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Thread: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

  1. #81
    Spanner Monkey FrEdOoOo's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Absolutely brilliant!!!

    Fantastic job mate

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Thats well Impressive mate well done!

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User merp0's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Well done Dave, perhaps you could help me with a 'squirt my Pinto' in the future

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    good job there cant wait to get mine running now

  5. #85
    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Thanks for all the positive comments chaps

    Well I took it out for its first drive since the conversion yesterday. It started out badly, the car didn't even have enough power to get out of the workshop!
    The fuel map was ridiculously lean, I had to seriously richen it up to get it to move!

    Since then I've been driving, datalogging and revising the fuel map and it's getting there. Found a bit of a problem, in that I've got the controller set to deliver two squirts of fuel per engine cycle, unfortunately this means that at idle and very low throttle openings it's only opening the injectors for 2 milliseconds or less. This is bad because it takes 1 ms for the injector to open, and also means that even the smallest step changes in injector opening times are relatively large in percentage terms.
    So today I'll have to set it to 1 squirt per engine cycle, which will probably mess up all the table adjustments I made yesterday, but no one said this would be easy

    Ignition wise I've roughed out a map which is basically a copy of a fast road dizzy with vac advance, with a few little tweaks. It seems to be working OK but I won't be messing with it until the rolling road tuning day which I've booked for 5th April.

    Here's a couple of pics of the almost complete setup. Still need to sort out some filters, I might need to swap the trumpets for some smaller diameter ones to give me enough space. I'll need to get a revised strut brace bar made as well.



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  6. #86
    Pole Position Decade Plus User M11rf's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Give me a should it you need some Trumpets...

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...STRK:MESELX:IT

    i can get different diameters... Cheaper for TS members.

    I bet you are well happy with the progress

  7. #87
    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Thanks Mark, yes I am rather chuffed - not as chuffed as my mate though, when I took it round to his place yesterday the top of his head nearly came off
    Could you send me a PM with what you can get? All the better if they haven't got 'happy racing' etched on them
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  8. #88
    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    On Tuesday I visted AB Garage in Hawarden to set the fuelling and ignition maps up on their rolling road.

    AB advised we go for 13.5:1 AFRs across the board, and 12.5:1 under full power. I'll post the map files later in case they are of use to someone.

    Anyway, the result of all this work is 125bhp at the wheels at 6500 rpm and a car that is much more responsive and enjoyable to drive!
    Factor in 18% drivetrain loss and we're talking about over 145hp at the fly which I'm very happy about

    Here's the graph, ignore the torque figures as the run was done in 3rd gear.



    I just need to knock up a filter now, plans are afoot and parts have been ordered...
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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  9. #89
    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    The comparison between carb & dizzy and mapped igntion & fuel injection :



    The carb & dizzy is in the fainter lines.
    You can see that the carb is pretty good in the mid-range, but higher up the RPMs the injected setup pulls ahead. What you can't see is lower down the RPM range the carb wouldn't tolerate WOT at all, hence no line on the graph!
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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    World Champion Decade Plus User caprimentle's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    fantastic result if you dont mind asking or you would rather pm me in private, how much do you reckon the whole conversion has cost you?
    its not dead till it's buried!


    T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"

  11. #91
    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Ah... well this might sound like a cop-out, but I couldn't really say for sure!
    I bought the TBs years ago (2007) for another project which never happened, and I really can't remember how much I paid for them. Same goes for the MS.
    The manifold was far more than I anticipated at £300.
    Rough estimate I reckon it's probably been the thick end of a grand to do it all but you could do it for less I reckon if you really tried hard
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  12. #92
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    nice one, 18% transmission losses are prob a bit high though, with a lot more power and massive slicks i only loose 15% on mine, that said its stil a great result, well done

  13. #93
    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Thanks Graham
    http://escort.accelerator.org
    1968 MK1 Escort 1300GT
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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    nice result
    and of course you cant quantify drivability.
    what was their view on mapping the ms ? are they used to the ms system ? how long did mapping take ?
    lots of Q's

  15. #95
    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Well, the garage was familiar with MS tuning but I actually did the adjustments under their watchful eye.
    It was simply a matter of holding the engine in a particular load cell with the rollers, then adjusting the fuelling till it reached the correct ratio.
    Their approach to setting the ignition timing was a bit less scientific, based mainly on their experience of tuning crossflows in the past.
    We took a bit of advance out in some areas where he thought it was prone to detonate then did a full power run, removed 3 degrees of advance and tried it again. We found that we'd lost power so next we put the 3 degrees back in and added a further 3 degrees of advance, which netted a nice power gain.
    At this stage we had 40 degrees of advance at the top of the rev range and both of us were nervous of adding more, so we decided to pack it in!

    The process took about 3.5 hours in total, including breaks to let the car cool down a bit.

    I must say that I have been very impressed with the Autotune function on megatune, providing you set the o2 targets properly it can produce a pretty good map.
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    with regards to the timing thats pretty much how you need to do it,

    on the smaller throttle openings you can do the same as you did with the mixture hold the engine under load and adjust the timing to get highest power,

    at the bigger throttles do a power run, add or take out a bit of timing do another power run and lay the graphs on top of each other then you can see exactly where it did or didnt want the advance, adjust the map and go again.

    TBH 40 degrees advance at the very to of an x/flow map doesnt sound scary to me, in fact it sounds right! the thing with management is you will oten see very big adavnce figs because unlike a dizzy you can take advance in and out right through the rev range

  17. #97
    World Champion Decade Plus User caprimentle's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    makes me want to go fuel injection even more now!!! i'd happily pay that for that result ..... well done fella
    its not dead till it's buried!


    T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"

  18. #98
    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Cheers guys

    Here are the maps as they currently stand



    And here is the current tune (.msq) file

    https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B6E7k...nload&hl=en_GB
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to exboyracer For This Useful Post:


  20. #99
    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    I should probably add that the VE table is for 260cc injectors @ 2 squirts / cycle.

    Also for anyone who tried to download the tune file and failed, it was due to the sharing setting on Google docs - I've set it to 'public' now so it should work!
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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  22. #100
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Cheers for posting the map files mate

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Nice one

    Now get a video of it up so we can all hear how good it sounds!

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    Racer Decade Plus User wildo105e's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Well done fella

  25. #103
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Top work done there mate I'll be looking out for you (well the car as I don't know what you look like lol) as I live in Ellesmere Port so not too many miles away. Great result with the rollers, Ade is very knowledgeable with the set up and great to have by your side if your punching in the figures. I've used AB garage to tune my rally cars for a few years and he'll always tell you as it is hence my car currently running good safe power (nova rally car)

    Well done
    When I grow up I will have a MK1 Escort

    I must be all growed up now then and paying for it!

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    World Champion Decade Plus User exboyracer's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Gorilla1Q, ahhh a local bloke

    I was talking to a fella with a gorgeous white MK1 'tina on black superlites from round your way last year sometime.

    Yeah I've been very impressed with Ade every time I've been to AB, half of me wants to tell the world how good they are but the other half wants to keep them our little secret
    A six week waiting time is enough anyway!
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    That's some great info, thanks heaps for posting your tune! A couple of quick questions -
    Any chance you can post the AFR targets you used for VEAL? I can't seem to find them in the tune you put up
    Is there any reason you've gone for Alpha-N rather than Speed-Density?

    Thanks again and really well done with your setup!

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Quote Originally Posted by noisymime View Post
    Is there any reason you've gone for Alpha-N rather than Speed-Density?
    Ignore me, brain wasn't in gear and I'd forgotten you're running ITBs

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Quote Originally Posted by exboyracer View Post
    Gorilla1Q, ahhh a local bloke

    I was talking to a fella with a gorgeous white MK1 'tina on black superlites from round your way last year sometime.

    Yeah I've been very impressed with Ade every time I've been to AB, half of me wants to tell the world how good they are but the other half wants to keep them our little secret
    A six week waiting time is enough anyway!
    Yea I've seen a 'tina a few times this year already sounds like a guy called Mark not had chance to catch up with him for a chat yet! Theres another guy by where a mate has just moved in with 2 mk2 escorts and a mk1 I'll soon be introducing myself to him aswell

    Oh and your secret is safe with me
    When I grow up I will have a MK1 Escort

    I must be all growed up now then and paying for it!

  30. #108
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Quote Originally Posted by noisymime View Post
    That's some great info, thanks heaps for posting your tune! A couple of quick questions -
    Any chance you can post the AFR targets you used for VEAL?
    The AFR targets were 13.5:1 across the board and 12:1 under WOT.

    Thanks for the compliments everybody
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Still working on this thing!
    I made a big wing baffled sump for the engine as I was suffering a bit from surge last year with the std one


    Onto the biggest headache, trying to get an air filter to fit!
    There was no way I could get a panel filter onto the end of the trumpets due to no.4 being very close to the bulkhead, and even trumpet socks were out.
    So I resorted to a bit of lateral thinking!
    I had to blank off the existing port on the fuel regulator for the pressure gauge as it was in the way, so I drilled and tapped another hole further around
    Add some 45 degree alloy tubing, carefully trimmed to length, and some brackets made up to suit


    The filter base in place, with the air temperature sensor and idle air hose mounted on it


    And the filter case itself in place


    Pretty much all done now


    Clearance from the filter top to the underside of the bonnet is tight!


    I just need to find some short 50mm bore trumpets now to go inside the airbox.
    Last edited by exboyracer; 16-04-2011 at 11:04.
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Looking good mate

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    nice bit of fabrication work thier, looks good
    its not dead till it's buried!


    T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Just tidying up the loose ends now!

    Firstly, I could not find any trumpets that would really suit my installation, so I resorted to making some myself out of off-cuts from the alloy tubing I made the intakes from.
    I formed the radius for the bellmouths with nothing more fancy than a round headed hammer and a piece of thick wall tubing held in a vice as the hammer form.
    I'm pretty sure they're not the ideal aerodynamic shape but they're better than nothing, I hope!


    I've been struggling with the join between the head and exhaust manifold leaking, due to the size of the ports standard gaskets don't last long at all and exhaust paste has only been a little better. So I decided to try making my own gaskets out of 1.2mm copper sheet.


    Unfortunately, I still had a blow with these new gaskets, so after a bit of thinking I decided to try adding copper rings to both sides of the gaskets to get more of a crush effect. The rings were made from 1mm copper salvaged from a piece of old twin & earth mains cable, held in place with a dab of solder.


    Finally I had to convert the rev counter as the old inductive setup would not work with the megasquirt.
    I bought a cheapo 52mm stepper motor rev counter off ebay and mounted it to the original MK1 tacho's face and rear shell. It's wired to one of the spare outpus on the MS which is configured to act as a tacho output. I can confirm that it works well and is more accurate that the standard tacho ever was!



    Now I'm just waiting on a custom strut brace to be made and it'll be all done
    Last edited by exboyracer; 29-04-2011 at 09:11.
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  35. #113
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Great Job mate fairplay nice tacho mod too..

  36. #114
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    good thinking on the gaskets and tacho

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    liking all of that, them trumpets look good and like the genius of the tacho mod, but most of all love the gasket idea, might have to steel that
    its not dead till it's buried!


    T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    great thinking link to cheapy tacho please, also what mods are needed to the ms for a tacho o/p ?

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    This is the tacho I used
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUTOGAUGE-CLEA...item53e74d4557

    You'll notice that it reads to 10K rpm, but the MK1 dial is only calibrated to 7k, right? Well if you tell the tacho it's connected to a 3 cylinder engine it reads just about right!

    The mods to the MS are simple enough, it's just a case of using one of the spare outputs - I can't remember which one off the top of my head, but it's listed in the software.
    You just need to add a transistor driver between the output from the ECU and the outside world in exactly the same way as with the fan driver circuit.
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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  40. #118
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    top work on the tacho, I had my mk1 revcounter converted by speedy cables and the MS already had the output setup as i requested this on its build. I still had to mess about a bit by adding a live supply to the ouput with a resistor in but works a treat now.

    More great info here
    Last edited by wildo105e; 30-04-2011 at 22:02.

  41. #119
    Pole Position Decade Plus User M11rf's Avatar

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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Top Work... But we didnt expect anything less

  42. #120
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    Re: Project 'squirt my crossflow'

    Good effort! If you still find you have problems with the gaskets then just use rtv silicone on the head face. I used the copper coloured loctite on mine after the first set of gaskets blew after a week and never had a problem!

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