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Thread: Big Pinto power

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    Big Pinto power

    Hi everybody , i'm from France so sorry m'y english is not perfect . I do my best .

    I'm actually build a Ford escort mk1 for some hillclimb here in France , an looking for a N/A Pinto with some serious power .

    After talk with few engine builder in the uk , i have find that Vulcan can make 220 bhp out a a 2,2 litre engine , and Harris power house 240 bhp with the 2.2l . This number is just Amazing for us in France .

    Have you some feedback for me , is it reliable with that sort of power . Witch frequency for the rebuild and other think you know

    Thanks you !
    Patrick
    A Ford lover from France

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    Basic rule of engine modification the more removed from stock configuration the greater the potential unreliability - usually in an inverse squared proportion. You are looking for a 100% power increase in a NA engine - this is modifying virtually every part and pushing it to its limits. Therefore it will require careful care - gentle warm up / down, strict redlines / rev limits, decent fuels and lubricants etc. These won't be engines that can be flogged at the weekend, parked and then the same a month later, again and again. I'd expect the required higher compression to reduce ring life, high lift cams to reduce valve spring life etc. IMO a more modern 4V engine would be a better long term choice ie. a 2.3L Duratec should do that power with a lot less stress!

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    If you use the car just for hillclimb races, as those are not so long, your engine will last years before rebuild.
    it's often said that a BDG requires rebuild after 1600km of stages if I remember well.
    not only engine, gearbox and axle requires maintenance tasks too.

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    These figures get higher every year but on the lines of reliability, I'm under the assumption that with modern machining technics, reliability goes up along with bhp figures.

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    Quote Originally Posted by waverunner View Post
    These figures get higher every year but on the lines of reliability, I'm under the assumption that with modern machining technics, reliability goes up along with bhp figures.
    maybe a bit, oils are better so are gaskets, but cams are more aggressive and engines revved harder so i doubt theres much gain

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    The biggest step fwd is with lubrication and materials, so marginal reliability mechanically, however - the biggest advancement in improving reliability comes form modern electronics, ie. being able to fuel and ignition map an engine very accurately, this will always increase longevity...for obvious reasons.

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    The biggest step fwd is with lubrication and materials, so marginal reliability mechanically, however - the biggest advancement in improving reliability comes form modern electronics, ie. being able to fuel and ignition map an engine very accurately, this will always increase longevity...for obvious reasons.
    I think that can also be said with more modern engines too and that's why they do such big mileage with very little trouble. There'll always be exception to the rule with some engines.

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchRS View Post
    Hi everybody , i'm from France so sorry m'y english is not perfect . I do my best .

    I'm actually build a Ford escort mk1 for some hillclimb here in France , an looking for a N/A Pinto with some serious power .

    After talk with few engine builder in the uk , i have find that Vulcan can make 220 bhp out a a 2,2 litre engine , and Harris power house 240 bhp with the 2.2l . This number is just Amazing for us in France .

    Have you some feedback for me , is it reliable with that sort of power . Witch frequency for the rebuild and other think you know

    Thanks you !
    Patrick
    A Ford lover from France
    These Bhp numbers sound like VERY high to me. I'm willing to order direct if they are true.

    And fuel injection compared to Weber carburetors will not increase the Bhp top number at all. It can, if correct build up make the engine more flex in lower RPM when the engine is using very heavy cam profiles. But only of a lot of tuning has been put into it, not just reading Lambda and set the number right and not before you optimize the exact size of throttle bodies (and even then the marge is ver very thin). Same about programmed ignition compared to dizzy's. I'm talking about correct setup Webers and Ignition advance.

    If these engines are making this much power they must have better heads in the first place. Not possible to get 240 Bhp out of a 2,2 Ltr with only better tuning of fuel, ign. cams, exhaust etc... You run stuck a lot earlier.

    And I've also tried fuel injection on my best 2 ltr engine ever, tried everything and no gain at all compared to a simple set of 45 DCOE fitted with 38mm chokes. If you do know we can now make the same carburetor work even better, I don't think the fuel injection wil still be in the lead. We dit optimize the fuel injection (throttle body length, diameters, etc... very well at the time as the fuel injection map himself, and it was just it, no more gain)

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchRS View Post
    Hi everybody , i'm from France so sorry m'y english is not perfect . I do my best .

    I'm actually build a Ford escort mk1 for some hillclimb here in France , an looking for a N/A Pinto with some serious power .

    After talk with few engine builder in the uk , i have find that Vulcan can make 220 bhp out a a 2,2 litre engine , and Harris power house 240 bhp with the 2.2l . This number is just Amazing for us in France .

    Have you some feedback for me , is it reliable with that sort of power . Witch frequency for the rebuild and other think you know

    Thanks you !
    Patrick
    A Ford lover from France
    These Bhp numbers sound like VERY high to me. I'm willing to order direct if they are true.

    And fuel injection compared to Weber carburetors will not increase the Bhp top number at all. It can, if correct build up make the engine more flex in lower RPM when the engine is using very heavy cam profiles. But only of a lot of tuning has been put into it, not just reading Lambda and set the number right and not before you optimize the exact size of throttle bodies (and even then the marge is ver very thin). Same about programmed ignition compared to dizzy's. I'm talking about correct setup Webers and Ignition advance.

    If these engines are making this much power they must have better heads in the first place. Not possible to get 240 Bhp out of a 2,2 Ltr with only better tuning of fuel, ign. cams, exhaust etc... You run stuck a lot earlier.

    And I've also tried fuel injection on my best 2 ltr engine ever, tried everything and no gain at all compared to a simple set of 45 DCOE fitted with 38mm chokes. If you do know we can now make the same carburetor work even better, I don't think the fuel injection wil still be in the lead. We dit optimize the fuel injection (throttle body length, diameters, etc... very well at the time as the fuel injection map himself, and it was just it, no more gain)

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    Thanks everybody for you'r answer .

    I'd hard to believe for me but some professionnal engine builder told me that a 240 HP 2,2l Pinto with the right oil and warm up are very strong and there's nothing to check up for years. Maybe cause of the modern component , and thé right torque on the bolt
    I'm going to try and see what's happen

    A reason why i prefer a Big Pinto than a duratec or zetec is that i think it's will be more simple for me to but the engine out of the car cause you got just carbs , no electrical circuit , and it's will be more simple to open and fix or rebuild than a modern 16v.

    I will tell you how many HP come out after a run on the dyno in few months

    Thanks !

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    There are a few 2.2 - 2.4 full race engines around 240HP but they are very high spec, most powerful ive seen is the Connaught 260hp 2.4, but genrally 190hp is considered a fairly high spec clubman 2.0L Pinto with 220 or so from a 2.3

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    You should be very happy to find 190 Bhp from a 2 Ltr, and 210 from a 2,3 Ltr. Every Bhp on top of it will take a lot of attention. 240 Bhp, I don't think it can be build unless you got a lot of experiences.

    Modern 16V engine like Duratec are less complex than Pinto's for the same kind of Power and even more. A set of camshafts, 2x Weber DCOE and an ECU for ignition can transform this almost standard engine in a real fast device. You can even put distributor on it with a simple belt drive from the crankshaft. I'm currently building a Mazda MX5 1800cc (old engine), fitted Webers and distributor is driven by a belt from the end of the camshaft. Very simple and effective.

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    There are a few 2.2 - 2.4 full race engines around 240HP but they are very high spec, most powerful ive seen is the Connaught 260hp 2.4, but genrally 190hp is considered a fairly high spec clubman 2.0L Pinto with 220 or so from a 2.3
    I think you'll find Connaughts Dyno is approx 30bhp out unless you know different and have seen one of their engines on another tuners dyno. Their 2.0 Warrior, they are claiming 285 when everyone else's are 250 ish.

    I once read an article on another forum by someone with a lot more brains than me and he explained the physics of air flow on the cylinder head and his conclusion was that the cylinder head design would never give the power and torque figures that some engine builders are claiming however much it was modified. The larger cc got to a stage when they would only give more torque and at high rpm and little gain in bhp. This article was written by someone that did a lot of cylinder head work including Pinto's.

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    Who was that, i dont have much experience of Warrior 16v's but i do know a guy up here who competes in hillclimbs with one and it made 274hp (2.0) on a rolling road, never sure about dyno figures but i do know that Connaught make very competitive engines...against the likes of Smith & Jones who are known to make big power NA Cosssies

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    Re: Big Pinto power

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Who was that, i dont have much experience of Warrior 16v's but i do know a guy up here who competes in hillclimbs with one and it made 274hp (2.0) on a rolling road, never sure about dyno figures but i do know that Connaught make very competitive engines...against the likes of Smith & Jones who are known to make big power NA Cosssies
    David Baker was the blokes name that wrote the article, there are lots of articles written by him on the Net.
    Last edited by Forest_rallying; 03-08-2019 at 17:03.

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