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Thread: 4AGE Engine mounts

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    4AGE Engine mounts

    Hi all anyone got any drawing of the engine mounts they have made for putting the engine into a mk1 escort?

    saves me alot of work if i could grab a drawing, its connecting to a std x-member

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Hi Keg

    You can buy the plates that bolt to the block pre-cut from RAW Engineering, this should make the job a little easier.

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Thanks neil

    The engine has been sat in my shed a few weeks now and i thought i better make a start with the car so is ready for next year.

    I found a picture of a complete kit but didnt know where it was from

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Sorry, can't help Keg.

    Mine were hand made with the engine sat in the bay... BUT, the cross member had already been modified.

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    No worries mate just would of saved me a bit of work im sure someone has got a drawing

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Anyone?

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    I read this thread a while ago but you got me thinking so I held off from posting til i had something decent to say

    I'm picking up my 4age tomorrow so will start having a measure up to decide how best to mount it, anyone know how close ae86 mounts are to fitting?

    I was thinking of making an adapter plate to put between either crossflow or pinto engine mounts and the engine, but only an idea. Or weld the plates directly to crossflow mounts with a few modifications.

    Have you considered chassis mounting? Grp4 Fabrications do a kit specially for the 4age.

    Also the mounts you have seen, were they these?


    They are for mounting a 4age into a startlet, from dmb performance. Could work but dont fancy spending 250 euros and look easy enough to make No dimensions on them though.

    If not I'll have a think and do some sketches and measurements over the next few weeks if you can wait that long

    To be honest I've spent over 2 years researching the 4age conversion and the only mounts to a standard xmember i've seen are M11rf's and the only other decent pictures of the mounting is retro-ed's mk2 off driftworks but his was chassis mounted.

    The engine mounts seem the hardest part to find information for, for some reason....

    I think we could do with a seperate 4AGE conversion area in the technical section too

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    EDIT: Just found the same mounts for $160 from technotoytuning

    Problem solved if they fit...
    Last edited by Mk1_Deano; 30-11-2010 at 19:38.

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mk1_Deano View Post
    I read this thread a while ago but you got me thinking so I held off from posting til i had something decent to say

    I'm picking up my 4age tomorrow so will start having a measure up to decide how best to mount it, anyone know how close ae86 mounts are to fitting?

    I was thinking of making an adapter plate to put between either crossflow or pinto engine mounts and the engine, but only an idea. Or weld the plates directly to crossflow mounts with a few modifications.

    Have you considered chassis mounting? Grp4 Fabrications do a kit specially for the 4age.

    Also the mounts you have seen, were they these?


    They are for mounting a 4age into a startlet, from dmb performance. Could work but dont fancy spending 250 euros and look easy enough to make No dimensions on them though.

    If not I'll have a think and do some sketches and measurements over the next few weeks if you can wait that long

    To be honest I've spent over 2 years researching the 4age conversion and the only mounts to a standard xmember i've seen are M11rf's and the only other decent pictures of the mounting is retro-ed's mk2 off driftworks but his was chassis mounted.

    The engine mounts seem the hardest part to find information for, for some reason....

    I think we could do with a seperate 4AGE conversion area in the technical section too
    Hi mate thanks for getting back to me regarding the mounts yer Marks is the only car i have seen pictures of where its in the car i dont want to put the engine in and get it too high so would like someones mounts that have already been proven.

    As you I have trauled the internet looking for answers with no luck.

    The do look quite smart, the ones i seen were tubular? look like it came as a full kit i will see if i can find a picture again

    Thanks again for the answer back but someone must have more pics or dimensions for us not like its a first time conversion

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts


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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    That type of kit is made by GRP4 Fabrications < clicky

    That is chassis mounted not crossmember though.

    We could really use a 4age conversion area so we can get these types of things in one place lol.

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mk1_Deano View Post
    That type of kit is made by GRP4 Fabrications < clicky

    That is chassis mounted not crossmember though.

    We could really use a 4age conversion area so we can get these types of things in one place lol.
    O right i was looking at that and thought as much

    Yes we could as alot of people are full of question and not alot of answers

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mk1_Deano View Post
    I read this thread a while ago but you got me thinking so I held off from posting til i had something decent to say

    I'm picking up my 4age tomorrow so will start having a measure up to decide how best to mount it, anyone know how close ae86 mounts are to fitting?

    I was thinking of making an adapter plate to put between either crossflow or pinto engine mounts and the engine, but only an idea. Or weld the plates directly to crossflow mounts with a few modifications.

    Have you considered chassis mounting? Grp4 Fabrications do a kit specially for the 4age.

    Also the mounts you have seen, were they these?


    They are for mounting a 4age into a startlet, from dmb performance. Could work but dont fancy spending 250 euros and look easy enough to make No dimensions on them though.

    If not I'll have a think and do some sketches and measurements over the next few weeks if you can wait that long

    To be honest I've spent over 2 years researching the 4age conversion and the only mounts to a standard xmember i've seen are M11rf's and the only other decent pictures of the mounting is retro-ed's mk2 off driftworks but his was chassis mounted.

    The engine mounts seem the hardest part to find information for, for some reason....

    I think we could do with a seperate 4AGE conversion area in the technical section too
    Having looked at these, I think they may work on a escort too. Initial thinking is either 35 or 50mm h/d pinto rubbers from rally design on a standard crossmember. Think im gonna take a chance and buy these. Will let everybody know if they work
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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    250 Euros?

    WOW.... expensive!

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Woah, if your gonna get them, get the Techno Toy Tuning (T3) ones. They are both made by T3 but the first company, DMB, is obviously buying them and selling on for profit so go straight to T3, bout $160.
    Last edited by Mk1_Deano; 09-02-2011 at 23:35.

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mk1_Deano View Post
    Woah, if your gonna get them, get the Techno Toy Tuning (T3) ones. They are both made by T3 but the first company, DMB, is obviously buying them and selling on for profit so go straight to T3, bout $160.
    Thanks Dean. $160 is approx 100 so not too bad. I take it you have seen the MK1 Escort in Jamaica with a 4age in it. I was showing the pictures it to a mate. He seems to think he used a standard crossmember, pinto rubber mounts and AE86 steel mounts bolted to the block.
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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    I've seen a mk1 and also a mk2 in jamaica with 4age's but i've never really had clear info to how they did it just a few sketchy pics.

    Been thinking about the whole 4age to crossmember thing and reckon its possible with pinto rubbers and fabbed mounts like you, apparantly RAW do the engine plates so your halfway there so would just need bridge the gap.

    I've always been unsure of the ae86 mounts because they never seem to look like the correct angle when compared to pinto or xflow mounts, seem abit to flat. escort crossmember is almost vertical for mounts whereas the ae86 ones are almost horizontal.

    Got my engine on the stand last night so can get stuck in without breaking my back.

    Got a few ideas on the sump to

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mk1_Deano View Post
    I've seen a mk1 and also a mk2 in jamaica with 4age's but i've never really had clear info to how they did it just a few sketchy pics.

    Been thinking about the whole 4age to crossmember thing and reckon its possible with pinto rubbers and fabbed mounts like you, apparantly RAW do the engine plates so your halfway there so would just need bridge the gap.

    I've always been unsure of the ae86 mounts because they never seem to look like the correct angle when compared to pinto or xflow mounts, seem abit to flat. escort crossmember is almost vertical for mounts whereas the ae86 ones are almost horizontal.

    Got my engine on the stand last night so can get stuck in without breaking my back.

    Got a few ideas on the sump to
    Totally agree with the pinto rubbers m8. The reason I was thinking AE86 mounts was the bloke with 2 escorts in Thailand. There's a tread on here showing pics of the car and it being mounted on the crossmember. The crossmember looks standard, using AE86 rubber mounts (I think) and metal plates which I assumed was from a AE86 anyway. Also sump is front bowl. Cut just after the sump plug to clear the crossmember. Will find the link to it and post it shortly.

    Forgot to mention why I think the technotoytuning mounts would work. About 6 weeks ago, I was bidding on a 4age engine from a AE86 and T50 gearbox on ebay which would have been ideal for an escort swap (rear bowl sump etc) The seller had the same mounts on the block included in the sale and mentioned he was gonna put it in a escort. Maybe nothing but maybe he had the swap figured out already.
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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...(almost)/page3.

    By the far the best pics ive seen of a crossmember mounted 4age.
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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by bunta20v View Post
    Totally agree with the pinto rubbers m8. The reason I was thinking AE86 mounts was the bloke with 2 escorts in Thailand. There's a tread on here showing pics of the car and it being mounted on the crossmember. The crossmember looks standard, using AE86 rubber mounts (I think) and metal plates which I assumed was from a AE86 anyway. Also sump is front bowl. Cut just after the sump plug to clear the crossmember. Will find the link to it and post it shortly.

    Forgot to mention why I think the technotoytuning mounts would work. About 6 weeks ago, I was bidding on a 4age engine from a AE86 and T50 gearbox on ebay which would have been ideal for an escort swap (rear bowl sump etc) The seller had the same mounts on the block included in the sale and mentioned he was gonna put it in a escort. Maybe nothing but maybe he had the swap figured out already.
    Quote Originally Posted by bunta20v View Post
    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...(almost)/page3.

    By the far the best pics ive seen of a crossmember mounted 4age.
    Ah that would be M11rf's car. I had already been following his thread, his crossmember has been modified because each side is different, but a very tidy install

    Standard crossmember mounts in my car, standard 1100L for comparison, thought i'd grab a few snaps whilst down the workshop today sorting the daily driver and trying to unseize my dads mk1's brakes.






    A fair difference, which is why I was always unsure of this.

    Need to get my old engine out and the crossmember home to have better look at this because it will bust the biggest problem with this conversion.

    Btw 4AGE's never came with rear bowl sumps so must of been a custom one, but would have been ideal for ideas
    Last edited by Mk1_Deano; 13-02-2011 at 21:18.

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Just a note: My crossmemeber was not modified to accept the 4age, it had already been modified before the 4age went in for a Nissan Engine.

    In hindsight i should have told them to use the standard mounting position... but didnt think at the time...

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    I have now brought some chassis mounts ready to put the engine in looks like i have got to get welding and need to work out where the engine will sit cause i dont want to cut the bulkhead better start collecting a few more parts

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Are you Escort dudes just pulling the motor far enough forward so the front bowl sump clears the rack ?

    Or are you modifiying the sump ?

    Or have you not yet crossed that bridge yet ?

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts





    Makes the sump quite small, i actually removed the sump after this and added some "wings" to it, but i have never had a problem and the car has seen a fair bit of track/sideways action.

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by neilm View Post
    Are you Escort dudes just pulling the motor far enough forward so the front bowl sump clears the rack ?

    Or are you modifiying the sump ?

    Or have you not yet crossed that bridge yet ?
    My engine isnt in the bay yet because i'm waiting on some parts plus the old engine is still in atm, but aiming to run a custom rear bowl sump and modified oil pick up. I want the engine as far back without cutting the bullkhead.

    Only other options are modified like M11rf's with wings for compension of the reduced oil capacity or to cut, spin 180 degrees and reweld the sump to create a rear bowl, then modify the oil pick up to suit.

    I'd personally prefer the rear bowl because thats how i've always had it in my design.

    I guess the type of sump you run does to some extent depend on whether or not you crossmember or chassis mount, because the chassis mounts will move the engine back just that bit more reducing the size of the front bowl sump enough to just go with a rear bowl as it would make more sense.

    If you compare M11rf's and RetroEd's you can see me what i mean, M11rf is still running a front bowl and crossmember mounted, but RetroEd's mk2 is rear bowl and chassis mounted.

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mk1_Deano View Post
    Ah that would be M11rf's car. I had already been following his thread, his crossmember has been modified because each side is different, but a very tidy install

    Standard crossmember mounts in my car, standard 1100L for comparison, thought i'd grab a few snaps whilst down the workshop today sorting the daily driver and trying to unseize my dads mk1's brakes.






    A fair difference, which is why I was always unsure of this.

    Need to get my old engine out and the crossmember home to have better look at this because it will bust the biggest problem with this conversion.

    Btw 4AGE's never came with rear bowl sumps so must of been a custom one, but would have been ideal for ideas
    Just had a closer look at my crossmember and it's the same as yours where the standard mounts are pretty much vertical. Looks like back to the drawing board. Im now thinking to buy the chassis mount kit from GRP4 Fabrications as i know this will definately fit. Problem I have is the dizzy and water outlets at the back of the block so the engine will be mounted as close to the bulkhead without cutting if possible.

    Have a look at this page on rear bowl ideas. Hope it helps

    http://www.opel-kadett-c.co.uk/forum...0&t=6&start=40

    Im thinking a rear bowl conversion but will do whats needed to get it to work
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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by bunta20v View Post
    Just had a closer look at my crossmember and it's the same as yours where the standard mounts are pretty much vertical. Looks like back to the drawing board. Im now thinking to buy the chassis mount kit from GRP4 Fabrications as i know this will definately fit. Problem I have is the dizzy and water outlets at the back of the block so the engine will be mounted as close to the bulkhead without cutting if possible.

    Have a look at this page on rear bowl ideas. Hope it helps

    http://www.opel-kadett-c.co.uk/forum...0&t=6&start=40

    Im thinking a rear bowl conversion but will do whats needed to get it to work
    This is where the 20V becomes more problematic to install, the simple option and cheap option is to cut the bulkhead like RetroEd's Mk2 to cater for the water and dizzy, also allowing you to utilise the standard ecu. Very cheap method.

    If you dont want to cut the bulkhead, the engine may sit to far forward because its just one sensor and also the heater pipes that cause the major headache. If you could shift them, then you could gain an inch or two, and then the dizzy will sit tight to the bulkhead unless you relocate that to the front and there arnt many kits about that do this and they are reasonably expensive.

    Other option is to go full water relocation kit and standalone management to control the vvt, trigger wheels, coilpacks, new leads etc. and that seriously expensive in comparison to cutting the bulkhead, talking 1500 if not more on top of everything else just for those two items.

    You've still got the sump and mount issues, but then they are the same for every 4AGE install.

    For rear bowl sump, the oil pick up will need to be extended to the new location as well as the fabrication of the rear bowl.

    Your link showed some good engine to crossmember mounting on the first few pages incase you missed them.

    HTH

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Thought about this on the way home tonight bunta20v, it was something i missed earlier and had to look through my research to find it.
    One more option on the water side of things is to convert to 16V water pump. Have a read through the link below, by linking the rear water ways either internally as in the link or externally with a plate, which an example is on page 5 i think, you can convert it to ae86 parts. It could work out alot cheaper if you could knock up the blanking plates etc, and coolant lines will be standard AE86 positions because it use ae86 parts. One of the water relocation methods is also mentioned on there somewhere, the RS Chita kit.

    However if i remember the thread correctly, you have to use the 16v water pump which is slightly different to the 20v because it is taller and you will need to use an offset pulley to bring it back in alignment with the others. You also have to relocate the alternator to the standard 16v position, which is lower down on the same side using 16v parts.
    The other small thing about it is that the 20V water direction is the reverse of the 16V, it flows through the head first and then the block to keep the head cooler and inlet temps a tad lower, but with the 16V pump conversion, this flow is reversed and water flows through the block and then the head.

    Although this doesnt seem to be an issue on most 20V engines, i personally wouldnt be happy running the opposite to how toyota intended, they obviously did it for a reason in the first place.

    http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=1012&page=1
    Last edited by Mk1_Deano; 17-02-2011 at 02:29.

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    4age supercharged.

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...t+supercharged

    mounts i had made up on my 4agze install, its the same engine as 4age , cut the std engine mountings off, wlded up a bracket and 2jz engine mounts ,
    Last edited by hansgti; 17-02-2011 at 18:03. Reason: link

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mk1_Deano View Post
    This is where the 20V becomes more problematic to install, the simple option and cheap option is to cut the bulkhead like RetroEd's Mk2 to cater for the water and dizzy, also allowing you to utilise the standard ecu. Very cheap method.

    If you dont want to cut the bulkhead, the engine may sit to far forward because its just one sensor and also the heater pipes that cause the major headache. If you could shift them, then you could gain an inch or two, and then the dizzy will sit tight to the bulkhead unless you relocate that to the front and there arnt many kits about that do this and they are reasonably expensive.

    Other option is to go full water relocation kit and standalone management to control the vvt, trigger wheels, coilpacks, new leads etc. and that seriously expensive in comparison to cutting the bulkhead, talking 1500 if not more on top of everything else just for those two items.

    You've still got the sump and mount issues, but then they are the same for every 4AGE install.

    For rear bowl sump, the oil pick up will need to be extended to the new location as well as the fabrication of the rear bowl.

    Your link showed some good engine to crossmember mounting on the first few pages incase you missed them.

    HTH
    Ive done the deed and bought the chassis mount kit from GRP4 Fabrications. Best part of 100 but I know it will fit. Based on seeing the stick RetroEd gives his Escort while drifting then I know they are up to the job. One less headache to deal with.

    I will cut the bulkhead if needed but dont want to if i can get away with it. Gonna have to run water lines from the back of the block and use the standard ecu. 1500 for aftermarket stuff is simply not an option at the moment. Thats more than the engine itself.

    Never mind. If it was meant to be easy, everybody would have a 20v 4age in a Escort.
    RWD Escorts - Making the competition look like c**ts since 1968!

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    Re: 4AGE Engine mounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mk1_Deano View Post
    Thought about this on the way home tonight bunta20v, it was something i missed earlier and had to look through my research to find it.
    One more option on the water side of things is to convert to 16V water pump. Have a read through the link below, by linking the rear water ways either internally as in the link or externally with a plate, which an example is on page 5 i think, you can convert it to ae86 parts. It could work out alot cheaper if you could knock up the blanking plates etc, and coolant lines will be standard AE86 positions because it use ae86 parts. One of the water relocation methods is also mentioned on there somewhere, the RS Chita kit.

    However if i remember the thread correctly, you have to use the 16v water pump which is slightly different to the 20v because it is taller and you will need to use an offset pulley to bring it back in alignment with the others. You also have to relocate the alternator to the standard 16v position, which is lower down on the same side using 16v parts.
    The other small thing about it is that the 20V water direction is the reverse of the 16V, it flows through the head first and then the block to keep the head cooler and inlet temps a tad lower, but with the 16V pump conversion, this flow is reversed and water flows through the block and then the head.

    Although this doesnt seem to be an issue on most 20V engines, i personally wouldnt be happy running the opposite to how toyota intended, they obviously did it for a reason in the first place.

    http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=1012&page=1
    I agree m8. I want to run the engine the way Toyota done it. My project will be similar to how Retro-ed done his, just not using a T50 gearbox and using a type 9 instead. The plan was to spend approx 1600 - 1800 getting a 20v in the engine bay working including buying the engine. There a few products out there that can make the job easier such as dizzy and water relocation kits but they cost more than the engine itself.

    I've convinced myself nobody will mind me cutting the bulkhead on my 4 door ghia . If it was a RS2000 or Mex etc then it would never happen. I would rather spend 1800 and have a 4age 20v than spend 1800 on a tired 100 bhp pinto/crossflow that doesnt rev past 5k and needs a annual rebuild.
    RWD Escorts - Making the competition look like c**ts since 1968!

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