Pinto turbo bottom end build

[Turbo_crossflow]

Hi folks, got my pinto turbo in bits at the moment as just had the head rebuild with new bronze valve guides, new valves HD springs new standard cam etc etc. Head still standard efi never been skimmed.

I have been running standard 205 block efi in my sierra with megasquirt 2 with t28 turbo at about 0.9bar and car has been going well but could do with a rebore.

while its all in bits i’m looking for the best way to build a proper turbo spec bottom end to give scope for more power and have it mapped properly. Somewhere about the 250-300bhp mark would be plenty as long as i have a reliable bottom end.

I have been reading thru many threads on piston/rod combinations and getting confused with different methods of making things work, decking block to suit compression ratios, cosworth oil spray bars, rod heights etc and wondering whats the easiest route to take without too much machine work? I will need to go first oversize on the pistons as still on standard bores. Shells still standard and head and block also have never been skimmed.

Can anyone help with a shopping list of the best bits to use?

Cheers
Greg

[theduck]

I think you commented on my youtube video last night?

It is definitely easy to get confused, as there are 100 different ways to go about it, and building a pinto to make 250-300bhp ends up being about the same as builiding one to make 350-400bhp, just with different size turbo and injectors.

For my bottom end I ended up using cossie pistons, cossie length steel rods, cossie oil pump and spray bar. I used the pinto flywheel and crank and had the flywheel dowled to the crank and then the whole thing balanced.

Head I had a custom profile cam, big valves, had the head ported and a massive skim to get compression back up to something usable, around 8.25:1. So far have made 275bhp and 240lbft on my "low boost" settings, although we had wheelspin on the dyno. We did try the high boost setting for a laugh just to see what would happen and wheels started spinning at 3.5k rpm and 285lbft, but the troque was still climbing when it started to spin lol.

[Turbo_crossflow]

Yep that was me on youtube lol, been searching the whole of the net and getting a sore head.
I am in touch with brands hatch performance who can do me cossie pistons and steel rods. I’m guessing i’m going to have head skimmed same as urself to get compression back. Struggling to source cosworth oil spray bar too at the moment.

[theduck]

I got a refurbished cossie pump with spray bar off ebay, seems to be doing the trick. I bought a load of parts from brands hatch performance for mine, they were great.

[Turbo_crossflow]

Any idea who the ebay seller was mate?

Cheers

[theduck]

Just had a look, was cossiejon, not sure if he retails them or was just one he had done for himself though

[dt36]

I have a 205 block that I removed from my Escort last year. When I first bought my car 7 years ago it was running a turbo, but this was immediately put back to carbs. I built a 2.1 last year with a 202 block, as the compression was obviously low on the 205.
The 205 block ran fine before pulling it out, but was only giving me 125bhp on a Vulcan head.
I'm told that my 205 was a Turbo Technics build, but that was only word of mouth by the previous owner. I can in no way confirm this and it might be bullsh1t.
The pistons are down below the deck when at TDC, but there is no writing on them regarding make or sizeas they have been machined. I recently checked 1 big end as I am looking at getting a crank stroked, but it was 10 thou under.
If you're interested, I'm considering selling the crank, rods and pistons to pay for work on my other spare standard crank.
I'm away with work this week, but can get some pics and measurements on Friday.
Not sure on what this lot would be worth.
If you are looking at getting all new performance parts, then I totally understand.

[Turbo_crossflow]

Looking to go with new parts and have block bored to first oversize mate but thanks for the offer

[dt36]

Looking to go with new parts and have block bored to first oversize mate but thanks for the offer

No worries.

[Turbo_crossflow]

Parts ordered from brands hatch performance

[Turbo_crossflow]

Theduck,

What head gasket did you use?

[theduck]

Victor Reinz group a cossie head gasket, although there is debate over whether you are better off using the standard pinto victor reinz gasket

[Turbo_crossflow]

Thats the one i have been using before, ive ordered full pinto victor reinz gasket set, might just go with the standard one in the kit as read theres some waterways that dont match up with the cossie one. Ive kept my old group a gasket here so will compare again when pinto one arrives

Cheers

[Joe-Tait]

I think you commented on my youtube video last night?

It is definitely easy to get confused, as there are 100 different ways to go about it, and building a pinto to make 250-300bhp ends up being about the same as builiding one to make 350-400bhp, just with different size turbo and injectors.

For my bottom end I ended up using cossie pistons, cossie length steel rods, cossie oil pump and spray bar. I used the pinto flywheel and crank and had the flywheel dowled to the crank and then the whole thing balanced.

Head I had a custom profile cam, big valves, had the head ported and a massive skim to get compression back up to something usable, around 8.25:1. So far have made 275bhp and 240lbft on my "low boost" settings, although we had wheelspin on the dyno. We did try the high boost setting for a laugh just to see what would happen and wheels started spinning at 3.5k rpm and 285lbft, but the troque was still climbing when it started to spin lol.

Nice work, I was watching some of your videos the other night. What turbo and management are you using?

Keep the videos coming

[theduck]

Nice work, I was watching some of your videos the other night. What turbo and management are you using?

Keep the videos coming

Turbo started off as a TD04L-13T from a subaru impreza WRX, but we changed the compressor wheel and housing to 19T size. This has worked well, but really could do with the larger HL exhaust side or an external wastegate.

Management is Megasquirt 2.

Got a few bits happening this weekend that I am going to try and document but lots to do in not a lot of time. After that, all being well, will be a 600ish mile road trip

[OZMK1]

The easiest route by far is standard YB rods and pistons, 1.6L pinto head and a Cometic MLS head gasket. CR ended up at 9.1:1. Mine runs E85, 26psi with a GTX2860R Gen2 and it's up to 355hp at the wheels. Standard Sierra EFI manifold and throttle body.

[Joe-Tait]

The easiest route by far is standard YB rods and pistons, 1.6L pinto head and a Cometic MLS head gasket. CR ended up at 9.1:1. Mine runs E85, 26psi with a GTX2860R Gen2 and it's up to 355hp at the wheels. Standard Sierra EFI manifold and throttle body.

Class any pictures?

[theduck]

The easiest route by far is standard YB rods and pistons, 1.6L pinto head and a Cometic MLS head gasket. CR ended up at 9.1:1. Mine runs E85, 26psi with a GTX2860R Gen2 and it's up to 355hp at the wheels. Standard Sierra EFI manifold and throttle body.

Wish we had easy/affordable access to e85

[OZMK1]

[Erikmex]

Why not wire ring the block, thats what ive had done on my NA pinto for use with a Reinz gasket

[rallyrob]

Very nice ....

[theduck]

Why not wire ring the block, thats what ive had done on my NA pinto for use with a Reinz gasket

Shouldnt be needed. The group a reinz gasket is well proven up to 36psi

[Erikmex]

Ive had them blow in a NA Pinto with 11:1 static comp, i wire ring all my NA engines now over 10.5:1 for the low cost its worth it.

[Joe-Tait]

Attachment 84194Attachment 84195

Nice Job, Any intercooler recommendations that fit nicely infront of a standard escort big header type radiator

[OZMK1]

Thanks.
Joe I used the RADTEC Mk1 Mk2 escort YB radiator intercooler kit. I wouldn't mix and match different radiators or intercoolers. Best to use the complete kit

[Turbo_crossflow]

What work is done to the 1.6 head to get it to flow good etc?

[OZMK1]

Ported & larger valves, springs etc. Cross drilled cam 450 lift, 280 duration 115 lobe centres.

[katana]

Cross drilled cam

- that's a new one on me! Why would you as the cam has no internal oilways and has external oil fed bearings?

[Graham]

- that's a new one on me! Why would you as the cam has no internal oilways and has external oil fed bearings?

it give better lubrication, you dont run a stray bar as the cam is drilled down the centre and cross drilled to the lobe base circle, its an option when you buy cams from newman, the more radical bmw m10 cams are like it too.

[katana]

Lots of drilled holes in chill cast iron could potentially weaken the cam, also it makes the oil pathway more tortuous? At least with the spray bar it was direct off main gallery - this is off main gallery via cam bearing journal through cam centre to another couple of 90 deg turns to the follower face. And as cam is only half engine speed, so why cross drilled / twice the oil exit holes / half the potential flow / pressure? Sounds like a lot of work for very marginal gains, if any gains at all!

[rallyrob]

My original Holbay 4011C was cross-drilled, that was ground in about 87.
When Coltec ground me another to the same spec in the mid-2000's he wouldn't cross drill it as he said the blanks were too hard an killed the drill bits.

[Erikmex]

Lots of drilled holes in chill cast iron could potentially weaken the cam, also it makes the oil pathway more tortuous? At least with the spray bar it was direct off main gallery - this is off main gallery via cam bearing journal through cam centre to another couple of 90 deg turns to the follower face. And as cam is only half engine speed, so why cross drilled / twice the oil exit holes / half the potential flow / pressure? Sounds like a lot of work for very marginal gains, if any gains at all!

Worked really well, grp1 engines had cross drilled cams, flow is far more than a spray bar as spray bar holes are very small, cross drilling gives a better lubrication spread on the lobe/follower. No issue with wekaning the cams either, at the end of the day, cranks have galleries through them, its a very common mod but due to the increased flow of oil into the cam area most fit an additional external oil drain back to the sump and a splash shield inside the cam cover

[katana]

I fully understand the principle and know why its done in crank big ends - which is to redirect & slow the oil flow due to centrifugal forces - these don't exist in a camshaft. If increased oil flow is required to the spray bar why not modify that instead? For a 'common mod' i've never seen it once being advised as a required mod or cam shaft provider doing it in their products?

[Erikmex]

Its nothing to do with centrifugal forces inside and shell bearing housing, its for spread and even lubrication, anything that turns creates a centrifugal force btw....really, have you never seen cross drilled cams in a Pinto, it was the norm years ago, in fact i think when you order the old Gp1 Kent profile they are still supplied cross drilled, almost all grp1 pintos had cross drilled cams. Newman also, the biggest issue with spray bars was them blocking up, thats why cross drilling was seen to be more reliable.

[Turbo_crossflow]

Managed to source a spray bar on here so thats another thing off my list.
Hoping to get the block and head to machine shop tomorrow to have it bored for the o/s cossie pistons. Hoping they can work out what needs to be skimmed off the block and head to get the compression right.

The duck, do you know what was skimmed off your head and block?

I’m using jem engines in falkirk scotland who know their pintos but not sure how clued they are on this turbo setup

Cheers
Greg

[Forest_rallying]

I don't know what all the fuss is about with this cross drilling, most twin cams are just that. The idea to do that on a Pinto engine was first done in the 70's when oil lubrication was n't as good as it is today as was the cam and follower material. I remember fitting a cam kit in 1978 to a Cortina GXL supplied by a local Motor Factors and that had roller followers.

There was a company in the 80's either Manx Racing or Holbay that did roller bearings for the cam journals instead of the convensional bushes, again was it needed?

[theduck]

Managed to source a spray bar on here so thats another thing off my list.
Hoping to get the block and head to machine shop tomorrow to have it bored for the o/s cossie pistons. Hoping they can work out what needs to be skimmed off the block and head to get the compression right.

The duck, do you know what was skimmed off your head and block?

I’m using jem engines in falkirk scotland who know their pintos but not sure how clued they are on this turbo setup

Cheers
Greg

I dont mate, I know he measured the volume of the combustion chamber in the head and skimmed it until he got the volume he wanted to get the compression back where we wanted it. Dont think he had to skim the block, or if he did he only took a tiny bit off to make sure it was properly flat.

[Turbo_crossflow]

Thanks mate will see how i get on tomorrow ��

[dt36]

Have a play with this Android App to work out the engine capacity and cc etc.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...=cal.ratio.com

I used a similar App when building my last engine, but can't seem to find it now.

[Turbo_crossflow]

Ive sent the block in today to get it bored for the o/s cossie pistons.
I’m iphone so dont think i can get that app and dont really trust myself with numbers and these calculations lol. Need to get back in touch with brands hatch and find out what skimmings required