Newman Ph3 blacktop cams fitting

[Fizzer]

Needs some advice about fitting these before I go any further.

I need to shave a little bit of metal off round the inlet cams - not a problem - however the chap at Newmans said I wouldn't need funky newman shimless lifters with my ph3 cams (it says this too on this pdf: http://www.newman-cams.com/pdf/ford.pdf )

Now I've put in the exhaust cam and turned it over a bit, it's lifting the shims off of the lifters

Anyone else had this problem? Is it a problem? I had also heard that some people put loctite under the shims - this seems like too much of a bodge to be really true...

It would be a shame to turn it over, ping out the shims and waste hundreds of beer tokens.

[Fizzer]

just a quick update, have spoken to Ken at Newman, he's going to measure them up to make sure they're in spec - very friendly service

[Fizzer]

Another update (if anyone is interested) - Spoke to Ken at Newman yesterday. I think they sent the wrong profile, they should be in the post soon 'definately with the 270 profile'...

[trip998]

yes there are people interested in what you are doing!! Especially if you get good customer service response

what kind of power do you expect? is the rest standard?

[Fizzer]

Hi Trip,
I currently have a 2.0 blacktop running on Webber 45's + Alpha ignition and custom pipes. Apart from arp rod bolts and a tiger racing shallow sump the internals are standard.

It's an unknown donor engine and shows signs of wear so probably getting on for 100K but hey, it was only 100 notes so I'm not complaining

So, rumour has it that on standard cams a fresh blacktop will give 165 on TB's and a little less on carbs. Once the cams are in and I've been to Northampton Motorsport (booked in for May) I'd be happy with anything over 170.

[trip998]

Fizzer
let us know how you get on in May

[Graham]

im sure plenty of people will be interested even if they dont post any thing, im interested and i dont havee anything with a zetec in it

[alladdin]

lots of lurkers mate please report results

[Fizzer]

Okey dokey, cams have returned.

My impression of Newmans: really friendly & helpful but slightly disorganised. They were supposed to regrind my cams from ph4 to ph3 and forgot to do that or send them. When I called a week after paying, someone just sent them to me without realising they needed grinding before shipping.

Still, they are VERY happy to give advice, for free, if you phone them up for a chat.

Off to get trollied tonight round a mates and it's May morning in Oxford tomorrow. Hopefully will be sober enough to fit them in the afternoon, if not to drive it.

[Fizzer]

OK, Hangover's gone, just...

Fitted the cams on Saturday afternoon after drinking 7 pints in the morning. Simple enough once you've got the hang of timing things up (hic)
I fired it up and let it fast idle for 20 minutes, then switched it off and went to bed
Yesterday morning, I took it to Stoneleigh. It's a bit tappety, need to sort the clearances, they're are not far out, but far enough to be a little noisy. Idle is smooth and even (my webbers have always had a good idle though) my flat spot is still there (1.5 - 2K) slightly louder exhaust noise at idle and up to 2.5K. It still pulls in top from 2K - I was a little worried it would lose all bottom end with these cams but it seems OK.
From 2.5K up it goes a little mental, 3.5K sounds like Thor is under the bonnet hitting the pistons back down with a hammer and by the time you get to 4K it's really roaring and pulling hard.
I've not taken it past 4.5K yet, I'd like to get the clearances done and a few more miles on it before really winding it up.
Overall I'm v v pleased, my last engine (1.8 silvertop) had a very pleasing peaky nature, it definately preffered to be revved. This engine on standard cams was so torquey that it didn't really make much difference is you revved it or not. Fast but not exciting. Now, it's much like the last one. Can't wait to track it, (noise meter permitting)

[Sonus]

Do you have the Webers with the 5 progression holes in them? If not; might that be the reason for your 1.5-2K rpm flat spot?

[Fizzer]

Update:
Have finally got the shim sizes I needed (Ford dealers are aweful) and spent most of Saturday getting the clearances right. Once you get into the rythmn of it, taking the cams out and putting them back in is a fairly quick process. Getting the clearances spot on is also quite satisfying.
I managed to cock up refitting my oil pickup though. Got the bracket wrong and it was sitting on the floor of the sump - no oil pressure. After I sorted that out I fired it up and ran it for another 20 minutes at 2K - just to be safe.

I could tell straight away that it was running better, A lot less valve noise. Idle is now much smoother and pickup has improved a lot. On the road the flat spot has almost gone. I can't believe the difference to be honest, It's a lot better.

So, phase 1 and 2 all done and dusted. Next up, rolling road on Friday (Northampton Motorsport) - will let you know how I get on. Looking forward to even more horses and a pretty graph on a piece of paper

[trip998]

just got mine running this weekend so i wont be doing anything drastic for a little while yet but cams is something i want to do to my standard blacktop. I would definitely consider Newmans after reading this thread. Good luck on the rollers, look forward to the results.
Have you fitted verniers??

[Fizzer]

Yup, got verniers, I've left them at 0 degrees at the moment, I'm going to let NM fiddle with them

[Fizzer]

OK, so here's the final installment
Turned up at Northampton Motorsport just before 9.00 yesterday. They had a few bits and bobs to sort out so we didn't start strapping the car down until half past. Troy is a good bloke and is happy to chat about the car and generally talk car b*llocks all day - which is nice

The first thing he noticed is tha I've got a cr4ppy su fuel pump so he successfully sold me a new Facet pump. Apparently low fuel pressure is the enemy of weber carbs.

So, we're about an hour and a half in before it turns a wheel on the rollers, first run gets 163hp (engine) and Troy changes the mains for smaller jets (running rich)
Also redline is set to 6500K which is 'very low' (Troy), so as I've got arp rod bolts he pushes up to 7300K
Next run gets 170 and lambda is OK everywhere except at about 3K
Next up he starts spending time on the map, quite a lot of time actually, lots of part throttle work too.
Last run gets 177 @ 7300 - basically it's still going up at the redline but neither of us were happy to raise that.
So that was it - I think there are some more horses in there somewhere but for a mornings work 14hp is pretty good going
Had the pump not been an issue I think he would have done a little more work on the carbs at the lower end and perhaps tried adjusting the verniers to shift the peak power down a little (I'm guessing)

So, how does it drive? much better, still got a flat spot at 1.5-2K and very noisy between 3-4K - past 4K up to the redline is pretty bloody good, engine note smooths out and you start getting good clean power - it's a lot faster than it was.

My impression of the cams is that they've given really good peak power, just slightly further up the rev range than I can use every day. I guess it's all about compromise, the car is very drivable round town and is happy to burble along at 40 in 5th - Or you can wind it up 'till it starts screaming.

Overall - thumbs up to Zetecs, Newmans and Northampton Motorsport. - very happy indeed.

Just in time too, we're off to France next week in it and all it needs is a wash and a hoover

[alladdin]

nice writeup

[trip998]

good result that. glad you got there in the end.

what car is it in by the way?

[Fizzer]

lol, not a Ford - not any more anyway - it's a Fisher Fury. Got escort running gear though, does that count?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brentfo...7607085584822/

[trip998]

that looks quite nice. probably made of plastic and quicker than a Ford.

[Fizzer]

Yup and Yup
Would love to replace my daily driver with an early escort estate though. Still trying to convince my wife that old escorts are cool.

[philip2]

glad too hear someone else is happy with the newman cams. ive had their 270's for an xe i built it a westy, and it made really good power/torque. i rate newman over kent/piper, but thats just me.

pleased for you with thwe results

[Fizzer]

Yeah, very glad I went with Newmans in the end. Great after sales service and power delivery is very nice indeed. My mate got a set of 270's for his xe, he'll be encouraged to hear your 270's are working well.

[philip2]

ill see if i can get the RR printout copied for your mate, best thing was it peaked about 6.5k with limit set at 7k so could of been ran on stock rods and still be way under the 7.5k max they could take. only thing you would have to mind is the runs done in 3rd gear not 4th so torques multiplied, but made 190bhp@ wheels but had: wossner hi-comp pistons, rods, i did the headwork, 270s, r1 carbs and TLE manifold/system. the lad was well made up as was only expecting 200bhp@fly and when he gave it some crapped himself, but the engine is in a westy.


but its definately good to see someone else happy with newmans.

[Fizzer]

If you can find that curve I'll pass it on, it might encourage him to get off his lazy a$$ and actually put them in

One thing nagging me is that power is still rising @ the 7200 redline. I had read that if you reduce the overlap of the cams you can move the power down the rev range and get a little more torque and sacrifice a little top end power. This would suit me more I think. Troy didn't do any adjustment of the verniers as he ran out of time changing the fuel pump. Is it worth my while having a play in 2 degree increments given I have no more money for RR time? I don't want to make things worse.

[Graham]

reducing the overlap might bring power down the rev range but sometimes it just makes the engine flat, it may be only one cam needs shifting,

TBH i wouldnt touch the cams until you can get it back to the rollers as changing the cam timing can alter the map or jetting needed

[M11rf]

Good write up... thanks for sharing this info.