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View Poll Results: SHOULD I RE MAKE ESCORT SHELLS, GENUINE INTERESTED PARTIES ONLY REPLY

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  • MK1 SHELLS

    118 41.70%
  • MK2 SHELLS

    128 45.23%
  • OWN VIN NO,

    7 2.47%
  • INTERESTED IN DEPOSIT SCHEME,,

    30 10.60%
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Thread: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

  1. #201
    Racer Decade Plus User evans2822's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by trig View Post
    My dad bought a mgb that had a new shell I asked the guy if it was looked at my anybody like sva he said no he just bolted all his running gear in and had it moted that was it no fuss or questions by anybody. And yes it was on the tax ex log book.
    Thats probably the norm for using old Id's I was asking that earlier about sva's etc but reading back through the thread and as Alladin posted earlier If these become available their only meant as a service part (RHD no bonnet boot or wings)...That said I expect you could build a new one and sva/register It If you had no old car/ID?

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    I would like to give some information about copyright and patent. I did not know anything about it until resent. Just been into a procedure to get copyright and patents on some carburetor parts I've developed.

    First, there is a big difference between a copyright and a patent but both protect your idea.

    A patent can only taken on a new idea, something that did not exist, is innovating end so on. (not just anything). But more important, it should not exist already. So back to cars. NO ONE can have patent on a car he build. Cars already exist. (unless you build a new car without wheels !!! or something radical). Same for my carburetor. You can not take patent on a carburetor, it already exist. (but you can on some new function parts). So Ford can not have a patent on the Escort shell. They only had the Copyright. A copyright can be taken to any new model. For example, you build an new vacuum cleaner. Just like with cars, you can not take a patent, it already exist. But you made a very funny design (model). Now you can take the copyright for this design. And that's exact what car builders do. They take as many pictures as possible and have them copyright. Same they do for the name of the model like "Sierra".

    Copyrights last 5 years and can be extended 4 times up to 25 years, patent is max 20 years (but you have to pay for it year after year and every year it cost more money to keep the copyright so sometimes they just stop paying when they feel it is enough (who would copy a 10 years old Escort ??? so they probably stopped after 2x 5 years paying for it)). So it is not possible Ford still has the copyrights for the Escort shell.

    And how can Halford sell Ford wings, door panels brake pads etc... legal. Well Ford can't send a picture of every part separate. If they never took the copyright of the wing only it's not protected (not on the body, that does not count, must be wing only). So almost none of the parts car builders use are protected. Halford can copy the water pump, clutch, brake pads, etc.. but they may NEVER put the Ford logo on it. So nothing illegal has been done.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Dyno; 17-01-2013 at 21:27.

  3. #203
    Spanner Monkey micraman's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Hera what your saying but ford have got deeper pockets than most! wouldnt like to get into it with them copyright or not they wouldnt site on the fence while someone made money out of there idea! would you?

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by micraman View Post
    Hera what your saying but ford have got deeper pockets than most! wouldnt like to get into it with them copyright or not they wouldnt site on the fence while someone made money out of there idea! would you?
    Deep pockets or not, it's max 25 years and that's it (if they would have kept it for 25 years). Nothing Ford can do about it. There is no way you can keep anyone from copying on models after this time. Same for a patent, max 20 years. And that's why Coca-cola never took patent or copyright. They just kept it secret.

  5. #205
    Racer Decade Plus User evans2822's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    Deep pockets or not, it's max 25 years and that's it (if they would have kept it for 25 years). Nothing Ford can do about it. There is no way you can keep anyone from copying on models after this time. Same for a patent, max 20 years. And that's why Coca-cola never took patent or copyright. They just kept it secret.
    Why have ford got Involved with the Mustang and the 40's coupe then? Surely If the companies could have knocked them out without them Involved they could make more money so why Involve Ford If you dont have too?
    Last edited by evans2822; 18-01-2013 at 00:29.

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by evans2822 View Post
    Why have ford got Involved with the Mustang and the 40's coupe then? Surely If the companies could have knocked them out without them Involved they could make more money so why Involve Ford If you dont have too?
    There is a difference between copying parts and getting a car on the road. If you copy the Escort in China, you will not be able getting it on the road with correct VIN numbers (or you stamp them in the chassis illegal like many others have done with stolen cars). Same happens here with Citroën 2CV's. All chassis where very bad. There where people building new chassis but it was not legal using them, until Citroën agreed and now you can buy them with the correct VIN number and use them on the road.

    I see no other reason why Ford would be involved in the Mustang market. How do you think you can legal put numbers in it without Ford? Ford can sell it as a "repair" part.

    If the reason was because of a copyright, how can Halford sell an Escort wing, making money out of Ford and still not being in yale. Do you think Ford does not know they sell wings, water pumps, etc... in car shops? I explained before.

    Again, I've just been into a Copyright and patent job and this is how it works, no other options are available to protect technical your work. In maximum 25 years (if I keep paying so long) everybody can copy the parts I've just developed. For the patents I've taken, max 20 years.
    Last edited by Dyno; 18-01-2013 at 09:36.

  7. #207
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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    great idea irelands boys will surely buy loads. there nutters!and go through shells like hot cakes. i could see den motorsport/grp4 fabrications/camilus bradley having demand for them as well as the uk rally shops hope this goes ahead it will be great to see them.

  8. #208
    Pole Position Decade Plus User morcheen's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by walkermk2 View Post
    i could see den motorsport/grp4 fabrications/camilus bradley having demand for them as well as the uk rally shops hope this goes ahead it will be great to see them.
    maybe they could invest in making them ?

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    New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    I agree if they invested it would be wicked :-)

  10. #210
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    New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    There's some companies got a good stock of second hand shells & the price they charge for them are very close to the new ones do until they get rid of them, I can't see them going for new shells but you never know !!

    There's one company got Mk2's racked to the roof in a storage shed !!

    Cheers,
    David

  11. #211
    Pole Position Decade Plus User morcheen's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    but shells must be getting more and more scarce around the world.pity the economy is so shite or they could have been made by now.it has to happen sometime

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    New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by morcheen View Post
    but shells must be getting more and more scarce around the world.pity the economy is so shite or they could have been made by now.it has to happen sometime
    I think you just need to look at all panels that are now available & it's not too far away from a complete shell.......shells cant be far away........time will tell !! ;-)

  13. #213
    Spanner Monkey micraman's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    If it happens it will be the irish lads that make it happen!

  14. #214
    Spanner Monkey Dazzer76's Avatar

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    New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Any update on this one chaps ??? Or a date for the holy grail .... Mk2 rear quarters yet .......

  15. #215
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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    any updates on the doors or info on how they will come?

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    Spanner Monkey Dazzer76's Avatar

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    New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Yes when's the doors due were all in need of doors lol

  17. #217
    Bodger fuzzy felt's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by micraman View Post
    If it happens it will be the irish lads that make it happen!
    sorry to burst your bubble but theres a turk on here in turky who makes mk2 escort shells from scratch,he is the only person i know of in the world got a brand new nos mk2 escort 2dr saloon shell also !!

  18. #218
    Bodger fuzzy felt's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by evans2822 View Post
    Why have ford got Involved with the Mustang and the 40's coupe then? Surely If the companies could have knocked them out without them Involved they could make more money so why Involve Ford If you dont have too?
    simple really, they have got in touch with ford motor companys licencing dept and sorted out a deal whereby they can officially supply new shells.

    the same could happen with mk1 and 2 shells also if you were to go through the correct channels.

  19. #219
    Spanner Monkey micraman's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    You aint burst my bubble fair play too him! turkey long way from ireland!

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by micraman View Post
    You aint burst my bubble fair play too him! turkey long way from ireland!
    Turkey is a non EU Country and has difficult tax and customs

    I had some people down there who want to buy parts but there aren´t many parcel services that ship down there

  21. #221
    Bodger fuzzy felt's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by micraman View Post
    You aint burst my bubble fair play too him! turkey long way from ireland!
    irelands not the only place in the world that rally mk1 and 2 escorts, look at the chinese mexico rs etc wings and stuff they come from china and turkys not as far as china.

    also the fella in turky does not mention it very often but he has connections at the top of ford motorsport turky and is used to dealing with top uk ford preparation teams.
    Last edited by fuzzy felt; 29-01-2013 at 20:13.

  22. #222
    Racer Decade Plus User evans2822's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzy felt View Post
    simple really, they have got in touch with ford motor companys licencing dept and sorted out a deal whereby they can officially supply new shells.

    the same could happen with mk1 and 2 shells also if you were to go through the correct channels.
    I know why ya bewty I told you that earlier In the thread when I said I cant see any way these can be supplied here without Fords backing(license)and you said you can copy and sell what you like ha ha(Then you quickly changed your tune when I showed you Mustang shells were being made under license).. That quote of mine you answered was In reply to the other bloke that reckons you can copy what you like lol??...
    Last edited by evans2822; 30-01-2013 at 13:16.

  23. #223
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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    rainspeed in turkey are making them already

  24. #224
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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Another cool thing would be alloy doors

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by mk2 stevie View Post
    rainspeed in turkey are making them already
    Cool:

    http://www.rainspeed.com/body_worksh...d-333-id-45532

  26. #226
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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by max0815 View Post
    Another cool thing would be alloy doors
    That would be amazing

  27. #227
    Racer Decade Plus User evans2822's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by mk2 stevie View Post
    rainspeed in turkey are making them already
    http://www.rainspeed.com/body_worksh...d-333-id-45532

    Thats a shell that they have made a new floor and front end for? Deffo not a new shell nothing on the site says new shells are available either??...

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    maybe mate but i wud pit money on it if ya asked the man he cud make one from scratch? he has a full shell in the garage that is brand new, he is taking all measurements from it,

  29. #229
    Racer Decade Plus User evans2822's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by mk2 stevie View Post
    maybe mate but i wud pit money on it if ya asked the man he cud make one from scratch? he has a full shell in the garage that is brand new, he is taking all measurements from it,
    I bet the new one he has tucked away would fetch a few quid now eh lol

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    ats for sure, think i red that a shell fully restored is 13500? not sure if at is grp 4 spec as well, then ther would be postage

  31. #231
    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Did anyone see the Top Gear when they went to China-loads of copied car models over there-they even had a Chinese copy BMW X5 4x4 thing which BMW took legal action over-however the court case took place in China-and the Chinese government threw the case out saying tough the car looks nothing like yours...You can get anything made if you want it...and i think that guys right about the 25 year copyright on cars i'm sure i've read about this before.


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  32. #232
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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by meXEco View Post
    Did anyone see the Top Gear when they went to China-loads of copied car models over there-they even had a Chinese copy BMW X5 4x4 thing which BMW took legal action over-however the court case took place in China-and the Chinese government threw the case out saying tough the car looks nothing like yours...You can get anything made if you want it...and i think that guys right about the 25 year copyright on cars i'm sure i've read about this before.
    Yes I'm right about this "Copyright" for maximum 25 years. I've just been into a process to protect some carburetor work for myself. For people who never been into it or don't know how it work, read the official text regarding Patent and Copyrights and you will find out.

    If BMW says it is the same car, they have to prove it. Just like I had to do, they had to take pictures and send them to protect there work. If someone change a small detail, it can already be enough to loose the court. This will all depend on the judge etc...And in China proving you are right will be more difficult than in Europe.

    About copyright for the Escort. NO WAY Ford can still have the copyrights. The car is to old and they probably stopped paying for the rights 10 years after the model was out. Once again, Hallford sell fake Ford part and many others legal. How do you explain? I did in previous replay.

    But getting the car on the road legal without Ford !?!? That's an other story.

  33. #233
    Bodger fuzzy felt's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by evans2822 View Post
    I know why ya bewty I told you that earlier In the thread when I said I cant see any way these can be supplied here without Fords backing(license)and you said you can copy and sell what you like ha ha(Then you quickly changed your tune when I showed you Mustang shells were being made under license).. That quote of mine you answered was In reply to the other bloke that reckons you can copy what you like lol??...
    that was me pointing out why two companys look like they have gone the official route,i still maintain you could make the shell look slightly differant in the chineeze manufacturing process so it could be changed to a oe spec once you bought it and not tell ford as its not a ford, i knew about mustang shells years ago and am very happy to point out about the 40 shell nobody else has ever mentioned before which shows that ford because of the money involved they can make would licence henry fords broom if the dough was substantial enough boyo !!!!!!
    Last edited by fuzzy felt; 01-02-2013 at 11:16.

  34. #234
    Bodger fuzzy felt's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by evans2822 View Post
    http://www.rainspeed.com/body_worksh...d-333-id-45532

    Thats a shell that they have made a new floor and front end for? Deffo not a new shell nothing on the site says new shells are available either??...
    read this boyo........ http://www.rsownersclub.co.uk/rsocbb...d.php?t=232168

    if you wait and the chineeze ones come off obviously they will be much cheaper.
    Last edited by fuzzy felt; 01-02-2013 at 11:49.

  35. #235
    Racer Decade Plus User evans2822's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzy felt View Post
    read this boyo........ http://www.rsownersclub.co.uk/rsocbb...d.php?t=232168

    if you wait and the chineeze ones come off obviously they will be much cheaper.
    I have seen that before aswell and again no shells fully built brand new as the red one earlier although they may have by now? Myself I wouldnt go for a Rainspeed restore anyway nothing wrong with hand made panels for smaller repairs etc but my view properly pressed panels spot welded together as per factory shells Is what I'd want especially for that cost...

    As for the Chinese ones IMO weather there are copyright Issues or not the guy who started this thread hasn't replied here since 2011 there has been no update as to factory/factories getting tooled up or anything about deposit schemes etc etc I'd be suprised If the Chinese ones talked about come to fruition anytime soon If anything It looks like Magnum panels with Inner wings and full floors are closer especially as oldskoolracer was quoting them at £4-5k? Can't see new shells being made and shipped here for that? Highly likely this thread will never bear any updates on full shells tbh although we can all dream lol

    Surely If there was any sort of updates they would be here as there aren't any there probably Isn't unless anyone knows oldskoolracer and knows otherwise? Without updates the thread Is going no where lol so last reply from me until I see evidence of work being done towards actually seeing shells...
    Last edited by evans2822; 01-02-2013 at 13:21.

  36. #236
    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    A lot of people seem to think these things can be knocked up & out in no time-its not like a major manufacturer here its a one man band by the sounds of it-see how long it took him to get the wings done-all off his own back-i'm sure if he's still going ahead he's gonna take all the time it needs to get it done right-yes agreed there's been no updates-either he's given up or is in China right now sorting tooling etc...He said himself there was a lot of fookin about just to get the wings done-imagine the logistics for a complete shell-give the bloke a break!! Personally i think if all the panels get remade there wont be any need for complete shells.


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    Pole Position Decade Plus User freddy686868's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    I have heard off a mate who knows a major pannel supplier who is getting all the pannels from china and the shells aren't that far off from what i hear.

  38. #238
    Pole Position Decade Plus User morcheen's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Quote Originally Posted by meXEco View Post
    A lot of people seem to think these things can be knocked up & out in no time-its not like a major manufacturer here its a one man band by the sounds of it-see how long it took him to get the wings done-all off his own back-i'm sure if he's still going ahead he's gonna take all the time it needs to get it done right-yes agreed there's been no updates-either he's given up or is in China right now sorting tooling etc...He said himself there was a lot of fookin about just to get the wings done-imagine the logistics for a complete shell-give the bloke a break!! Personally i think if all the panels get remade there wont be any need for complete shells.
    John Folan said he was basing himself in the Philippines this time as he couldn't stick or even indentify the food in China last time not heard updates yet.

    making slight changes to the shell to make it easier to produce would no doubt save on final costs.for example even leaving out the dash panel,which would be easier to retro fit and simplifying other complicated panels too.the rumours are sounding good

  39. #239
    Spanner Monkey Dazzer76's Avatar

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    New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    Have you heard from him lately ? Do we have any new panels due yet

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    Pole Position Decade Plus User morcheen's Avatar

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    Re: New shells,, yes or no??? Mk1 and mk2

    not heard a thing from him since the summer.i will try to call him next week.

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