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Thread: budget pinto tinkering

  1. #41
    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    i noticed that after idling it seemed to bog a bit when reved and given how well it starts from cold i suspect its rich ( still not been out of garage ) so today i checked fuel pressure - 5psi on std pump. should be ok i guess but i fitted a regulator and reduced to 3psi. it now runs cleaner at idle, mixture screws more responsive - i set these for best idle. they didnt require = adjustment, no4 wanted more adjustment that the rest - all leaner - but all different - however it now runs nice down to 700 rpm whereas it was lumpy at 1000 on dgav.
    maybe just needle valve alone or maybe float a little high too ?

    i run breather lines to catch tank so just need to mount/ pipe fuel regulator now at i can try it up the road. ( my petrol king has had the mounts cut off )

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    however it now runs nice down to 700 rpm whereas it was lumpy at 1000 on dgav.
    yes that sound about right

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  4. #43
    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    update
    drove around 30 miles today and im impressed with the "out of the box" manners. and it sounds which is the important bit

    it did develop a spit/pop when cruising on v/light load at around 3000 rpm , not sure if this is being out of sync or progression issue ...........
    i dont think it was there originally but not sure.

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Try richening idle mixture a little, if screws are too far out maybe try a richer idle jet.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Try richening idle mixture a little, if screws are too far out maybe try a richer idle jet.
    i re did the idle mixtures when i got back and one was too lean ( odd as i set them recently) but i didnt think that they would be having an effect at cruise. not tried it since.

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Getting idle jet sizing and mixture adjustment is crucial for a smooth transition to main circuit, when you hit the right spot the smoothness is very noticeable, i managed to get and Ht1e pulling smoothly from 2000rpm (light throttle) by paying alot of attention to idle - main

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    about time i updated this.
    it has been running and driving very well to be fair with the only issues being a slight hesitation off idle that seems to have got worse with time and an annoying pop back when cruising at light throttle that seems to happen more after a good few miles each trip.
    so thid week i replaced the idle jets too see if i could improve it further.
    i had 55F8 fitted from the off and changed to 55F9 thinking that it was lean due to the pop - bad move as hesitation off idle was much worse , i had a quick drive but it was obviously worse so i didnt test the pop at cruise issue.
    today i went the other way and fitted 50F8 - immediatly the hesitation was gone and pickup is sharper with no fear of prodding it. cold start up was noticably more fussy but thats to be expected and its now what i expected originally as tbh its been startling too well.
    not been out the garage yet but i am looking forward to next test drive and im interested to see if its improved the pop

    has anyone used any of the budget end afr gauges ? a quick ebay search sees some for around £170 or is a feed to laptop software much better ?
    cant help thinking thats my next required toy

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Funny to read you have done exact the same as all others, increasing jets because it pops. Most often the pop is there because the fuel drops are not mixed enough with air, not willing to fire. Increasing the (idle) jets only make it worse, decreasing the (idle) air jet even more.

    Possible your pop will now be gone be I always have to rework the carburetors to get a complete solution. And it starts with building the carb back up from scratch.

    Please be sure you start with a very good spark. So important with "modern" fuel.

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    funny really, after reworking a head and fitting a cam i just fixed what you were trying to cure by going from 55F8 to 55F9!

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    about time i updated this.
    it has been running and driving very well to be fair with the only issues being a slight hesitation off idle that seems to have got worse with time and an annoying pop back when cruising at light throttle that seems to happen more after a good few miles each trip.
    so thid week i replaced the idle jets too see if i could improve it further.
    i had 55F8 fitted from the off and changed to 55F9 thinking that it was lean due to the pop - bad move as hesitation off idle was much worse , i had a quick drive but it was obviously worse so i didnt test the pop at cruise issue.
    today i went the other way and fitted 50F8 - immediatly the hesitation was gone and pickup is sharper with no fear of prodding it. cold start up was noticably more fussy but thats to be expected and its now what i expected originally as tbh its been startling too well.
    not been out the garage yet but i am looking forward to next test drive and im interested to see if its improved the pop

    has anyone used any of the budget end afr gauges ? a quick ebay search sees some for around £170 or is a feed to laptop software much better ?
    cant help thinking thats my next required toy
    By the time you take your exhaust off, drill it, get a lambda boss welded, buy a lambda sensor and a wideband afr reader, you'll be down a bit in your pocket.
    Save your coin and take it to Nutts in Goytre.
    Decent old school lads down there.

  12. #51
    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    i can weld the boss on myself , possibly in situ as i have a pit but i agree it does add up ................ but i like to tinker
    i will be taking a drive over there for a chat tho anyway as john (rx8 adapters) also recommends them
    to be honest tho i may look to mod the dizzy next
    and top priority is paint my cam cover as it looks cack

    onyd - my carb knowledge / experiance is limited to cleaning and service kits im afraid so i have to make best of "out the box " as do most i guess.
    Graham - these are chinese FAJS 45s - 5 progression holes - which may or may not have a slightly different requirement ?
    Last edited by alladdin; 17-06-2019 at 22:25.

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    The basic trick to start with is getting the throttle plates at the correct starting point for your engine. I can machine plates with 0,5° steps. Biggest issue is, you can only start to change once you have start testing and found out it is not working (unless you do a lot almost the same configuration engines as I do).

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    I have an innovate one fitted, works really well.

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    budget pinto tinkering

    U can add data logging with the innovative version too for revs afr temps etc if u like tinkering


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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    another update - interesting but frustrating
    so last off going from 55f8 to 50f8 eliminated slight hesitation and had it spot on under no load in garage. looking forward to test drive.............

    bag of shite drove very poorly at lower revs and a pain in traffic town - hunting popping and crap till revs up.
    so swapped to 50f9 while out. same symptoms but much less so. back to original 55f8 and stll best so far.............
    i was surprised that i had similar symptoms with 50f9 as 50f8 ??
    so where next 60f8 ? 55f6 ?
    i can try f16 emulsions just for the hell of it

    what do the experts think ? ( not expecting magic settings just theory of which direction to go)

    i checked timing - 16deg at idle no vac.
    Last edited by alladdin; 23-06-2019 at 18:50.

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Are you currently on F11's? at what revs is it an issue? 16deg at idle is alot of ignition advance, i only run 14 with an Ht1e cam and 1100rpm idle. Have you tried changing mains?? does it drive ok up to say 2500 then start playing up?

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    in my experience with a fairly std engine + dizzy just with vac disconnected 12-13 degrees @ 1000rpm is about right. what size chokes you got? it could be they are huge, and reducing them will bring the mains online earlier, which may sort some of your drivability issues, with a 285 can you dont need or want bigger than 36's. out of interest what size mains?

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Are you currently on F11's? at what revs is it an issue? 16deg at idle is alot of ignition advance, i only run 14 with an Ht1e cam and 1100rpm idle. Have you tried changing mains?? does it drive ok up to say 2500 then start playing up?
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    in my experience with a fairly std engine + dizzy just with vac disconnected 12-13 degrees @ 1000rpm is about right. what size chokes you got? it could be they are huge, and reducing them will bring the mains online earlier, which may sort some of your drivability issues, with a 285 can you dont need or want bigger than 36's. out of interest what size mains?
    i thought the advance may be a little high hence the mention, reducing it will drop idle so alter butterfly position in relation to progression - i will go that way first and repeat trials.

    eric - yes f11 as you suggested , mains are 150 and 180 airs. chokes are 36.
    head is self ported , valves std size modded, skimmed 1.25mm and 285 cam.

    the issues are a slight fluffy stutter on first part throttle opening ( could live with tbh) and an occasional pop back at cruise 2k to 3k rpm light throttle ( bit of a pain on journey)

    im sure that it was spot on the first drive out tho untill about 20m in ????
    Last edited by alladdin; 23-06-2019 at 20:25.

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    i
    im sure that it was spot on the first drive out tho untill about 20m in ????
    jets can take a while to properly "wet" up so often go a bit richer after some use

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    these are chinese FAJS 45s -
    Good luck !

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    so where next 60f8 ? 55f6 ?
    55F6

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Quote Originally Posted by Miniliteman View Post
    Good luck !



    55F6
    im relativly pleased to this point if im honest that may change of course but its not like i wasnt warned
    cheers for the suggestion - any comment on what im seeing so far ? its a learning exercise this end

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Sounds like an idle / main issue for sure, id try going a little richer on main jet and see what happens, but only if you have the jets, wouldnt buy loads until you take it on the dyno, an AFR guage is what you need for road tuning as youd see exactly whats happening.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    budget pinto tinkering

    I do have 60f6 to try
    I have some 110 mains I could drill at a later date.
    I get the jets direct so not a £ issue.


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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    ok, timing was a red herring - i was rushing and looked strait down, when i got a strait shot at the marks from 11 oclock it was 12 on marks ( gunsen adjusted to tdc at 10).
    fitted the 60f6 rich at idle but ran well once idle mixture adjusted - reving cleanly no load .
    switched it off and opened garage up, chatted 2 min, started it back up and immediatly fluffy off idle under no load and same when driving
    back to 55f8 and ok again. (after re do idle mixture)

    mains checked - 145 - i would like to try a size up but dont have any at present. if not i will try a size down for effect.
    i noticed a slight difference too between fajs F11 and weber F11 so will try those too.
    interesting learning curve but frustrating as results dont seem to always stack up..........

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Ain't called 'Dark Arts' for nothing!

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    budget pinto tinkering

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    Ain't called 'Dark Arts' for nothing!
    Very true.
    Luckily we have a few here with more than a little experience but you certainly can't rely on a book rather than years of experience 👍


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    budget pinto tinkering

    Why not just book it in for tune,
    Toby @ willfield motors abercynon is the man to see

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  30. #68
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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Buy yourself some jet drills, i use jets that are way too small for the engine and drill them out, only prob is that you cant in 0.05mm increments, only 0.1mm

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    model shop shops sell packs of very small drills some of them go up in very small steps.

    you can also reduce the size by soldering up the jet and redrilling, but id only suggest that for mains
    Last edited by Graham; 28-06-2019 at 09:29.

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    I got decent HSS 1.3 - 2mm drills online, jewelers ones, just need to make sure you drill straight.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    i have the drills, and i have already thought about drilling the 110 out as small anyway , it just wasnt in my head while typing up the last update.

    regarding RR, yes correct although i knew a chap that paid a lot for a shoddy job once in abercynon ( thought it was tommy ??) i may well try knotts at some point but i like to play.

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    If you are reaming jets out which I am not a particular big fan of don't forget to keep a record or you or the Rolling road operator won't know where you are.

    Mossleys was the best place to go in Wales for a RR session and the owner use to post on this forum in years gone by. All the Welsh Road Rally Boys took their cars there.

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    when i drill jets i always file or grind the size off,

    if you have jet drills or gauges its not hard to work out what size they are.

    and yes i will agree the accuracy of the holes isnt great but bigger is still richer, and who says the engine actually wants a main jet bang on 1.45mm anyway it might be happier with 1.47 anyway

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    Idont ream them, just drill, used to do them in a small model makers lathe to get absolute straight but now i just do by hand given they are so soft and easy to drill straight.

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    Re: budget pinto tinkering

    i have several hand chucks to hold the tiny drills, but quite often it just nip the drill in a vice and gently wind the jet onto it by hand, the brass is soft enough they drill out easily

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