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Thread: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

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    Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Hello,
    My cooling system start working at 92 water degrees.
    Is this temprature ok? or I have to change my sensor to lower temp?

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    Racer Decade Plus User RWD fords rule's Avatar

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Yes 92* is a bit too high, ideally around 80* is best for pinto's/xflows etc

    The fan switch I always use is intermotor 50090, m22 x 1.5mm thread, http://partfinder.smpeurope.com/?p=154
    It has a cut in temp of 85* and cut out at 80*, just about right for a std engine, fast road and rally race etc.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CITROEN-CX-LNA...item483384e3b1


    Use an 82* thermostat for a std or fast road engine, then use a modified mini 74* thermostat for rally/race, with all stats I drill a small hole though the outer ring, inside where the rubber seal sits, about 3 or 4mm in diameter, this acts as an air bleed to remove air from the system, and alo it allows some coolant to flow through the system before the stat starts to open, works very well.

    Regards
    Jason
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Where do you get the 82 degree thermostat and the mini 74 degree ones?
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    I get the 82* stat from burton power, and the 74* stat, just search "mini 74 thermostat" on ebay.co.uk

    Here is a few of them: http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_t...All-Categories

    The outside of the stat needs grinding down a little to fit the pinto but its an easy job.

    You could most likely use the 74* stat in a std or fast road engine, it just means it would take slightly longer to heat up, but will not want to overheat as the stat would be well open at 80 to 85*
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Got an 82 degree stat of the local motor factors today. Not sure what it is off but cost only a few euros.
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Part Number of Thermostat for QH is

    QTH371K or MTO371K

    Fitted to Early Focus and Fiesta.
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Here iis a list of intermotor switches with some different thread sizes:

    Part No. A/F Size Thread Temp °C

    50480 19 3/8" BSP Taper 50-46 N.C.C.
    50471 19 3/8" BSP Taper 77-74 N.C.C.
    50460 27 3/8" BSP Taper 90-85
    50370 27 3/8" BSP Taper 95-90
    50372 27 3/8" BSP Taper 100-95
    50010 25 3/8" x 18 NPTF 79-74
    50080 21 3/8" x 18 NPTF 88

    50172 22 M14 x 1.5 87-82
    50042 24 M14 x 1.5 90-85/98-93
    50041 22 M14 x 1.5 95-90
    50173 22 M14 x 1.5 100-95
    50040 22 M14 x 1.5 103-98

    50481 21 M16 x 1.5 50 OFF N.C.C.
    50475 17 M16 x 1.5 60 OFF N.C.C.
    50430 17 M16 x 1.5 85 ON
    50320 27 M16 x 1.5 85-80
    50420 21 M16 x 1.5 85-80
    50432 21 M16 x 1.5 85-80
    50476 17 M16 x 1.5 85-80 N.C.C.
    50300 27 M16 x 1.5 87-80
    50317 22 M16 x 1.5 87-82
    50321 22 M16 x 1.5 88-79
    50310 22 M16 x 1.5 88-86
    50301 22 M16 x 1.5 90-83
    50474 19 M16 x 1.5 90-83 N.C.C.
    50461 21 M16 x 1.5 90-85
    50421 21 M16 x 1.5 90-85
    50470 17 M16 x 1.5 90-85 N.C.C.
    50390 17 M16 x 1.5 90-85 N.C.C.
    50316 22 M16 x 1.5 92-82
    50330 22 M16 x 1.5 92-82
    50453 24 M16 x 1.5 92-85
    50315 22 M16 x 1.5 92-87
    50341 24 M16 x 1.5 92-87
    50342 24 M16 x 1.5 92-87
    50371 27 M16 x 1.5 92-87
    50373 24 M16 x 1.5 92-87
    50450 21 M16 x 1.5 92-87
    50340 29 M16 x 1.5 93-86
    50374 24 M16 x 1.5 93-88
    50479 17 M16 x 1.5 93-88 N.C.C.
    50332 22 M16 x 1.5 95-85
    50477 17 M16 x 1.5 95-88 N.C.C.
    50455 22 M16 x 1.5 95-90
    50454 22 M16 x 1.5 95-90
    50380 17 M16 x 1.5 97-92 N.C.C.
    50478 17 M16 x 1.5 98-91 N.C.C.
    50375 24 M16 x 1.5 98-93
    50472 17 M16 x 1.5 98-93 N.C.C.
    50473 17 M16 x 1.5 98-95 N.C.C.
    50431 17 M16 x 1.5 100-95
    50331 22 M16 x 1.5 102-97

    50100 29 M22 x 1.5 82-68
    50101 29 M22 x 1.5 84-79/88-83
    50250 29 M22 x 1.5 86-76
    50012 29 M22 x 1.5 86-77
    50090 29 M22 x 1.5 86-81
    50120 29 M22 x 1.5 88-79
    50295 29 M22 x 1.5 88-79
    50296 29 M22 x 1.5 88-79/110-102
    50271 29 M22 x 1.5 88-83
    50272 29 M22 x 1.5 88-83
    50275 29 M22 x 1.5 88-83
    50217 29 M22 x 1.5 88-83/92-87
    50091 29 M22 x 1.5 88-83/92-87
    50212 29 M22 x 1.5 88-83/92-87
    50213 29 M22 x 1.5 88-83/92-87
    50216 29 M22 x 1.5 88-83/92-87
    50221 29 M22 x 1.5 88-83/92-87
    50219 29 M22 x 1.5 88-83/92-97
    50240 29 M22 x 1.5 90-80
    50110 29 M22 x 1.5 92-82
    50111 29 M22 x 1.5 92-82
    50112 29 M22 x 1.5 92-82
    50113 29 M22 x 1.5 92-82/95-80
    50218 29 M22 x 1.5 92-82/97-92
    50170 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50200 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50210 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50211 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50220 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50230 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50231 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50235 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50260 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50270 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50280 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50281 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50285 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50290 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87
    50215 29 M22 x 1.5 92-87/97-92
    50011 29 M22 x 1.5 93-88
    50102 29 M22 x 1.5 93-88/97-92
    50035 29 M22 x 1.5 95-85/102-92
    50130 29 M22 x 1.5 95-86
    50030 29 M22 x 1.5 95-90
    50033 29 M22 x 1.5 95-90
    50061 29 M22 x 1.5 95-90
    50062 29 M22 x 1.5 95-90
    50160 29 M22 x 1.5 95-90
    50092 29 M22 x 1.5 95-90/100-95
    50174 29 M22 x 1.5 95-90/100-95
    50104 29 M22 x 1.5 97-92
    50282 29 M22 x 1.5 97-92
    50103 29 M22 x 1.5 97-92/101 -96
    50214 29 M22 x 1.5 97-92/102-97
    50190 29 M22 x 1.5 100-95
    50195 29 M22 x 1.5 100-95
    50196 29 M22 x 1.5 100-95
    50197 29 M22 x 1.5 100-95
    50198 29 M22 x 1.5 100-95/110-105
    50000 29 M22 x 1.5 103-98
    50013 29 M22 x 1.5 103-98
    50014 29 M22 x 1.5 103-98
    50191 29 M22 x 1.5 120-115


    For a competition car coolant temp warning light I am going to use 50455 M16 x 1.5 95-90 mounted in the pipe coming off the top of the water pump usually used for the heater, which is blocked off in most competition cars, have to make a small alloy fitting to screw the switch into + a short piece of pipe and 2 hose clips to hold it in place, another option may be to fit an M22 x 1.5 switch into the centre of the inlet manifold as Graham did with the Linford engine.

    That way in competion if the coolant temp gets to 95* or so the warning light would come on, we also use a 30 psi LMA oil pressure switch (part no LMA015/2) and a 1/4" NPT LMA T- piece in the block (part no LMA011) going to the second warning light in the dash, if either light ever comes on it will immediatly alert the driver.

    http://www.lmaperformance.com/Produc...ing_parts.html
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Could we have the list of fan switches made in to a sticky by any chance, it is really useful information
    http://escort.accelerator.org
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    brilliant thread

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    stickied

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Wondering what your pintos run at for regular suburban driving? I have a warm pinto in TC cortina as an everyday driver and i seem to sit around 90 and up to 95 after hills etc. Running electric fan with adjustable thermal switch. Its set so the fan comes on at 90 and the fan stays on constantly during stop start city type driving. Does this seem about normal?

    Aaron

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    That temp is a little too high for my linking, they only need to run at 80*C even slightly lower to run best, aim to have the fan come on at 85*C or so and off at 80*C, certainly no more than 90*C
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    I have a slight problem.....the sensor in the head for water temperature has packed up...there are apparently 4 different coloured replacements...each with different characteristics....white,red,black or green.....

    Does anyone know what I should use in a 2.1 Pinto......

    Many Thanks,

    Russ.

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Tbh I don't know which sender is suitable as there are so many to choose from, however if you wanted to fit a different gauge instead of the std ford one I have found a good temp gauge that comes with a new sender which will bolt straight into the pinto head in place of the old sensor, it works well

    As a bonus it only costs £15 lol

    http://www.nnctuning.net/carbon-fibr...ter-p-310.html


    They also have some other gauges here:

    http://www.nnctuning.net/advanced_se...=&inc_subcat=1

    Regards
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    I dont want to change the original part...

    Thanks,

    Russ.

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Quote Originally Posted by RWD fords rule View Post
    That temp is a little too high for my linking, they only need to run at 80*C even slightly lower to run best, aim to have the fan come on at 85*C or so and off at 80*C, certainly no more than 90*C
    Thanks ill adjust to get it coming in earlier. What else can be done to get it running a bit cooler apart from the obvious bigger radiator? My fan is 12" i think and cant fit larger.

    Aaron

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Fit either an 82* or a 74* thermostat as above with a 3 or 4mm hole just inside where the rubber ring seals, with your warmer climate you would probably be best off with the 74* mini stat, just grind the lip off the outside edge and drill the small hole.

    That will greatly help cooling, the more coolant flow through the engine the cooler it will run without spinning the water pump any faster than it normally does

    Water pumps can cause water cavitation (air bubbles forming in the water) when they are spun too fast, fitting a smaller crank pulley is popular for modified engines but std and fast road engines can use either a std or slightly smaller crank pulley, a smaller single vee pulley came on some of the early short stroke 1600 engines which is the best std pulley to use for modified high rpm engines revving up to 8000rpm or so

    Regards
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Took the car for a good run today, about 1.5 hours each way at 100kmh. Its a 4 speed and sits on about 3300 RPM in 4th at 100kph. Fan was on the whole time and car would not run under 95c and was at about 97 most of the time. Seems like i need to try to get this running cooler. Does the coolant quality make much difference?

    Aaron

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Did you change the thermostat? if the thermostat temp is too high and is not opening early enough that can cause the fan to run all the time, also are you sure your temperature gauge is accurate? in the past i have had trouble with gauges reading too high, then you think its running too hot

    Always use coolant instead of water, it has a higher boiling point, tried and tested
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Havent looked at the thermostat yet, will take it out tomorrow. After checking that ill fill it with some new coolant and see how i go.
    Temp gauge is new and im using the sensor it came with (elec) so i have no reason to think its wrong but i guess i cant be sure.

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    As I may have said before with your warmer climate I would certainly use a modified mini 74*C thermostat, the std one is 88* and is only full open at 100 to 102*C, where as the mini stat will open much sooner and you engine will run cooler, simply grind the outside diameter of the mini thermostat until it fits into the pinto thermostat housing, also remember to drill a 3 or 4mm hole in the outer ring just inside where the rubber ring seals

    http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_t...All-Categories
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Got the mini thermostat and some good quality coolant in today. Idles between 80-85 with fan on at about 83. Fan comes on for about 30 seconds and off for a few minutes. Already an iprovement from before. Will test drive tomorrow and report back. Drilled the 4mm hole as well.

    Aaron

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Good man, much more coolant is flowing through the engine now, the more flow the better, let us know how it goes on a long run, it should be perfect
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Took it for a run again today, same drive as last test, 1.5 hours each way at 100kmph 3300rpm in 4th. Temp sat on 80-82 the whole way there in the morning and about 84-85 the whole way home. Fan comes on at 85 and only came on a few times all day when stopped at lights etc.

    How do you work out the optimum temp an engine should run at? Can it run too cool? Does cooler temp gain better fuel economy?

    Aaron

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    80-85 is about ideal for normal useage, you might go a bit below 80 for a race engine where your after every last scrap of power, but your need to change the oil more often as fuel containiates will build up in it. best economy usually comes with hotter temps, but hotter temps also risk piniking/detonation

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    ^ whs ^
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    i have a question, my crossflow when in a hiway for lets say 20min, temp starts to go down just above the blue marking in the temp. Dash, is this too low?

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Std dash readings are very hard to judge by, you really need to know what temp in degrees C it is running at
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    same as jason says, but it sounds like you dont have a thermostat in it or one stuck open.

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    i have, maybe its stuck open.. thanks for the advice

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Link to coolant system modifications for a xflow engine: http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...94#post1781994
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    We have tried the trick RM suggested awhile ago here on the forum, that was to run a pipe from the heater outlet on the water pump to the back of the block - on the exhaust side of the block there is a plug u unscrew and then supply water into there. This helped our problem substantially

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Good to hear that, how much did it lower the temperature, was it something like 1 or 2 degrees C ?
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Does the water flow out of or into that extra hole on hte water pump?
    I would imagine it sucks in water as I am pretty sure it leads to the insside of the rotor, same as the bottom hose, so connecting this to the water fitting beside the rear cylinders would suck water from there and back into the pump, I can't see this being of any real benefit, it could also take away flow from the rest of the system

    Now if that pipe was sending water from the pump to the rear cylinders that would be a very good thing
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVader View Post
    This helped our problem substantially
    In what way?

    Just interested to know as this would be an easy upgrade
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

  40. #36
    Racer Decade Plus User DarthVader's Avatar

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    I'm not sure to be honest, one would could look at the pump to determine the flow direction. In my opinion I don't think it would make such a difference if it was sucking/pumping water, it just provides another quicker root to / from the pump. Sometimes these things don't need to make sense to work. It made about 5-8 deg diff.

    After this we did a smaller crank pulley to slow pump speed down and restrictor plate in thermostat housing, in total we managed to get average temp down from 102C to about 87C
    BTW this is on race motor

  41. #37
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Sounds good, what diameter restrictor did you use?
    I have seen people using these before, not sure what advantage they give but they are popular

    Did you do the extra water hose to back of block modification on its own at the time or in combination with other things aswel?

    That is a massive improvement in overal coolant temp

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    Jason
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    First the hose on it's own.

    The restrictor is the thermostat minus the diapram bit.

    I think the greatest improvement came from the smaller crank pulley, but this probably wont help on a road car.

    A friend of ours runs pretty much the same spec motor and cooling setup and he struggles to get temp to bellow 90C - only differance is we run oil cooler and does'nt

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  44. #39
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    What is considered too low a temp for a road car? I've just put a type 9 in my cortina so it now sits on about 77-78c on the highway at 100kmh in 5th. When i had the 4speed it was more like 82-85. This is with the 74 mini thermostat. Am i going to get better economy if i raise the temp?

  45. #40
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    Re: Pinto 2.0 water temperature

    Those temps sound perfect to me, I would leave it as is, I doubt you would see any difference in econemy with a higher water temp
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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