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Thread: Locost ST170

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    Bodger scutter's Avatar

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    Locost ST170

    Didn't think this was too bad for a start.

    Standard ST
    GSXR 750 Throttle bodies
    Omex 500 ECU

    Found another 5BHP when we rev'd to 7600 but i didn't get that graph. Exhaust cam pulley and the VVC switch point to play with still, and i fancy a set of piper cams


    ATB Dan.Click image for larger version Name:	img002.jpg Views:	61 Size:	505.8 KB ID:	44272

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    Re: Locost ST170

    looks good that dan must feel a bit quicker than the little xflow

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Looks like the fuelling needs a tweak around the mid RPM range, but otherwise good What RPM do you have the VVT coming in at?
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    Re: Locost ST170

    Quote Originally Posted by steely dan View Post
    looks good that dan must feel a bit quicker than the little xflow
    Justa bit Dan, the is a flat spot that needs clearing up, VVT was programed for 4000, but i think i'll drop it to 2500.

    ATB Dan.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Dave Walker at Emerald had an ST170 on the rollers and found that the cam switch is best at 2500 revs > 50% throttle... and off at the same

    Hope that helps

    Best Regards

    Craig

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Cheers Craig, my omex only does 1 function for switching the vvc, so down it comes to 2500.

    ATB Dan.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    The ST170 engine needs a separate map for the VVT unlike the Honda's that just need it switching. I recently mapped a standard engine in a MK2 rallycar and we achieved 181bhp on DTA S60 .

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Thanks but until funds allow I'm stuck with the Omex 500. Still 180 in 600kgs of car should/does make it shift.

    ATB Dan.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Looks good that scutter
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: Locost ST170

    Quote Originally Posted by dynoman View Post
    The ST170 engine needs a separate map for the VVT unlike the Honda's that just need it switching. I recently mapped a standard engine in a MK2 rallycar and we achieved 181bhp on DTA S60 .
    As a matter of interest had this one back today to play some more and with a bit more adjustment to the mapping and playing with the exhaust cam found 14bhp @ 4000rpm and peaked 188bhp . Not bad for a standard engine. why more people do not use these i really don't no.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Dynoman, out of interest where are you based? Also you would be kind enough to tell me what you ended up setting the Exhaust cam to?

    ATB Dan.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    I am in sunny South Wales !
    The cam timing lifts the hole you have at 4000rpm , hence the 14 bhp i mention in my last post .
    You will need to play with the timing to see where you get the best results especially as you are running different induction. Ii also brought the VVT map 500rpm lower to overcome a running issue which helped somewhat . Also you are just switching the VVT as opposed to mapping it.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    hi i am putting a st170 engine in my locost running an omex 600 and gsxr 1000 throttle bodies could you possably send me your map so i can get it to the rolling road. Also your running an omex 500 will they interchange. thanks lew

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    Re: Locost ST170

    mk1lew. ive sent you a message.

    Dynoman, we changed the Exhaust up to 2.5" and it made funnily enough 188 Only then did we twig that the VVC wasn't kicking in, so there is more to play with.

    Cheers Dan.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Quote Originally Posted by scutter View Post
    mk1lew. ive sent you a message.

    Dynoman, we changed the Exhaust up to 2.5" and it made funnily enough 188 Only then did we twig that the VVC wasn't kicking in, so there is more to play with.

    Cheers Dan.
    You changed the exhaust diameter? I was talking about timing, but good to see its going the right way.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    I'm stumped now, can the VVT solenoid be bypassed by high oil pressure? My VVT wasn't working when we mapped it and all I have read is that it shouldn't make the power it does. (I'm not complaining)

    We hooked up the solenoid correctly and the car ran like Sh*t as it wasn't mapped for the extra advance.
    The question is how much more does/should the VVT give me?

    ATB Dan.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Well i have done 3 of these so far with a couple of others in the pipeline.
    The first one had the vvt on a manual switch and it only made 136bhp but it developed that pretty well everywhere, the second one was 163 bhp without the vvt working but the inlet flaps locked on short length. at 3000 rpm it made 85bhp, the final one with the vvt mapped made
    108bhp @ 3000rpm and 188bhp max. Based on that its worth20+BHP throughout the rev range. Bearing in mind that the exhaust cam timing was optimised on the last 2.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Thanks, so if I'm pesamistic, 11 horses isn't too much to ask. that would break the 200 mark on a stock engine apart from the Cam pulley. Inlet length isn't an issue on GSXR throttle bodies.

    Hmmm, more rolling road time me thinks.

    ATB Dan.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Looks like you got a good one then bud
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: Locost ST170

    Hey scutter cant email you back new to all this. It would really help me out if you could send me the 600 map
    thanks lewis
    lewisdorling@hotmail.com

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Lewis, Ive sent a 600 map to this address.
    ATB Dan.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Here is the lastest plot.


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    Re: Locost ST170

    OK a strange one now, we finally go the VVC working and mapped.

    Lost 7hp but gained 21 flbs of torque! Now the torque is there from 3000 rpm. it's a giggle and the car feels faster. Damn thing spins up it's wheels in 3rd now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Nov 11006.jpg‎  


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    Re: Locost ST170

    The last power curve is Much better, I was looking at the other two power curves and thinking where is the torque! massive improvement with the last power curve, cam timing must have been well out before
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: Locost ST170

    I'm one of dynoman's subjects! And have just collected my car from there following some development work on the mbe ecu. I have now gained just shy of 25bhp with the Vvt working as it should, instead of just fully on or off. Engines a st170, untouched internally, standard induction, 193@ flywheel. Not sure what I'd gain with some cam's and throttle bodies! Impressive cheap little engine!

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    boXXer
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    You got 193hp out of a std ST170?????

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Click image for larger version Name:	23-07-09 100.jpg Views:	6 Size:	812.8 KB ID:	49116Click image for larger version Name:	Picture 131.jpg Views:	12 Size:	2.06 MB ID:	49117A decent /modern ECU would help, but on a standard engine!!!! If that's true then I best start saving. My exhaust helps a lot.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    I sure have! Pleased as punch wit it!

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    Re: Locost ST170

    The ecu is the latest spec mbe 9A4, hence why it can deal with the separate mapping for the vvt, there's an adjustable vernier on exhaust, and a decent manifold, and a 1.8 flywheel, other than that, it's as ford built it!

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Quote Originally Posted by boXXer View Post
    You got 193hp out of a std ST170?????
    I've got to admit, I'm pretty sceptical of that figure!!
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: Locost ST170

    Well, I know of another who has 188, and also know people who have used the same tuner, and when gone to other places after, have had the same result, so his rollers are pretty much on it. The st motor is quite well worked on by ford, if dynoman sees this, maybe he would clarify my results. I have nothing to gain by making it up.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Quote Originally Posted by dyn-car-gwyn View Post
    Well, I know of another who has 188, and also know people who have used the same tuner, and when gone to other places after, have had the same result, so his rollers are pretty much on it. The st motor is quite well worked on by ford, if dynoman sees this, maybe he would clarify my results. I have nothing to gain by making it up.
    Sorry, I didn't mean for you too think that I thought you was making it up!! That wasn't my intention!!
    The reason I say it is because you have a totally stock engine with nothing more than a different exhaust and an exhaust cam vernier. I sold Scutter the engine in his Locust and I looked into them loads and one of the big things I picked up from the ST170 Focus boys was that hardly any of them made the quoted 170 their engines should have done!! And many of them had the cam vernier!!
    Now, maybe your ECU is behind it all?? I don't know?
    I know the engine was well worked on by Ford, even to the point that the standard exhaust manifold doesn't get changed by the Focus boys as nothing else seems to beat it!! But then, they don't have the space in their engine bays to do anything else

    At the end of the day, as many on this forum have said, it's not the figure that is all important, it's whether you are happy with it and to use it as a bench mark for further improvements
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: Locost ST170

    YOu do need an ecu that specifically caters for the Vvt, I had it set up before with the shift light switching it on, but it have the full hit, and advance it the max 60degree, and that gave 169bhp. Think the max it advances now is mid to late 40degrees, shame dynoman isn't around, he'd explain it better.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Is this engine with the STD inlet plenum?

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Yes, locked off on The short tract.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    How much do these ECU's run to cost wise?

    ATB Dan.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Quote Originally Posted by scutter View Post
    How much do these ECU's run to cost wise?

    ATB Dan.
    Wondered how long it would take you to ask
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: Locost ST170

    YOu do need an ecu that specifically caters for the Vvt, I had it set up before with the shift light switching it on, but it have the full hit, and advance it the max 60degree, and that gave 169bhp. Think the max it advances now is mid to late 40degrees, shame dynoman isn't around, he'd explain it better.

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    Re: Locost ST170

    Dynoman is your man for the mbe one!

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    Re: Locost ST170

    So is the difference between the first and last power curve you posted purely exhaust cam timing and re tuning the fuel map?

    Did you alter the inlet cam timing at all or was it the same for all power curves?

    The exhaust cam timing does not swing 40 or 60 degrees, more like 10 to 20 crankshaft degrees which would be 5 to 10 camshaft degrees

    Regardless of the power figure the shape of the torque and power curves look good, must be a nice engine to drive, lots of mid range torque, a good result
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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