk6's and 7's and they are not the same as gen ford unless you trim a amount of steel off one side of the sill,its even pressed so you know exactly where to trim and for that fact they can legally sell this piece of cheep metal that will fit a tranny sill perfectly yet avoiding any legality issues, i can see the same thing happening with a escort shell tbh.

[evans2822]

Here you go guys...

http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/ford_models2.html

Wasn't such a daft question after all the new Mustang shells are being produced under license...

Pay particular attention to the bottom of the page where there Is a ford emblem with official Licensed product on It


They may not give a shit about old Escorts mind and I hope they don't as the price would go up...

[fuzzy felt]

ok i just asked a bloke who's mrs works for ford high up how you get your stuff licenced under ford and heres the place to do it if you want to go official..... https://fordbrandlicensing.com/NewBrandUseStep1.asp

[fuzzy felt]

NEWS ALERT----------------------- !!!!

theres plenty of info regarding mustang licenced shells so this will make interesting reading too and very very relevant.....

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...ord-licensing/

[evans2822]

Personally I cant see any other way than the correct way and that's to obtain permission to be able to make them under license...Anyone who tries to make money off fords back by copying their product regardless of age Is running a very high risk of getting badly burned minor differences or not...

If the company/companies making the Mustang shells could get away with making them unlicensed they would as they would make more money..

Its all about business and £££ at the end of the day not weather Ford give a shit about old escorts If 300 shells were made and snapped up like hotcakes would they leave It at that? No they would make more to make more money and then It could very well happen that even 5-600 are churned out ...One things for sure you cant take messing around with the big boys lightly I wouldn't be surprised If Ford know this Is In the pipeline already and once tooled up some people may very well get a tap on the shoulder...

I know service shells were available but these were made by ford so the money was going In their pocket Its when the money goes In some bugger elses pocket the trouble starts

[dangerousdave]

Anyone stopped to think that maybe he has already contacted ford to enquire about making them under license? Either that or they are still far away because all panels aren't available so he just hasn't thought that far ahead yet?

[evans2822]

Anyone stopped to think that maybe he has already contacted ford to enquire about making them under license? Either that or they are still far away because all panels aren't available so he just hasn't thought that far ahead yet?

He may very well have I doubt It though as earlier on In the thread he says Feck Ford when was the last time they built anything for an old escort...

Dont get me wrong tho I hope they do become available and he succeeds but too many grey areas for careful me

You buy a mustang shell official licensed product shells have obviously been ok'd checked passsed etc by Ford to put their name on It they would be daft not to...
These are built by a company you can go back to should problems arrise (unlikely but you never know)

You spend 5k on a shell Imported from China that may have a problem or develope one where do you go?

And you really need to be thinking of obtaining a license before you tool up to make them what If your told to feck off lol lots of tooling costs/deposits etc down the drain...

I know I seem a negative bugger but like I said I really hope It happens but these questians have to be asked....

[morcheen]

He may very well have I doubt It though as earlier on In the thread he says Feck Ford when was the last time they built anything for an old escort...

Dont get me wrong tho I hope they do become available and he succeeds but too many grey areas for careful me

You buy a mustang shell official licensed product shells have obviously been ok'd checked passsed etc by Ford to put their name on It they would be daft not to...
These are built by a company you can go back to should problems arrise (unlikely but you never know)

You spend 5k on a shell Imported from China that may have a problem or develope one where do you go?

And you really need to be thinking of obtaining a license before you tool up to make them what If your told to feck off lol lots of tooling costs/deposits etc down the drain...

I know I seem a negative bugger but like I said I really hope It happens but these questians have to be asked....

i think it's the best way to make a shell with ford's backing/involvement but how hard will it be to convinced them? i wonder how many projected mustang shell sales it took to make them get involved ? as said it's all about the profit and little else.

[evans2822]

i think it's the best way to make a shell with ford's backing/involvement but how hard will it be to convinced them? i wonder how many projected mustang shell sales it took to make them get involved ? as said it's all about the profit and little else.

Yeh for sure...I was surprised that they do so many types of Mustang shell aswell and that 40's coupe shell must be a huge market over there for those cars to warrent all those tooling costs? Mind perhaps some tooling was already about for them?

[katluke]

Has Ford definetly not got the original tooling that they used to make the original shells etc ? That would be something !!!
" Hey Boss what is this under this large tarpaulin sheet " lol

[Dyno]

Has Ford definetly not got the original tooling that they used to make the original shells etc ? That would be something !!!
" Hey Boss what is this under this large tarpaulin sheet " lol

More often Ford or many other do not produce there own panels. They get stamped elsewhere and welded at the Ford company. Same here in Belgium, I've been more than once in a company who was stamping all the panels for the cars Ford produced in Genk. Now that Ford stops the company is deemed to stop to because they only had one customer. If they would find a new customer they will trow out all moulds and quickly change for the new customer. (this will not happen, they will go over and with a bit of luck Chinese will buy all equipment and build Mondeoeueus in China, next to MG chcihcihce). So chances are very small moulds have been saved in the past when new models came.

[Luke]

Im pretty sure the the guys that make the fibreglass mk1 kitcar (SHP?) had to change the shape of the arches so they weren't exactly the same.
http://www.shpengineering.co.uk/rsr-escort.phtml

[exboyracer]

The original Ford tooling (or most of it) were eventually obtained by Expressed Steel Panels, though I think they have replaced most of it by now as it would be pretty well worn.

[freddy686868]

The original Ford tooling (or most of it) were eventually obtained by Expressed Steel Panels, though I think they have replaced most of it by now as it would be pretty well worn.

I would imagine they obtained the tooling drawings as the old dies would have been run into the ground to maximise profit out of the investment they have put into that die. It takes up less room to store a shed loads of pannels produced off a die set than it is to keep a die set for each panel needed. When the market stopped/slowed down for the panels the companies didn't want to put the money into buying new dies and storage of them dies so they moved on.

[trig]

My dad bought a mgb that had a new shell I asked the guy if it was looked at my anybody like sva he said no he just bolted all his running gear in and had it moted that was it no fuss or questions by anybody. And yes it was on the tax ex log book.