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Thread: pete a 2.2 200 and a bit bhp pinto

  1. #41
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    i'd still (and have) fit rods as if they were in an x/flow TBH i dont think it makes any difference

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  3. #42
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    right running a bit behind on the update front but heres a snippet,



    after a 0.060 skim the head now is 45cc giving a nats cock over 11:1 cr


    i've fitted a new centre cam bearing, i only fitted the one because its only the middle one that had any wear, still available from ford, its cheap at just 20 and being honest its about ten times better in quality than burtons repro ones, its quite strong and fits nice, you could almost fit it with nothing more than a hammer, where as most other brands i've fitted needed ultra care and possibly fettling afterwards.


    had a bit of an OMG moment earlier, when i realised this is the first pinto i've build which has oe valve guides and a cam that needs double valves springs, normally engine i use doubles on are drilled for guides and once drilled i have a tool to cut away the step around the guide, so needed to make something in a hurry out of nothing, i spent ages looking for bits, then remembered the gas welding kit i've just bought, the result wasnt pretty but it worked

  4. #43
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Good job with the spring base cutter, I use a tool very similar to that, an old hss drillbit ground as a cutter and welded to an 8mm shaft, then quench it in water after welding and it works great

    Nice work, this is going to be a very sweet torquey engine
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Nice work, this is going to be a very sweet torquey engine
    ta , i hope so cos thats what i set out to build!


    i've assembled the top end with light springs and set the tappets at 11 thou (too lazy to use an 10 and 12 feeler LOL! and got
    500,502,495 and 500 inlet lift and 512,515,515 and 512 exhaust, so were a fraction down on kents quoted 509 in, and up on the 495ex, the final figs will vary a bit when tappets are set with the proper springs and gauges, but it means geometry wise in well within the ball park, most likely the reason for the extra exhaust lift is that the exhaust valves are 38mm ones turned down so they are effectively longer than they should be as they now have fairly thick heads at the seat


    engineers blue on teh follower confirms geometry being good, cams wiping right in the middle of the pad


    looks like kent have modified their follower tips, last kent ones i used i had to grind the ears to miss the retainers

    you might notice i've had the manifold faces skimmed, its being a bit flash i know but on the exhaust side in particular the head faces do end up pretty distorted, the skim deffo helps in terms of manifold sealing



    a few inlet porting pics, the port appears to have a flat bottom, it doesnt i've just removed a lot of material from the bottom corners,





  6. #45
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post

    a few inlet porting pics, the port appears to have a flat bottom, it doesnt i've just removed a lot of material from the bottom corners,
    A good tip I would say for anyone porting a head with a sharp short turn radius.

    Great work as usual
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    i'd still (and have) fit rods as if they were in an x/flow TBH i dont think it makes any difference
    Isn't the hole supposed to squirt the oil to the thrust side of the bore. Therefore it should matter. But if the squirt is alltogether useless then it obviously does not matter.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post

    engineers blue on teh follower confirms geometry being good, cams wiping right in the middle of the pad


    looks like kent have modified their follower tips, last kent ones i used i had to grind the ears to miss the retainers
    That is interesting, with any of the std shape rockers and kent cams the cam wiping area is always very close to the edge towards the ball stud, where as you are getting around the .500" lift mark which is very good and the wear area is in the middle of the pad

    Certainly looks like kent have re designed their rockers

    Nice porting, you can get a very nice radius on hte short side turn with the injestion head
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  9. #48
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    i've just put the head together for real, the combination of the valve springs pulling the valves harder into the seats and leaving the tappets a couple of thou big has dropped the lift back a bit but were still on the right side of 485 so when run in were probably going to have 490, which TBH on a road car with a cam thats got decent duration is more than enough.

    the short side radius is deffo a real trade off though, the flatter the radius the greater the high lift flow the rounder it is the greater low/mid flow
    Last edited by Graham; 10-04-2011 at 13:13.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadsport View Post
    Isn't the hole supposed to squirt the oil to the thrust side of the bore. Therefore it should matter. But if the squirt is alltogether useless then it obviously does not matter.
    it cant matter that much after all it was ford that squirted the oil in both directions depending on the engine, the thing is if its squirting the oil at the cylinder walls the rings will soon distribute it all the way round the cylinders anyway when they try to scrape it off again, and if its actually squirting up into the piston and lubricating the pin and running down the skirt cooling it and onto the cylinder walls it doesnt matter which way it squirts anyway

  11. #50
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    its great having my daughter back from uni but not so good for getting stuff done!


    anyway, valve stem seals, std ones wont fit inside the inner springs,



    kents special seals are crap, they tend to pop off the guides


    best bet is to grind the lip off the std ones


    heads back together


    pistons in again, although i did have to pull them out again when i found a pin circlip on the bench, i was sure i'd fittted them all and i had, so it seams accralitte gave us an extra one, still if i haddentr checked you know there would of been one missing





    as with the last stroker pinto i did the oil pickup needed tweeking to clear no 2 and 3 bigend bolts, no mention of the oil pump cos thers nothing to say, it was in mint condition so i simply refitted it after cleaning it and packing the rotors with grease

  12. #51
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    right petes actually gone off to a new home, and i didnt get many pics before he went but i got a couple


    new crank gear, no techincal reason for it the old one was rusty, but they can and do wear giving inconsistent cam timing


    set of arp studs


    arps and a burtons ajusa head gasket, the nice thing about that combination is the gaskets really well located no danger of it overhanging a bore



    timing cam





    i used the degrees past tdc method which i've always done with pintos, as per usual i dialed it in one degree advanced,
    i then had did a lift on overlap check, the inlet had 124thou the exhaust 70 thou, 3/5th of 124 is 74 so assuming the valve lengths and lifts are about right i dont see any difference which method you use, personally i think the degree method is easier!

  13. #52
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Very nice, look forward to seeing it running soon then

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    its been running, unfortunatly it started to pressurise the cooling system on the rollers

    looks like i've found the culprit though




    i couldnt get it to show in the pics but it appears to run across the chamberwall and into the valve seat




    in this pic you can see a pit in the valve seat which obviously wasnt there when it was built, in the shadow you can see the crack heading for a waterway, it does show with the flash but by eye you can see they join up

    looks like just bad luck, the heads only had 0.050 off it, daves linford had more than twice that off it plus a ratio more compression, same arp stud kit, well i say the same, its not arp have changed the spec, and the set i used on this engine have a greater tenstile strength and are done up 10lbft more
    Last edited by Graham; 22-05-2011 at 17:41.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Bad luck there, it can be very hard to see hairline cracks I had this problem one time with an old 2.0 burton head, the only sure way is to pressure test the casting by bolting the ead to a block with a rubber gasket (I used some rubber from a spare mudflap roll) in between than seal off the hole at the front of the head and on the inlet manifold face, weld an air fitting on a flat plate at the front of the head' coat all the chambers and ports with washing up liquid + water solution and put about 40 to 60 psi in the water channel, if you see bubbles its fooked
    I'm not saying that crack was definitely there pre porting job but tbh I think the chances are it was

    I would try welding that with a proper cast filler rod that will stretch when cooling down instead of the crap nickel rods that will pull the cast iron apart, royal 44-30 is what you want, then pressure test afterwards, would save you from scraping that head

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    thats a shame , i would personally try welding it too,

    the important question though, was it coming across a strong engine on the rollers though before its started boiling?
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Hope its easily sorted chaps, i guess that all depends on whether it can be welded. My fingers are crossed for you

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    will it repair?
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    there is indeed even some disgussion as tio whether that is a crack at all rather as opposed to a scratch, a pressure test will prove, if its not i still have an issue in finding why its presurizing,

    if it is a crack i'll just prepare another head.

    it was too soon to say what the engine was going to be like, daves very cautious and shut things down quite early, so we only know that the 170bhp map in the ecu wasnt looking too far out.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    if u need a new head i got a standard 1.

    the bit i kept from that engine i gave u lol.

    let us know if u need it.
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    well heres the suprise its had 3 pressure tests including a hot one and its not leaking, so back to square one as to why its pressuring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    how many diffrent ways could it be pressurising??
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    if its not through the head it can only be through the block, headgasket or something weird like a circulation issue giving rise to localised boiling

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    dont be block lets hope thiers a tiny split in the HG
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Quote Originally Posted by caprimentle View Post
    dont be block lets hope thiers a tiny split in the HG
    the thing is after it started pressuriizing the engines owner changed the head gasket, and reported nothing looking wrong with the first one, i've seen the second one theres nowt wrong with that either!
    Last edited by Graham; 28-05-2011 at 13:24.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    warped block face maybe? i cant remember if you got it skimmed or not
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    both block and head have been skimmed

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    so whats left then, i suppose your gonna have to strip and pressure test the block now i take it....
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    COuld be a pin hole in one of the block bores, sometimes this happens between cylinders from a casting defect, that's where i would check first, after ruling out the head

    Btw if the block and head look perfect posting a few pics of the coolant system layout with header tank etc could be useful, I can usually spot problems quite easily
    Last edited by RWD fords rule; 28-05-2011 at 14:48.
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    dont have an pics but its an rs2000, so its as ford intend

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    So, what power do we all think this engine will make??
    Your guesses please gents
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    hmm , difficult one, its an unusal spec, 2.2, RL31, small bore 105 exhaust, i aimed more for lots of grunt than big power top end power, so i'll say 170bhp with a huge dollop of midrange, if it hasnt made that much it must need some more miles on it

    but secretly hope its nearer 180bhp

    i'll resist the temptation to ring dave and ask!
    Last edited by Graham; 10-09-2011 at 09:15.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    i'll resist the temptation to ring dave and ask!
    No cheating you!!!

    I'd like some other guesses before revealing the answer
    Come on, don't be shy
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    I will go with 180 and maybe more
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    i sense your happy ................ 183

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    176

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    well the inlet ports/troats are very similar to linford, if anything they should flow better as i've learnt a bit since i did linford, so the head should be capable of big numbers but it obviously hasnt got the full race cam or 12.1 cr that daves engine had so that will limit power somewhat as will a sensable bore exhaust and manifold, although an extra 200cc must be worth a bit.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    182 or there abouts
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    I do not know what is wrong with me but I'd love to put an engine like this to a P100.
    Graham can you tell me how much the offset crank grinding sets you back? And those disel rods look nice too. From which 1600diesel engine are they from?

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    offset grinding the crank is about 3 times the cost of a normal grind because its harder to do (not all crank grinding machines can) and instead of taking of .25mm from the ends your removing 3mm

    rods are from mk3 escort/ mk2 fiesta 1600 diesel,

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    245bhp lol..

    Is it on 45's? and what size chokes

    with 45's and 38mm chokes I'd be thinking 180 to 185bhp if its all dialed in really well, maybe a tad more if you are lucky

    RL31 is a nice cam, will have more than enough mid range torque

    Posting the bhp and torque figures with their rpm values would be interesting, a power graph would be best if you have it
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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