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Thread: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

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    Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    I had the lid off my gearbox then moved the gearlever about far too much selecting gears. It seems It's managed to move the locking plate out of it's position as this is normally held in place with the lid on, it's off the end of the selector boss which has also pushed the 3rd and 4th selector fork out of position and off the end of the selector boss. It also looks like the 3rd an 4th gear syncro hub assembly has dropped off the blocker bars and moved out of position because of it. Any suggestions for getting everything back in place without having to dismantle it too much please? After much research at least I understand it a bit more now and I won't be making the same misatke again...

    Hopefully the pics come out alright..

    Any comments welcome please.







    Mmmm not sure if I've just put this in the wrong section, apologies if I have, an maybe someone could put it in teh right place for me please?
    Last edited by rallyrob; 07-01-2019 at 00:53.

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Bump, anyone.

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Sorted it out...

    Turns out you could just about rotate the input shaft and push the blocker bars in one at a time, the last one was a bit of a struggle but then it just popped back into place and the syncro hub slipped back into line again. Shifted about the selector boss and locking plate a bit to line it all up and hay presto. All gears available again.

    I'm also trying to work out the gear ratios.
    But I'm not coming up with the sort of results I was expecting, can anyone help.

    1st is 29 and 16teeth 1:68:1
    2nd 23 and 19 1:21:1
    3rd 20 and 23 0.86:1
    4th 17 and 25 0.50:1

    Do these look right? They dont to me..

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    you dont quite have it right when it comes to ratios, 4th gear is 1;1 because the syncro hubs lock the main shaft solid as one piece.
    as for the others you havnt taken into account how the box actually transfers power, each gear is not one pair of gears, its the result of two pairs,

    the front gear on the input shaft feeds the power down to the front gear on the lay shaft, then one of the other gears on the layshaft feeds the power back up to the main shaft by which ever gear you have selected. its too early for me to work out the maths, but you have two sets of ratios multiplied togther to get each gear ratio, with the exception of 4th

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    I've just worked out your gear ratios with my gearbox ratio calculator - looks like they are:

    1st 2.665:1
    2nd 1.780:1
    3rd 1.279:1
    4th as always 1:1

    Are your tooth counts correct as I'm not sure if those ratios are available from Tran-x (providing i've worked them out right)?

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Well assuming I have counted them correctly, I'm 100% sure they are correct. That is assuming I knew exactly what I was counting which I think I did.

    I know it's definitely a Tran X gear kit, but the only thing I will say about it is it's also 30yrs old, so maybe these ratios are no longer available.

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyWhiteTrash View Post
    I've just worked out your gear ratios with my gearbox ratio calculator - looks like they are:

    1st 2.665:1
    2nd 1.780:1
    3rd 1.279:1
    4th as always 1:1

    Are your tooth counts correct as I'm not sure if those ratios are available from Tran-x (providing i've worked them out right)?

    Okay so I've been watching a youtube vid, excellent one too.
    Did I say that out loud...

    I think you've got 1st gear wrong, I make it 2.48:1...
    Last edited by rallyrob; 18-01-2019 at 00:01.

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post
    Okay so I've been watching a youtube vid, excellent one too.
    Did I say that out loud...

    I think you've got 1st gear wrong, I make it 2.48:1...
    Youtube's not all bad if you find someone who knows what they are doing!

    How did you get 2.48:1? I can get that if I change the mainshaft first gear to 27 teeth.

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyWhiteTrash View Post
    Youtube's not all bad if you find someone who knows what they are doing!

    How did you get 2.48:1? I can get that if I change the mainshaft first gear to 27 teeth.

    Because as it turns out I couldn't read my own bloody writing.

    Sorry the main shaft 1st gear is 27 teeth, not 29..

    It always helps if you can give people the right information in the 1st place, doesn't it...

    I've bloody lost myself again though... Last night I thought I had it but this morning I've lost it again...


    The main shaft 1st gear is still 27 teeth but this morning the sums coming up different because last night as it turns out I was putting in the wrong values when doing the sum again...

    So now I'm coming up closer to your 1st answer but still not quite the same, 2.68:1 for 1st gear
    I make it now.....
    Maths has never been my strong point, so I'm lost again now.

    From my understanding of the youtube vid

    The formula is Driven gear/Drive gear = x Driven gear /Drive gear =

    So that should come out as

    27/17= 1.58 X 27/16 = 2.68... So this should be my 1st gear ratio?

    Does that look right or not?
    Last edited by rallyrob; 18-01-2019 at 09:26.

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post
    Because as it turns out I couldn't read my own bloody writing.

    Sorry the main shaft 1st gear is 27 teeth, not 29..

    It always helps if you can give people the right information in the 1st place, doesn't it...

    I've bloody lost myself again though... Last night I thought I had it but this morning I've lost it again...


    The main shaft 1st gear is still 27 teeth but this morning the sums coming up different because last night as it turns out I was putting in the wrong values when doing the sum again...

    So now I'm coming up closer to your 1st answer but still not quite the same, 2.68:1 for 1st gear
    I make it now.....
    Maths has never been my strong point, so I'm lost again now.

    From my understanding of the youtube vid

    The formula is Driven gear/Drive gear = x Driven gear /Drive gear =

    So that should come out as

    27/17= 1.58 X 27/16 = 2.68... So this should be my 1st gear ratio?

    Does that look right or not?
    Haha, gearboxes aren't fun things to understand initially! There's plenty to think about!

    I thought when you had put that 1st gear had 29 teeth that it was a bit of a big jump between that and 2nd, which would end up giving a slightly too wide ratio difference between 1st and 2nd gear when compared with the rest of the ratios.

    To work out your gear ratios you always use the primary ratio in all calculations - the primary ratio is the number of the teeth on 4th gear on the gear cluster divided by the number of teeth on the 4th/main drive gear and this is used in all calculations as this is the only gear in the gearbox that is always in mesh (it's still in mesh - and turning the cluster gear - in 4th / direct gear but simply isn't driving as 4th gear is then locked to the mainshaft).

    This primary ratio (of 4th gear pair) is driven gear (25 ie cluster) / drive gear (17 ie input/mainshaft) is 25/17 = 1.47058824:1

    Next you work out the secondary ratios which are again driven gear divided by drive gear - for first gear this is the number of teeth on the mainshaft 1st gear ie 27 (driven gear in this instance) divided by the drive gear (ie 1st gear on the cluster) which is 16.

    The secondary ratio of 1st gear pair is driven gear (27 m/shaft) / drive gear (16 cluster) = 1.6875:1
    The secondary ratio of 2nd gear pair is driven gear (23 m/shaft) / drive gear (19 cluster) = 1.21052632:1
    The secondary ratio of 3rd gear pair is driven gear (20 m/shaft) / drive gear (23 cluster) = 0.86956522:1
    The secondary ratio of 4th gear pair is driven gear (17 m/shaft) / drive gear (25 cluster) = 0.68 (this is confusing but will explain below)

    You then multiply the primary ratio by whatever the secondary ratio is to give you the output ratio :

    So, primary of (1.47058824) x secondary ratio of 1st gear pair (1.6875) = 2.48161766:1 1st gear;
    and primary of (1.47058824) x secondary ratio of 2nd gear pair (1.21052632) = 1.78018577:1 2nd gear;
    and primary of (1.47058824) x secondary ratio of 3rd gear pair (0.86956522) = 1.27877239:1 3rd gear;

    The "confusion" I refer to of 4th gear is that it is simply a direct drive / ratio of 1:1 but the maths shows a cancelling out of it's ratios if you use my method above :

    Therefore the primary of (1.47058824) x secondary ratio of 4th gear pair (0.68) = 1.

    The secondary ratio of 4th gear pair now uses driven gear as (17) / and drive gear as (25) = 0.68 (this is a reversed combination of the primary ratio and is for illustration here as there aren't any other gears in the gearbox with that ratio).

    Just to see if I've explained myself properly see if you can work out what ratios these teeth counts give -
    mainshaft gears :

    1st = 32
    2nd = 28
    3rd = 23
    4th = 19

    cluster gears :

    1st = 17
    2nd = 22
    3rd = 26
    4th = 30

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    I'll have to have a look at that a bit later.. Got a busy day today.

    But tbh honest it'll take me ages to get my head around that lot...

    Thanks for the replies btw...

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post
    I'll have to have a look at that a bit later.. Got a busy day today.

    But tbh honest it'll take me ages to get my head around that lot...

    Thanks for the replies btw...
    I thought it might be too much!

    Oh well, at least it's there if any one else wants to lose the will to live reading it!

    Anyway, in summary your ratios based on the numbers you gave are :

    1st - 2.48:1
    2nd - 1.78:1
    3rd - 1.278:1
    4th - 1:1
    Last edited by HonkyWhiteTrash; 18-01-2019 at 11:10.

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post
    I'll have to have a look at that a bit later.. Got a busy day today.

    But tbh honest it'll take me ages to get my head around that lot...

    Thanks for the replies btw...
    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyWhiteTrash View Post
    I thought it might be too much!

    Oh well, at least it's there if any one else wants to lose the will to live reading it!

    Anyway, in summary your ratios based on the numbers you gave are :

    1st - 2.48:1
    2nd - 1.78:1
    3rd - 1.278:1
    4th - 1:1
    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyWhiteTrash View Post
    Haha, gearboxes aren't fun things to understand initially! There's plenty to think about!

    I thought when you had put that 1st gear had 29 teeth that it was a bit of a big jump between that and 2nd, which would end up giving a slightly too wide ratio difference between 1st and 2nd gear when compared with the rest of the ratios.

    To work out your gear ratios you always use the primary ratio in all calculations - the primary ratio is the number of the teeth on 4th gear on the gear cluster divided by the number of teeth on the 4th/main drive gear and this is used in all calculations as this is the only gear in the gearbox that is always in mesh (it's still in mesh - and turning the cluster gear - in 4th / direct gear but simply isn't driving as 4th gear is then locked to the mainshaft).

    This primary ratio (of 4th gear pair) is driven gear (25 ie cluster) / drive gear (17 ie input/mainshaft) is 25/17 = 1.47058824:1

    Next you work out the secondary ratios which are again driven gear divided by drive gear - for first gear this is the number of teeth on the mainshaft 1st gear ie 27 (driven gear in this instance) divided by the drive gear (ie 1st gear on the cluster) which is 16.

    The secondary ratio of 1st gear pair is driven gear (27 m/shaft) / drive gear (16 cluster) = 1.6875:1
    The secondary ratio of 2nd gear pair is driven gear (23 m/shaft) / drive gear (19 cluster) = 1.21052632:1
    The secondary ratio of 3rd gear pair is driven gear (20 m/shaft) / drive gear (23 cluster) = 0.86956522:1
    The secondary ratio of 4th gear pair is driven gear (17 m/shaft) / drive gear (25 cluster) = 0.68 (this is confusing but will explain below)

    You then multiply the primary ratio by whatever the secondary ratio is to give you the output ratio :

    So, primary of (1.47058824) x secondary ratio of 1st gear pair (1.6875) = 2.48161766:1 1st gear;
    and primary of (1.47058824) x secondary ratio of 2nd gear pair (1.21052632) = 1.78018577:1 2nd gear;
    and primary of (1.47058824) x secondary ratio of 3rd gear pair (0.86956522) = 1.27877239:1 3rd gear;

    The "confusion" I refer to of 4th gear is that it is simply a direct drive / ratio of 1:1 but the maths shows a cancelling out of it's ratios if you use my method above :

    Therefore the primary of (1.47058824) x secondary ratio of 4th gear pair (0.68) = 1.

    The secondary ratio of 4th gear pair now uses driven gear as (17) / and drive gear as (25) = 0.68 (this is a reversed combination of the primary ratio and is for illustration here as there aren't any other gears in the gearbox with that ratio).

    Just to see if I've explained myself properly see if you can work out what ratios these teeth counts give -
    mainshaft gears :

    1st = 32
    2nd = 28
    3rd = 23
    4th = 19

    cluster gears :

    1st = 17
    2nd = 22
    3rd = 26
    4th = 30

    Primary 30/19 = (1.57894736842)


    Primary (1.57894736842) x 32/17 = 1.88 (secondary) x Primary (1.57894736842) = 2.95:1 1st gear
    Primary (1.57894736842) x 28/22 = 1.27 (secondary) x Primary (1.57894736842) = 2.00:1 2nd gear
    Primary (1.57894736842) x 23/26 = 0.88 (secondary) x Primary (1.57894736842) = 1.38:1 3rd gear
    Primary (1.57894736842) x 19/30 = 0.63 (secondary) x Primary (1.57894736842) = 0.99:1 4th gear (1:1)

    Is this right, or have I got it wrong again..?


    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyWhiteTrash View Post
    So, primary of (1.47058824) x secondary ratio of 1st gear pair (1.6875) = 2.48161766:1 1st gear;

    So with all that in mind can I question my 1st gear again now then, please?

    Bearing in mind my 4th gear is now 27/17 and not 25/17 (as I 1st posted) so the Primary now being (1.58823529411) x Secondary 27/16 = (1.6875)
    1.58823529411 x 1.6875 = 2.68:1 instead of 2.48:1 ?

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    you must be doing something wrong because 4th gear is exactly 1:1 because the syncro hubs lock up and the drive goes straight through the gearbox, you could put a gearbox together and leave out the lay shaft altogether it would still have a working 4th year!

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Mmmm. Ok, I'll have another look then. But that sum is a recuring figure which is about as close to 1.1 as I could get...

    Are the rest alright though Graham? If so then I cant be far out...

    Ok so a quick look at it before I go out this afternoon an I came up with this...
    0.6333333333×1.5789473684 = 1:1
    Last edited by rallyrob; 20-01-2019 at 13:37.

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post
    Primary 30/19 = (1.57894736842)


    Primary (1.57894736842) x 32/17 = 1.88 (secondary) x Primary (1.57894736842) = 2.95:1 1st gear
    Primary (1.57894736842) x 28/22 = 1.27 (secondary) x Primary (1.57894736842) = 2.00:1 2nd gear
    Primary (1.57894736842) x 23/26 = 0.88 (secondary) x Primary (1.57894736842) = 1.38:1 3rd gear
    Primary (1.57894736842) x 19/30 = 0.63 (secondary) x Primary (1.57894736842) = 0.99:1 4th gear (1:1)

    Is this right, or have I got it wrong again..?

    So with all that in mind can I question my 1st gear again now then, please?

    Bearing in mind my 4th gear is now 27/17 and not 25/17 (as I 1st posted) so the Primary now being (1.58823529411) x Secondary 27/16 = (1.6875)
    1.58823529411 x 1.6875 = 2.68:1 instead of 2.48:1 ?
    Nice one - those ratios are nearly spot on - looks you've not used enough decimal places though on secondary ratio to get a more accurate number but the method is correct - it does make a difference! You need to use figures to the same number of decimal places to get accurate answers, particularly for 4th gear.

    The ratios are for a 2000e gearbox with :
    1st = 2.972:1
    2nd = 2.010:1
    3rd = 1.397:1
    4th 1:1

    Regarding your T9 box can you clarify teeth counts as I'm now confused!
    Last edited by HonkyWhiteTrash; 20-01-2019 at 15:12.

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyWhiteTrash View Post
    Nice one - those ratios are nearly spot on - looks you've not used enough decimal places though on secondary ratio to get a more accurate number but the method is correct - it does make a difference! You need to use figures to the same number of decimal places to get accurate answers, particularly for 4th gear.

    The ratios are for a 2000e gearbox with :
    1st = 2.972:1
    2nd = 2.010:1
    3rd = 1.397:1
    4th 1:1

    Regarding your T9 box can you clarify teeth counts as I'm now confused!
    Excellent, yea I wondered if that was why I wasn't coming up quite right when Graham pointed it out. I just re did it again an it came out right then...

    I also wondered what those ratios were out of... Thanks for the help.. I'll just keep going over again now to try an get it to stick in my brain a bit better. I'll also make lots more notes an drawings too.

    Im on my way round the garage again now, Im going to double check all of my gear counts...

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyWhiteTrash View Post
    Regarding your T9 box can you clarify teeth counts as I'm now confused!
    Okay, so after a full and complete recount, double and triple checking them all again aswell, I've found the following. I'm still not sure how I mixed them up that badly but I had some wrong gear counts altogether. Atleast thats what I posted at the start anyway.

    Revised are now:
    Mainshaft gears:

    1st = 27
    2nd = 23
    3rd = 20
    4th = 17

    Countershaft gears:

    1st = 25
    2nd = 23
    3rd = 20
    4th = 16

    So I'm back at 2.48:1 1st gear again.
    2nd was different by 1 tooth on the countershaft aswell. So this is now 1.69:1

    1st = 2.48:1
    2nd = 1.69:1
    3rd = 1.278:1
    4th = 1:1

    And in the excititment of it all and despite the fact that I actually had the tail housing
    unbolted and partially off the back of the box aswell I forgot to count 5th gear

    But I'm reasonably sure that just comes out at roughly at about 0.86:1 as it's still overdrive isn't it?
    It's definitely the 1st 3 gears that I wanted to work out the ratios of, an I supposed I've always known 4th was 1:1 anyway. I just never knew how to get the results of it all.

    Thanks for the help.
    Last edited by rallyrob; 20-01-2019 at 23:46.

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    Re: Tran-x Straight cut Type 9 gear selection problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post
    Okay, so after a full and complete recount, double and triple checking them all again aswell, I've found the following. I'm still not sure how I mixed them up that badly but I had some wrong gear counts altogether. Atleast thats what I posted at the start anyway.

    Revised are now:
    Mainshaft gears:

    1st = 27
    2nd = 23
    3rd = 20
    4th = 17

    Countershaft gears:

    1st = 25
    2nd = 23
    3rd = 20
    4th = 16

    So I'm back at 2.48:1 1st gear again.
    2nd was different by 1 tooth on the countershaft aswell. So this is now 1.69:1

    1st = 2.48:1
    2nd = 1.69:1
    3rd = 1.278:1
    4th = 1:1

    And in the excititment of it all and despite the fact that I actually had the tail housing
    unbolted and partially off the back of the box aswell I forgot to count 5th gear

    But I'm reasonably sure that just comes out at roughly at about 0.86:1 as it's still overdrive isn't it?
    It's definitely the 1st 3 gears that I wanted to work out the ratios of, an I supposed I've always known 4th was 1:1 anyway. I just never knew how to get the results of it all.

    Thanks for the help.
    No problem!

    Nice one, looks good! Glad you're sorted! I made myself a spreadsheet so that you only have to put the numbers in to work out the ratios - fairly easy to make if you need one and definitely quicker than using a calculator every time!


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