Engine swap crossflow to 4AGE

[keg]

I was thinking of either splashing out and buying a new 1700 xflow or doing an engine swap to a 4AGE.

What is needed to do the swap to the twin cam engine, i have read a few stories that they are based on the BDA engine

What are your thoughts?

[Fridgeman]

are you meaning the twin cam toyota or a lotus twin cam,,the later is a simple swop,dont know about the toyota,bda similar block to x/flow.

[fullathepipe]

I know I'm not really helpin much but the 4age engine is a cracker! I drove an ae86 Toyota for close to three years and gave that engine some proper abuse! Never let me down and was fit to bounce the limiter in all gears! Kinda miss it!

[keg]

are you meaning the twin cam toyota or a lotus twin cam,,the later is a simple swop,dont know about the toyota,bda similar block to x/flow.

The toyota engine

Its gota a 1600 xflow in a min just want a change n getmore power out a xflow or go toyota

[keg]

I know I'm not really helpin much but the 4age engine is a cracker! I drove an ae86 Toyota for close to three years and gave that engine some proper abuse! Never let me down and was fit to bounce the limiter in all gears! Kinda miss it!

Yer needs to as reliable as the xflow lol least there is some god news about them

[105Ian]

Have a look on 105speed as there are a few people on there fitting them to Anglia's may give you an idea of the pros and cons of the engine .

Ben Morley of Retroford magazine has fitted one in his Anglia and is soon going to do a feature about the conversion .

[jonny]

pm oddy on here he is putting one in a mk1 might have some bits for sale to.

[freddy686868]

A guy i know rallies an a86 and his engine has a 421 exhaust and air filter with an omex ecu it revs to 10k! and is pushing 183 bhp and it gets better his nick name is mr reliable .

[Fridgeman]

they have been fitted in lots of top race cars for years as a good alternative to a BDA.

[mjr]

Hi, I run an AE86 tarmac rally car with a Ford based gearbox (Quaife type 9) so essentially it is the same as you want to do.
Engine wise there are few 4AGE choices. AE86 / MR2 mk1 engine, relatively easy to fit if you are using the standard inlet plenum (faces the right way) this is the least powerful 4AGE.
Later 'smallport' engine, found in front wheel drive AE92 Corolla. More power and better torque curve. Needs inlet plenum modifying to face the right way.
20v vvti the most powerful 4AGE.
A bellhousing is commercially available to mate a Ford gearbox to the engine and you can use a Toyota clutch cover with an
MGB clutch plate. Be careful with flywheel sizes as there are two availble on the 4AGE 200mm and 215mm. The MGB plate is 200mm
Just get the Toyota release bearing carrier bored out to fit the Ford 'box.

[M11rf]

Buy a plane ticket and come and have a go in mine Keg

I love the 4age, as said can take plenty of abuse and still carries on... I am not so sure that the 4AGE is a good idea in the UK due to how much its gunna cost to get it in the car and finished.
I would have thought you can fit a Duratec or Zetec 2.0 for round about the same price?

[exboyracer]

The sump is the main issue in an Escort as it's originally front bowl in the Toyota. Obviously this is not an issue in an Anglia.

[M11rf]

Both my 4AGEs are in Escorts, and they are still front bowl.
The bowl just needs modifying to clear the steering rack. Which you can DIY as it is made from steel.

[evodave]

A friend of mine here in Ireland has a Richard Macer 20v version in his rally car......209bhp from a 1600cc & it pulls from nothing....a great wee engine in either 16v or 20v form !!

Just the sump thats front bowl that may give you probs but I'm sure theres people here that can post up some pics of what is required to modify.

Get a topic up shwing how you progress !!

[keg]

Buy a plane ticket and come and have a go in mine Keg

I love the 4age, as said can take plenty of abuse and still carries on... I am not so sure that the 4AGE is a good idea in the UK due to how much its gunna cost to get it in the car and finished.
I would have thought you can fit a Duratec or Zetec 2.0 for round about the same price?

Ha ha i would love to come out and test it

The engines are avalible over here tho iv had a quick look around. Ill be contacting you alot more for parts

[keg]

A friend of mine here in Ireland has a Richard Macer 20v version in his rally car......209bhp from a 1600cc & it pulls from nothing....a great wee engine in either 16v or 20v form !!

Just the sump thats front bowl that may give you probs but I'm sure theres people here that can post up some pics of what is required to modify.

Get a topic up shwing how you progress !!

Yer will have to see some pics of others inside the cars.

Iv got a resto thread at the min its been on the road the last year just feel like a change

[freddy686868]

they have been fitted in lots of top race cars for years as a good alternative to a BDA.

hell of a lot cheaper too!

[neilm]

Ben at Retro Ford has just had their 4AGE Project Car on our Lakes Tour last weekend and before going it was set up on the rollers and made 136bhp, which is basically a standard motor on 45's and one of our exhaust manifolds.

It drove from Redhill to Appleby, toured the Lakes including Wrynose & Hardnott Passes, and drove home and on the return leg returned 40 to the gallon.

And when he nailed it it sounded just like a BDA, awesome thing for the money.

[keg]

Ben at Retro Ford has just had their 4AGE Project Car on our Lakes Tour last weekend and before going it was set up on the rollers and made 136bhp, which is basically a standard motor on 45's and one of our exhaust manifolds.

It drove from Redhill to Appleby, toured the Lakes including Wrynose & Hardnott Passes, and drove home and on the return leg returned 40 to the gallon.

And when he nailed it it sounded just like a BDA, awesome thing for the money.

I have just been on 105 speed looking at that post looks like im swinging more and more to the 4AGE then

[oddy]

Hi mate, Im putting one in a mk1 Escort, Im using a type 9 gearbox with a bellhousing conversion, clutch is a TRD cover and a 200mm paddle plate.
the engine will be chassis mounted and the sump will be made when the engine is the right position, Exhaust manifold is a janspeed ae86, I have trial fitted this and it will fit the escort engine bay, I am running carbs and a modified pinto distributor, forged pistons, wacky cams, worked head should be good for about 180 BHP and 9000Rpm!
Lastly a couple of pics,



Cheers
James

[Retro-ed]

4AGE-s are awesome little engines!!

Best thing I ever did was to ditch the Pinto and put a 20v in the escort! very tempted to put a 16v in my mk1.

Heres my Mk2..

[neilm]

Modified Pinto Distributor ? that sounds interesting, got any pics ?

We just use a HyperPak from New Zealand which turns the original dizzy from a trigger to a traditional distributor by giving it an electronic advance curve.

E-bay - around £140 mark

[neilm]

Keg

One thing to point out, while we're all getting excited about this budget bda is that if you get an engine from a RWD Corolla then you are cooking on gas, its designed to be RWD.

However, if you get an engine from a FWD Corolla GTi or an MR2 then you have a problem, you need to sort the water out.

Originally we converted our FWD engines to RWD using the genuine AE86 parts as oriignally they were all readily available from Toyota, but as time's gone on crucial parts have been discontinued making an off the shelf kit difficult.

We are in the process of a complete re-think on the water side of things, however, I have seen lash ups, particularly from Australia when they have just bolted the MR2 remote stat to the inner wing or piped it up into the bottom hose and left it hanging. Depends on how neat you want it all to be really.

Just things that you need to investigate a little further

[keg]

Keg

One thing to point out, while we're all getting excited about this budget bda is that if you get an engine from a RWD Corolla then you are cooking on gas, its designed to be RWD.

However, if you get an engine from a FWD Corolla GTi or an MR2 then you have a problem, you need to sort the water out.

Originally we converted our FWD engines to RWD using the genuine AE86 parts as oriignally they were all readily available from Toyota, but as time's gone on crucial parts have been discontinued making an off the shelf kit difficult.

We are in the process of a complete re-think on the water side of things, however, I have seen lash ups, particularly from Australia when they have just bolted the MR2 remote stat to the inner wing or piped it up into the bottom hose and left it hanging. Depends on how neat you want it all to be really.

Just things that you need to investigate a little further

Thanks for that neil yer im not in a huge rush........well its going to lakes next year lol

I am going to hold out and look for the RWD type then.

That was my next concern as the distributer cause i dont want to run an ECU so this is possible to still do with electronic eginition?

Cheers keg

PS u going to Crich this year?

[keg]

4AGE-s are awesome little engines!!

Best thing I ever did was to ditch the Pinto and put a 20v in the escort! very tempted to put a 16v in my mk1.

Heres my Mk2..

Thanks for the pics i think im going to try and get the 16v rather than the 20v

[keg]

Hi mate, Im putting one in a mk1 Escort, Im using a type 9 gearbox with a bellhousing conversion, clutch is a TRD cover and a 200mm paddle plate.
the engine will be chassis mounted and the sump will be made when the engine is the right position, Exhaust manifold is a janspeed ae86, I have trial fitted this and it will fit the escort engine bay, I am running carbs and a modified pinto distributor, forged pistons, wacky cams, worked head should be good for about 180 BHP and 9000Rpm!
Lastly a couple of pics,



Cheers
James

Thanks for the pic and the info over xmas you will probally get a few question off me if that is ok?

[oddy]

Yeah, no problem mate, cheers

[neilm]

Hi Keg

Yes mate going to Crich.

The HyperPak from New Zealand just connects to a power source and the other three wires go to the original dizzy, from what Morley was saying it couldnt have been easier.

Set the static timing at 15 degrees and away you go.

[keg]

Hi Keg

Yes mate going to Crich.

The HyperPak from New Zealand just connects to a power source and the other three wires go to the original dizzy, from what Morley was saying it couldnt have been easier.

Set the static timing at 15 degrees and away you go.

I should be there too inthe escort look out for a ginger curly afro lol thats me

Thats good news if its that easy

Cheers keg

[mjr]

I know where there is a used RM Sport bellhousing (the best !) for sale if you need one. Let me know and I will pass on the details.
He may also have a starter motor to suit.

[mjr]

To Oddy....
can you tell me where you got the 200mm paddle clutch plate from please, was it a special or is it a
fitment for another car ? thanks

[oddy]

To Oddy....
can you tell me where you got the 200mm paddle clutch plate from please, was it a special or is it a
fitment for another car ? thanks

Hi there, Fensport do them or Ap racing, cheers James

[jonboy]

How much is your 4AGE manifold Neil ?

My mate runs a Starlet with a 4AGE for sprints, great engine, takes every last bit of abuse he gives it ! He works at Fensport so if you ever need something ask to speak to Dave Brooks

[neilm]

Exhaust manifold is £245+VAT which fits Anglias & Cortinas, probably 100E's etc

Inlet manifold for DCOE's is £99+VAT

[M11rf]

Take a look her Keg for some more info on the engine...

http://forums.club4ag.com/zeroforum?id=12

There is a long thread on there regarding carbing a 4AG. Ignition, etc...

Alternatively, throttle bodies are do able on a budget

[jonboy]

Exhaust manifold is £245+VAT which fits Anglias & Cortinas, probably 100E's etc

Inlet manifold for DCOE's is £99+VAT

Have you got a pic of the exhaust manifold ?

What sort of gains have you seen on a 4AGE using one, the engine in question is running mild cams and a set of 45's, ignition system is a modified Ford unit but he is looking to change that.

[freddy686868]

I am lead to believe that the 20v engines came with bodies standard.

[jonboy]

I am lead to believe that the 20v engines came with bodies standard.

Yes they do

[evodave]

Yes they do

I think you'll find that some of the Jap tuners have conversion manifolds to fit throttle bodies to earlier 16v engines too !!

A complete 20v would be a good way to go if you want to keep it standard & hve good power !

[jonboy]

There are manifolds out there to do the conversion, could use those of some bike ones though.

The issue with my mates is that he wanted to fit a 20v but I don't see it as being that much more capable that the 16v and with some good bits the 16v is bound to give better results, they seem reliable enough but lets say you want 175hp from the 16v how much do you need to spend ?

The other thought is to ditch the 4A and go for a beams engine but I think I'd still rather he threw his money at what he has.